Astrostuff ... Gann from a different angle ...
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Gann May Beans : Looking at his letter on live angles Jan 18 1954 Saturn Geo is 8 deg Scorpio . Add the square gives 8 deg Aquarius and equals the 308 price for May Beans . Why does he pick this particular point in time( Jan 18th ) , is this a significant high or low in beans he uses as a zero point . I understand how he converts plannetary longitude to price but how does the timing componet fit in . If we break this example down further .
Saturn Geo 8 deg Scorpio is the equivalent of 218 in price
What was the price for May beans on 18th Jan 1954 .
90 deg in price from 218 equals 308 as Gann indicated but what about the timing componet .
Saturn Geo 8 deg Sorpio + 90 deg in time brings us out to 16th March 1962 seven years after Ganns death . will pick this up later
Saturn Geo 8 deg Scorpio is the equivalent of 218 in price
What was the price for May beans on 18th Jan 1954 .
90 deg in price from 218 equals 308 as Gann indicated but what about the timing componet .
Saturn Geo 8 deg Sorpio + 90 deg in time brings us out to 16th March 1962 seven years after Ganns death . will pick this up later
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Hi Gazelle,
Maybe, take a careful look at the ephemeris on 18011954, then consider
the other things, that Gann had to say about May Beans ... this will verify,
that "history repeats itself" and a lot more .....
..... and if you continue to expand the price/degree relationship, then the
same must also apply to time (ie time = price).
have a great day
paul
=====
Hello Yogi & Friends
Circle of 24
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Friends .By breaking the circle up into its proportionate divisions as Gann has instructed in his course we can see that every 15 deg is equivalent to 60 min in time and 1c in price . If we look at the four quarters we can see 90 degree is equivalent to 360 min in time and 6c . 180 deg is equivalent to 720 min and 12c in price . 270 deg is equivalent to 1080 mins in time and 18c . 360 deg is a complete revolution in time and equal to 24c .
Gann said to watch movements of 24c 48c and 72c from important high and low points so from an intraday perspective we have a precision timing componet that can be aligned with Civil Time . but this is where the questions start .
Gann placed a great deal of emphasis on identifying the correct starting point . The Incorporation date and the FTD are 0 deg points and from these two points we can run out 10 20 or 60 year cycles and sometimes when the primary and intermediate cycles move into harmonic alliance we might expect a turn in trend that can also be confirmed by other technical factors like range extensions or retracements .
The whell of 24 can be broken down further which confirms Ganns theory of A wheel within a wheel ( Ezekial ) as there are 1440 mins in a day and 1 deg is eqivalent to 4 mins but getting back to the Circle of 24 and the proper geometric application within the market . How does one determine the correct starting point in using this tool . Let us put forward a few scenarios and I would welcome any comment .
We might be looking at a Commodity which expires a 90 mth 10 year & 90 day cycle into 22nd April 2008 so with multiple time frame alignment moving into this date there is a resonable possibility that time will turn trend due to the harmonic magnitude of these convergent cycles . If the daily and hourly swing chart turns up and prints 1 - 3 higher lows we can position ourseleves in the prevailing direction of the trend but does this constitute the correct 0 deg starting point for our Circle of 24 . Let us say the Commodity makes a low price on this date at 12.00GMT . Expiry of primary and intermediate cycles on the same day into 12.00GMT . Is this our correct 0 deg point .
If we wanted to use The Circle of 24 as a short term positioning mechanism we could look for a reaction at 2.00 (30deg) 3.00 (45deg) 4.00 (240deg) 6.00 (180deg) but Commodities have set operational times like most Exchanges .
Time by degrees on daily charts is a clean cut application and we can assign 1 degree to one day ( 24hrs) as the Universal clock keeps ticking and doesnt take time off for weekends and or holidays .
So our Commodity has made low on 12.00GMT and the Exchange might operate from 12.00 - 6.00GMT ( 360 mins ) which only constitutes a quarter of one day ( 24 hours ) within this time the Commodity has moved 15 deg 30 deg 45 deg 60 deg 75 deg and 90 deg in time and The Exchange closes down at 6.00 right on our 90 deg point .
