ASF spelling and grammar lessons

wayneL · 10 October 2007

Here's a punctuation question.

One thing I do remember hearing in English at school, (one of the few times I was actually listening) is that a comma should never precede the word "and".

e.g. I went to the pub, and proceeded to get as drunk as a skunk.

In the above example, the comma is obviously incorrect. However in some sentences, a comma seems to make sense before "and", and I often insert the comma at that point, such as this sentence.

Is this incorrect?

moneymajix · 10 October 2007

Big

You are perfect.

Goes without saying.

:grinsking:

Even your imperfections are perfect.

Joe Blow · 10 October 2007

2020hindsight said:
Joe
I think it should be:

Fred went to the shop and bought some bread, milk and potatoes, and decided to give the pack of cigarettes a bit miss!.

oops
or is that
cigarettes a bit miss! (?)

2020, you have brought up another one of my pet hates: those who use both an exclamation mark (or a question mark) and a full stop at the end of a sentence.

I do not understand why people do this. A question mark or an exclamation mark takes the place of a full stop.

rederob · 10 October 2007

Wayne
Below is a good example of when a question is more a command, and should end in a period, not a question mark.

Lets try a little punctuation, shall we?

Indeed, two errors in the quoted sentence.
Proof reading will only pick up what we know to be erroneous.

wayneL · 10 October 2007

rederob said:
Wayne
Below is a good example of when a question is more a command, and should end in a period, not a question mark.
Indeed, two errors in the quoted sentence.
Proof reading will only pick up what we know to be erroneous.

Do you think so?

The sentence invites others to participate in a discussion on punctuation. Surely this warrants a question mark, in fact somebody would have certainly picked up the absence of the same.

No, I think the question mark is correct.

Joe Blow · 10 October 2007

I concede that the "Lets" in that sentence should have been "Let's" as in "Let us".

My mistake.

rub92me · 10 October 2007

wayneL said:
Here's a punctuation question.

One thing I do remember hearing in English at school, (one of the few times I was actually listening) is that a comma should never precede the word "and".

e.g. I went to the pub, and proceeded to get as drunk as a skunk.

In the above example, the comma is obviously incorrect. However in some sentences, a comma seems to make sense before "and", and I often insert the comma at that point, such as this sentence.

Is this incorrect?

If I remember correctly, the rule you are referring to is followed in 'American English' spelling, but not an offence in English spelling. I'm neither English nor American though, so I could be wrong.

2020hindsight · 10 October 2007

rub92me said:
If I remember correctly, the rule you are referring to is followed in 'American English' spelling, but not an offence in English spelling. I'm neither English nor American though, so I could be wrong.

lol
As Homer Simpson would say - why would I want to learn English!!? I'm not planning a trip to England!

btw imo,
"Tom eats the hamburger and leaves in a hurry" means that Tom also enjoys some salad as dessert, possibly prone to indigestion as a result;

whereas
"Tom eats the hamburger, and leaves in a hurry " means that Tom deserted and doesn't stay around for dessert.

wayneL · 10 October 2007

rub92me said:
If I remember correctly, the rule you are referring to is followed in 'American English' spelling, but not an offence in English spelling. I'm neither English nor American though, so I could be wrong.

That could be it, I was dragged up and put in a few appearance at school in the US, so that might explain it.

Cheers

Pat · 10 October 2007

To me punctuation is logical, however the spelling of some words is not. Like 2020's examples above.
Why do we have such pronunciations as 'ph' meaning 'f' and so on?
Perhaps the slang of now days is language evolution?
Also I’ve learnt to cut and paste into MS word to help my spelling, but I come unstuck with some of the previous examples… patients/patience etc.

onemore · 10 October 2007

Joe Blow said:
Proofread, proofread, proofread!

I do but when your a thickhead it doesn't help.
I never did like school

rederob · 10 October 2007

wayneL said:
Do you think so?

The sentence invites others to participate in a discussion on punctuation. Surely this warrants a question mark, in fact somebody would have certainly picked up the absence of the same.

No, I think the question mark is correct.

