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ASF spelling and grammar lessons

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johenmo said:
When the deplorable practices become so widespread that they become the norm (amongst the majority) then the language has been proven to have evolved. Before that it is evolving - the example given becoming more widespread.
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"ink" instead of "ing" and "ff" instead of "th" have not become the norm - far from it - and they are not part of a regional dialect. They are used by people scattered throughout our society who are too ignorant or too lazy to speak properly. I don't see them as becoming an accepted part of our changing language because they have not "evolved" to be any more acceptable now than they were 100 years ago. (I remember my grandmother expressing her abhorrence at such utterances.)
 
Logique said:
Hi Ruby, that's the one thing I hold against gays, they've pinched a perfectly good adjective and made it an exclusive-usage noun.
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Oh, I do agree!

On another subject, the evolution of compound words has been interesting. Printout, logoff, kickoff, flowchart, backup, website, roadmap, pricetag, healthcare, cellphone.
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Yes, wonderful examples of how language changes to suit our changing society.
 
MrBurns said:
Winston Churchill was once asked about his position on whisky.
Here's how he answered:

"If you mean whisky, the devil's brew, the poison scourge, the bloody
monster that defiles innocence, dethrones reason, destroys the home,
creates misery and poverty, yea, literally takes the bread from the
mouths of little children; if you mean that evil drink that topples
men and women from the pinnacles of righteous and gracious living into
the bottomless pit of degradation, shame, despair, helplessness, and
hopelessness, then, my friend, I am opposed to it with every fiber of
my being."

"However, if by whisky you mean the oil of conversation, the
philosophic wine, the elixir of life, the ale that is consumed when
good fellows get together, that puts a song in their hearts and the
warm glow of contentment in their eyes; if you mean good cheer, the
stimulating sip that puts a little spring in the step of an elderly
gentleman on a frosty morning; if you mean that drink that enables man
to magnify his joy, and to forget life's great tragedies and
heartbreaks and sorrow; if you mean that drink the sale of which pours
into our treasuries untold millions of pounds each year, that provides
tender care for our little crippled children, our blind, our deaf, our
dumb , our pitifully aged and infirm, to build the finest highways,
hospitals, universities, and community colleges in this nation, then
my friend, I am absolutely, unequivocally in favor of it.
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Great quote Mr Burns
 
Ruby said:
... have not "evolved" to be any more acceptable ...
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Acceptable to whom? Obviously not you. Please don't hinge our discussion on this specific example. It was raised as an annoying trait which is spreading. I would hazard a guess this particular example is partly spreading because people move. And being ignorant of a currently accepted pronunciation does not prevent an incorrect pronunciation becoming a norm - which is what has happened for lots of words.

Saying thwee instead of three is more London cockney than broad cockney. Rogalinski (2011) claims that features of the cockney accent have become standard. And this is what I was saying - that over time language changes by things coming in and dropping, wheteher they are right/acceptable or not.

It is Received Pronunciation that is considered the model (think BBC english).

There are many causes of language change - borrowing of words from foreign languages, cultural environment, principle of least effort (e.g. going to becomes gonna) and more.

Consider this from David Rosewarne (linguistics lecturer), who originated the term Estuary English in 1984: "It is interesting to speculate on the future of "Estuary English". In the long run it may influence the speech of all but the linguistically most isolated, among the highest and lowest socio-economic groups. Both could become linguistically conservative minorities. The highest may endeavour to retain their chosen variety of speech and the lowest their unmodified regional accents. The majority may be composed of speakers of "Estuary English" and those for whom it may form part of their pronunciation. The latter group might use certain features of "Estuary English" in combination with elements of whatever their regional speech might be.

For many, RP has long served to disguise origins. "Estuary English" may now be taking over this function. For large and influential sections of the young, the new model for general imitation may already be "Estuary English", which may become the RP of the future."
 
johenmo said:
Acceptable to whom? Obviously not you. Please don't hinge our discussion on this specific example. It was raised as an annoying trait which is spreading.
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You keep saying this. It's absolutely not something I've experienced and obviously neither has Ruby.
Perhaps it relates to your environment for some reason.
I cannot remember the last time I heard anyone at all pronounce the ending "ing" as "ink".
It would be at least two decades ago.
 
NINE years after her three children were murdered and their bodies dumped in a hot spa, Shirley Singh had "horrible visions" as a Queensland jury delivered guilty verdicts against Massimo "Max" Sica.