The earth continues its revolution at 15 deg an hour even when The Exchange shuts down as universal time is , well , universal ? so by the time 18 hours pass and The Echange opens back up for business the earth is 90 deg into its second 24 hour revolution so from a timing perspective we are 360 deg out from 12.00GMT 22nd April .
The other option is to see the low come in at 12.00 GMT 22nd April and move out 360 mins ( 12.00 - 6.00 ) when the exchange closes and then restart the next morning from where we left off , so on the 23rd April at 12.00GMT we are starting from 90 deg so effectively a circle of 24 could cover 4 six hour trading periods .
Confused , I am ?
Circle of 24
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Friends .By breaking the circle up into its proportionate divisions as Gann has instructed in his course we can see that every 15 deg is equivalent to 60 min in time and 1c in price . If we look at the four quarters we can see 90 degree is equivalent to 360 min in time and 6c . 180 deg is equivalent to 720 min and 12c in price . 270 deg is equivalent to 1080 mins in time and 18c . 360 deg is a complete revolution in time and equal to 24c .
Gann said to watch movements of 24c 48c and 72c from important high and low points so from an intraday perspective we have a precision timing componet that can be aligned with Civil Time . but this is where the questions start .
Gann placed a great deal of emphasis on identifying the correct starting point . The Incorporation date and the FTD are 0 deg points and from these two points we can run out 10 20 or 60 year cycles and sometimes when the primary and intermediate cycles move into harmonic alliance we might expect a turn in trend that can also be confirmed by other technical factors like range extensions or retracements .
The whell of 24 can be broken down further which confirms Ganns theory of A wheel within a wheel ( Ezekial ) as there are 1440 mins in a day and 1 deg is eqivalent to 4 mins but getting back to the Circle of 24 and the proper geometric application within the market . How does one determine the correct starting point in using this tool . Let us put forward a few scenarios and I would welcome any comment .
We might be looking at a Commodity which expires a 90 mth 10 year & 90 day cycle into 22nd April 2008 so with multiple time frame alignment moving into this date there is a resonable possibility that time will turn trend due to the harmonic magnitude of these convergent cycles . If the daily and hourly swing chart turns up and prints 1 - 3 higher lows we can position ourseleves in the prevailing direction of the trend but does this constitute the correct 0 deg starting point for our Circle of 24 . Let us say the Commodity makes a low price on this date at 12.00GMT . Expiry of primary and intermediate cycles on the same day into 12.00GMT . Is this our correct 0 deg point .
If we wanted to use The Circle of 24 as a short term positioning mechanism we could look for a reaction at 2.00 (30deg) 3.00 (45deg) 4.00 (240deg) 6.00 (180deg) but Commodities have set operational times like most Exchanges .
Time by degrees on daily charts is a clean cut application and we can assign 1 degree to one day ( 24hrs) as the Universal clock keeps ticking and doesnt take time off for weekends and or holidays .
So our Commodity has made low on 12.00GMT and the Exchange might operate from 12.00 - 6.00GMT ( 360 mins ) which only constitutes a quarter of one day ( 24 hours ) within this time the Commodity has moved 15 deg 30 deg 45 deg 60 deg 75 deg and 90 deg in time and The Exchange closes down at 6.00 right on our 90 deg point .
The earth continues its revolution at 15 deg an hour even when The Exchange shuts down as universal time is , well , universal ? so by the time 18 hours pass and The Echange opens back up for business the earth is 90 deg into its second 24 hour revolution so from a timing perspective we are 360 deg out from 12.00GMT 22nd April .
The other option is to see the low come in at 12.00 GMT 22nd April and move out 360 mins ( 12.00 - 6.00 ) when the exchange closes and then restart the next morning from where we left off , so on the 23rd April at 12.00GMT we are starting from 90 deg so effectively a circle of 24 could cover 4 six hour trading periods .
Confused , I am ?
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Hi Gazelle,
..... nice work !~!