So, there's no distinction between an invitation to participate (a courteous "command"), and an invitation to respond to a direct question? (?)
Shall we begin with some rules.
A direct question seeking a specific reply should end with a question mark.
A question mark in parenthesis can indicate uncertainty - as you know(?)
What about rhetorical questions, you ask.
Or about statements that that are disguised as questions?
Or about indirect questions?
Or, about the use of lower case first letters in words that immediately follow short, sequential questions?
Such as, which of the above sentences is correct? the first? the second? or both?
Shall we conclude with some rules?

Pat · 10 October 2007

rederob said:
So, there's no distinction between an invitation to participate (a courteous "command"), and an invitation to respond to a direct question? (?)
Shall we begin with some rules.
A direct question seeking a specific reply should end with a question mark.
A question mark in parenthesis can indicate uncertainty - as you know(?)
What about rhetorical questions, you ask.
Or about statements that that are disguised as questions?
Or about indirect questions?
Or, about the use of lower case first letters in words that immediately follow short, sequential questions?
Such as, which of the above sentences is correct? the first? the second? or both?
Shall we conclude with some rules?

I thought a question mark just followed a question, it doesn't need to end the sentence. So lower case letters may follow a question mark.
A rhetorical question is just a question with no answer expected.... still a question which a question mark (?) should follow.

I wonder if the "rules" change for writing in 1st and 3rd person. Is there a 2nd person?

wayneL · 10 October 2007

rederob said:
So, there's no distinction between an invitation to participate (a courteous "command"), and an invitation to respond to a direct question? (?)
Shall we begin with some rules.
A direct question seeking a specific reply should end with a question mark.
A question mark in parenthesis can indicate uncertainty - as you know(?)
What about rhetorical questions, you ask.
Or about statements that that are disguised as questions?
Or about indirect questions?
Or, about the use of lower case first letters in words that immediately follow short, sequential questions?
Such as, which of the above sentences is correct? the first? the second? or both?
Shall we conclude with some rules?

I'm struggling to ascertain which rule you are alluding to, which disqualifies the sentence as a question and warranting a question mark.

2020hindsight · 10 October 2007

ok I've got a rhetorical question or two (dreamed / dreampt? up as I was driving home)
a) should I use one or two question marks, (?) (??) and
b) how many times did he kiss her?

1. he kissed her left fair bosom, and right
away he skipped into the night.

2. he kissed her left fair bosom and right -
away he skipped into the night

3. he kissed her left, he kissed her right
upon the nose, into the night

4. he kissed her left, he kissed her right,
upon the nose, into the night.

ps . he swore blood oath upon his sword
some would say he sweared, i would say he swored !

PS A cop pulled me over for driving erratically - I had to explain that I had just gone really close to missing a post

PS there're these blokes in white coats coming up the driveway !
HEY !! - LEAVE ME BE!!! - OOOooofffff .......

rederob · 10 October 2007

wayneL said:
I'm struggling to ascertain which rule you are alluding to, which disqualifies the sentence as a question and warranting a question mark.

I think that's an excellent reply.
If you (the second person) believe a question was asked, then a question mark can rightfully follow.
If I want to make a statement by asking a question, then ending with a period makes the point.
The decision to use or not use the question mark can change so much.
The question might be whether or not in was an intention or a mistake!

2020hindsight · 10 October 2007

that's what you think!
that's what you think?

wayneL · 10 October 2007

2020hindsight said:
that's what you think!
that's what you think?

That's what you think!
That's what you think?

LOL

Pat · 10 October 2007

I'm confused. I think we need an ASFer with a degree in question marks.

2020hindsight · 10 October 2007

here's a test - there are two questions

So how many questions marks? (,) or if you prefer, which is correct?:-

a) to be, or not to be?

b) to be?, or not to be?

c) to be, or not to be??

ASF spelling and grammar lessons

wayneL

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moneymajix

Joe Blow

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rederob

wayneL

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Joe Blow

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rub92me

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2020hindsight

wayneL

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Pat

onemore

rederob

Pat

wayneL

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2020hindsight

rederob

2020hindsight

wayneL

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Pat

2020hindsight

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