Defiant to the end of Queensland's longest criminal trial, Sica, the former boyfriend of Mrs Singh's daughter Neelma, said from the dock: "I didn't kill no one."
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I'd give him life for his assault on the English language.
 
johenmo said:
"Estuary English" may now be taking over this function. For large and influential sections of the young, the new model for general imitation may already be "Estuary English", which may become the RP of the future."
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Please God, no!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Julia said:
I cannot remember the last time I heard anyone at all pronounce the ending "ing" as "ink".
It would be at least two decades ago.
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The last time i heard that was having a few beers with my mate in Australia...he doesn't actually say 'nothing'...he says noth-ink.

Perhaps its the crowd you hang around with Juila...:rolleyes:

CanOz
 
CanOz said:
The last time i heard that was having a few beers with my mate in Australia...he doesn't actually say 'nothing'...he says noth-ink.

Perhaps its the crowd you hang around with Juila...:rolleyes:

CanOz
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Undoubtedly true, thank goodness. The day I start hanging around with people who attach "ink" to the "ing" endings of words will be the day I've lost my marbles.

At the same time, I talk to shop assistants etc, and happen to live in a regional town where education levels are probably lower than in many parts of Australia, and I have still not heard this egregious assault on the language.
 
What is the problem with the use of apostrophes?
We have articulate people on this forum who misuse them.
eg the lack of an apostrophe as in "your" instead of "you're" (short for "you are".)
"Your" relates to e.g. your book as in the book belonging to you.

And then there are all the gratuitous and totally inappropriate apostrophes inserted into words which should just have an 's' added to denote the plural:
We see "ratio's" "Portfolio's". If it's more than one ratio, then it's simply ratios. Nothing to do with the use of the possessive apostrophe.

I feel almost obliged to apologise for being what some will call picky. But reading this day after day over months finally gets to me.
 
How is it lazy or a typo to insert a redundant and inappropriate apostrophe?

(I knew I'd regret making that post.)
 
I don't usually re-read my posts when I type them. So you basically get a stream coming straight out of my brain, which unfortunately will include typos and the "your", "you're" mistake.

Who and whom is a big one for me. I get that muddled up all the time. I really need to learn my objects and subjects!
 
Julia said:
........egregious.......
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This is only the second time I have seen/heard this word used. The first time was in "Pirates of the Caribean" when Captian Jack Sparrow provided the correct enunciation to a harlot in Tortega. I had to look it up. Today the meaning has taken on a negative connotation where originaly it could be used in a complementary manner.

You learn something every day. (apologies for any spelling errors.) :)
 
I'm noticing a lot of grammatical errors now alarmingly on TV news, weather reports, finance reports etc , this if let to continue will corrupt the language completely.
 
Julia said:
How is it lazy or a typo to insert a redundant and inappropriate apostrophe?

(I knew I'd regret making that post.)
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I'm with you Julia, so don't have any regrets about your post! What is even more amazing (and irritating) is seeing a sentence like this: "I sent the photo's to my friends." If one plural requires the apostrophe, why not the other? It is not even logical. And yet if I point it out I am met with blank stares. I think we have a moral obligation to attempt to uphold standards in spelling and grammar.
 
Ruby said:
I think we have a moral obligation to attempt to uphold standards in spelling and grammar.
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It's a lost cause Ruby. English grammar is not taught in schools any more and it's not likely to be. The present generation of teachers is woefully ignorant in English grammar, and couldn't teach it even if it was in the syllabus.
 
Ruby said:
I'm with you Julia, so don't have any regrets about your post! What is even more amazing (and irritating) is seeing a sentence like this: "I sent the photo's to my friends." If one plural requires the apostrophe, why not the other? It is not even logical. And yet if I point it out I am met with blank stares. I think we have a moral obligation to attempt to uphold standards in spelling and grammar.
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Ah, bless you, Ruby, for the encouragement. The woeful standards are so widespread that I feel almost guilty on the rare occasions I take issue with grammar or punctuation. The accusation of 'grammar/spelling nazi' is not uncommon. It would be easy to point out at least twenty grammatical or punctuation errors every day on this forum, even by quite eloquent posters, but better to bite the tongue for the sake of peace.

Calliope said:
It's a lost cause Ruby. English grammar is not taught in schools any more and it's not likely to be. The present generation of teachers is woefully ignorant in English grammar, and couldn't teach it even if it was in the syllabus.
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No, Calliope. Please let's not give up.
 
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