Don't knock yourself out over incorporation dates, as they are really not
as important as FTDs ..... and FTDs are really important, as this date
gives the CORRECT starting point for the static SOLAR cycles, that
you mentioned ... ie ... 1 degree/day.
As you mentioned, the universal clock never stops ticking, but as markets
close, the price will often rally/fall just before the close, pre-empting the
closed market OR it will play rally/fall, at the next open, after the market
shutdown.
For example, later this week, we have a holiday in Oz for Anzac Day, but
on that day we are expecting positive news to be released for BHP. Now,
that may well happen on overseas markets, and we will be left to play
catchup on Monday, 28042008.
Looking at the universal clock, it can be applied to all trading time-frames:
Ps 90:4 For a thousand years in your sight are like a day,
that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
Outside of SOLAR cycles, there are other "hot points", that may be found
on the dial of EVERY market and this includes, the correct starting point
for the universal clock ..... using BHP again, we should see another
positive move on 08-09052008 and again on 14-15052008, but we are
expecting a difficult, aspect to come into play, on 16052008 .....
..... on 08-10062008 we see "God's Finger" on BHP, so this period should
be significant, too.
ALL of this can be readily taken from an ephemeris, if we know those
"hot points" ..... another example from, BHP will be around 09072008, when
some especially significant (and negative?) news should be evident and
could well be triggered by the waxing moon, on 10072008.
So, static time SOLAR time cycles, taken from the FTD is one valid way of
using the universal clock, but there are at least 9 other planets (and their cycles) to consider.
Looking at the DOW as another example, we can expect positive news
on 25042008 (Anzac Day for us), so on many 28042008, our market will
play catchup again, dependent upon what happens on Thursday and Friday
nights, in USA.
Looking further out, DOW on 05-06052008 should bring positive sentiment,
with another dose on Tuesday 13052008 ..... and 05-06062008, we see
another "God's Finger", triggered by the moon, probably in late trading, on
05062008 (?)
All of this can be EASILY derived from the universal clock and an ephemeris.
Fine-tuning of the process for intraday trading may be done, using the
live angles, across the hot points, to pinpoint anticipated market reversals
and breakouts ..... Solarfire is especially good for this type of analysis, as
the dynamic clock can be tuned to the nearest second, if necessary ... and
all sensitive points may be identified, BEFORE the market opens ... !~!
have a great day
paul
=====
Thanks Yogi , I hope everything is going well for you .
Incorporation dates can be tricky . when Gann was using the ftd and inc date on US Steel in 1901 it was only a few years old . The problem with alot of stocks in particular is the accuracy of the original date of incorporation . Stocks that have been around for 40 or more years might have underwent name or structural changes , sharesplits etc so tracking A company back to its original inc date is difficult especially if you are incorporating Pythagorean numerology into your analysis .Different names will have diiferent numerical values so your idea of using the ftd seems like way to go . There are some examples like IBM that remained the same since the 1940s but they are hard to find . From recollection Nab original date of incorporation is 1896 and its first trade ( from recollection ) is 1962 so there is a huge gap in application .
I will look at some of your dates tonight
Incorporation dates can be tricky . when Gann was using the ftd and inc date on US Steel in 1901 it was only a few years old . The problem with alot of stocks in particular is the accuracy of the original date of incorporation . Stocks that have been around for 40 or more years might have underwent name or structural changes , sharesplits etc so tracking A company back to its original inc date is difficult especially if you are incorporating Pythagorean numerology into your analysis .Different names will have diiferent numerical values so your idea of using the ftd seems like way to go . There are some examples like IBM that remained the same since the 1940s but they are hard to find . From recollection Nab original date of incorporation is 1896 and its first trade ( from recollection ) is 1962 so there is a huge gap in application .
I will look at some of your dates tonight
Yogi , Send me an email at pioneer13@iprimus.com.au and we can continue our discussions offline . I will write your email address down this time and be careful not to loose it .
Regards Gazelle
Regards Gazelle
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Hi folks,
Some simple, but interesting stuff for commodity traders from Kleinman,
reminding us of the disconnect, between the reality of market news
and the madness of the crowds. He says:
" In 1928, the great trader W.D. Gann made the following observation:
The history of the world shows that there never has been a time when there was a great demand for anything, whether it be a product of the mine, factory or farm, that sooner or later a supply in excess of that demand did not develop. This is but a natural law."
... and on the recent parabolic rise in spring wheat:
" There are three major lessons a trader can learn from this.
1. Never fight the adage "the trend is your friend." This is especially true during major uptrends. Who could have forecast oil at $119 per barrel a few months ago? Top picking this one has been expensive for the short seller.
2. Its not the news but how the market reacts to the news thats important. Certainly its the news that sets the public perception, but you must be alert for divergences between the news and market action. It all has to do with expectation versus reality.
Look for the divergence between whats happening and what people think is supposed to happen. When the big turn comes, the general public will always be looking the wrong way. There are certain ways to analyze reactions to news (or even a lack of news).
Moves of importance invariably tend to begin before theres any news to justify the initial price move. Once the move is underway, the emerging fundamentals will slowly come to light. A big rally (decline) on no news is almost always very bullish (bearish).
Its generally not good practice to buy after a lot of very bullish news or sell after an extremely bearish report because both good and bad news are often already discounted in price.
3. Markets like this nearly always seem to top out in the same way. When close to the end of a major move, markets become wild. Volume is huge, activity is feverish and erratic, and the imagination of most traders blossoms. If youve had the vision to ride the trend to this point, your payday has come.
However, in extreme markets, men and women of reason lose all sense of proportion. They start to believe the propaganda that the world has literally run out of this or that, but it never happens. In the late 1970s, the Hunt Brothers ran silver from $5 an ounce to more than $50. They felt it would go up forever but forgot at some price Grandmas silver candlesticks come out of the cupboard and drop into the smelter.
The richest men in the world (at that time) lost all sense of reason and proportion--and $2 billion in the process. Rice traders: Take heed, and remember what Gann told us. "The history of the world has shown that there has never been a time when there was a great demand for anything that a supply in excess of demand didnt develop."
Full article, available at:
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20080428/can-you-profit-from-the-rice-shortage.htm
have a great day
paul
=====
Trembling Hand
Can be found on the bid
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So which of these two statements are correct as they appear to be two differing market cliche. Or is it a matter of picking your cliche for the times
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Hi folks,
XAO/XJO ... figuring on some nasty falls, around the end of this week,
... especially 0606-09062008, as 3 significant and negative cycles
come into play for XJO ...
have a great day
paul
=====
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Hi folks,
XAO/XJO ... figuring on some nasty falls, around the end of this week,
... especially 0606-09062008, as 3 significant and negative cycles
come into play for XJO ...
have a great day
paul
=====
Hi folks,
As per post above, some nasty stuff expected early next week,
after the US markets posted significant falls on Friday:
Index ................................ Current Price ... Change
Dow Jones Industrial Average 12,209.81 ... -394.64
NASDAQ Composite ................. 2,474.56 ..... -75.38
S&P 500 .................................. 1,360.68 ...... -43.37
have a great weekend
paul
=====
tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
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Hi folks,
XAO/XJO ... figuring on some nasty falls, around the end of this week,
... especially 0606-09062008, as 3 significant and negative cycles
come into play for XJO ...
have a great day
paul
=====
Gotta give you that call.
Yeh I know youve had a few.
I also know like any other analyst you are prove both correct and incorrect.
Bronte
Trading The SPI for 20+ years
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Very well done Trader Paul
Hi folks,
XAO/XJO ... figuring on some nasty falls, around the end of this week,
... especially 0606-09062008, as 3 significant and negative cycles
come into play for XJO ...
have a great day
paul
=====
You are an asset to many forums.
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Sorry to interrupt this thread.... but is this Gann/Nostradamus stuff for real? I must say I am interested in this 'astro stuff', but highly sceptical... as I have seen a few posters before me are too. Admittedly I haven't read through the whole thread as it's been going for a while now.
I recently went to a Safety In the Market information seminar where they teach you the principles of Gann in their courses. But, like Gann himself, they seem to be making a lot of money off the courses and books on the side. Hmm. Then I read "Gann's son alleged that many of Gann's claims were fraudulent". However, he did make his money somehow... same with this founder of SITM, David Bowden.
But at the end of the day, have any of you made $$ by using Gann's system? Did anyone predict the rise in oil, coal, and interest in CSG and the respective companies at a specific date? Or did anyone using Gann's techniques predict FMG would sky rocket? I would be interested to know if these techniques can be applied in such a way.
Thanks in advance
Neutral
I recently went to a Safety In the Market information seminar where they teach you the principles of Gann in their courses. But, like Gann himself, they seem to be making a lot of money off the courses and books on the side. Hmm. Then I read "Gann's son alleged that many of Gann's claims were fraudulent". However, he did make his money somehow... same with this founder of SITM, David Bowden.
But at the end of the day, have any of you made $$ by using Gann's system? Did anyone predict the rise in oil, coal, and interest in CSG and the respective companies at a specific date? Or did anyone using Gann's techniques predict FMG would sky rocket? I would be interested to know if these techniques can be applied in such a way.
Thanks in advance
Neutral
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Hi Neutral,
Since you joined this forum in March, you may have missed our
Annual Forecast 2008, posted in early January 2008 ... it is
attached here again, for your convenience ...
..... and to answer your question, you will notice near the top of
the first page of that outlook:
"Coal miners and underground miners, in particular should shine,
in 2008 ... "
Read it through and decide for yourself, at the end of 2008 ...
have a great day
paul
P.S. ..... and if you would like to choose ANY ASX-listed stock, we will do some astroanalysis
on it for whatever period ahead, that you may wish ... just so that, you may watch it unfold
and use it to complement your own technical analysis ... !~!
=====
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Hi Neutral,
..... and to answer your question further, Gann's astrostuff is also a great
way to analyze IPOs, as well !~!
In fact, AAL is another junior coal miner, due to list on 10072008 and
our astroanalysis shows us these positive cycle for July 2008:
10072008 ... should be good support on listing
15-16072008 ... positive spotlight on AAL ...
23-24072008 ... positive news expected here
31072008 ... minor and positive (intraday)
Now, let's see the fundamentalists, wavepickers or other techies give you
similar dates for anticipated moves, before the stock is even listed ... !~!
have a great day
paul
=====
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Hi Rapt88,
SPI ... some time cycles, ahead:
15072008 ..... minor and positive (intraday only)
17072008 ..... minor and positive (intraday only)
21072008 ..... difficult cycle = negative sentiment ... ???
(21-29072008 may be particularly negative for DOW = DJIA)
25072008 ..... positive time cycle
28-29072008 ..... 2 significant and negative cycles here
04082008 ..... positive news here
08082008 ..... positive spotlight on XJO
19-20082008 ..... 2 significant and negative time cycles here
08-09092008 ..... negative spotlight on XJO
11-12092008 ..... 3 positive time cycles here .....
2909-07102008 ..... DOW likely to be strongly negative here
have a great day
paul
=====
>Apocalypto<
20.03.2012
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Hi Rapt88,
SPI ... some time cycles, ahead:
15072008 ..... minor and positive (intraday only)
17072008 ..... minor and positive (intraday only)
21072008 ..... difficult cycle = negative sentiment ... ???
(21-29072008 may be particularly negative for DOW = DJIA)
25072008 ..... positive time cycle
28-29072008 ..... 2 significant and negative cycles here
04082008 ..... positive news here
08082008 ..... positive spotlight on XJO
19-20082008 ..... 2 significant and negative time cycles here
08-09092008 ..... negative spotlight on XJO
11-12092008 ..... 3 positive time cycles here .....
2909-07102008 ..... DOW likely to be strongly negative here
have a great day
paul
=====
Trader Paul,
Are you trading a live account yet or still on demo in competitions?