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Animal rights and ethical food production

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SirRumpole said:
If we knew more about how animals were treated in producing food, would it change our eating habits ?
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Ignorance is bliss as they say, most of us like to think a chickens laying eggs for us is a stress free life, but modern factory farming techniques can be cruel to say the least.

Seeing these precious little day old chicks being feed into a grinder alive certainly doesn't make me feel good about the industry.

Like male diary cattle, Male chicks are a waste product that gets discarded by the industry.

 
Young male calves are taken from their mother and killed, so that we can milk the mum and get the milk she produced for him. Females are also removed, this is hard on both the calf and the mother.




Waste Product of the dairy industry, 90,000 male calves are shot in Britain each year.

 
The reason we left the trees and it wasn't from eating fruit and leaves.
 
SirRumpole said:
OK, so I'm cutting down on milk and cheese. I use margarine instead of butter, so that's a relief on my conscience. :)
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Check out the vegan sections in Coles and Woolies, you will be surprised they are starting to get some really good selections, the veggie delights brand has some good stuff in the freezer and refrigerator section.

I have switched to Nuttlex for margarine, because it turns out all the other margarines still contain dairy.

and I use almond milk now also.

Also beer is vegan haha,

 
SirRumpole said:
OK, so I'm cutting down on milk and cheese. I use margarine instead of butter, so that's a relief on my conscience. :)
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You do know there is a 30+% elevated risk over butter of death because of the trans fats in margarine. The saturated fats in butter have not been shown to increase the risk of strokes, diabetes or heart disease.
 
If every Australian was taken on a tour inside a chicken battery then the cage egg industry would be outright dead just like that. It's absolutely horrendous what goes on.

Been there, seen inside and the whole thing is a throwback to the sorts of things which were acceptable 50+ years ago. It belongs in the same place as officially sanctioned racial discrimination, blatant sexism, people smoking inside offices and using asbestos as a filler in children's crayons. It should have stopped years ago and that it hasn't means that regulation is a necessary step.

In my view five years would be reasonable for an outright ban on this practice in Australia or the import of products produced using it.

The farmers will bleat a bit about costs but they've had decades to transition away from this practice so I don't have much sympathy there. If they haven't done it already then pretty obviously they're trying to cling on to the battery system. In any event we're talking about eggs and chicken here not wages rates or petrol. If the cost doubles or even triples then the broader economic consequences are close to zero since chicken and eggs are very minor components of consumer spending or business inputs.

For anyone who thinks it's acceptable I suggest getting two friends and finding an old phone box with a door. Now spend a few days, 24 hours per day, with all three of you living in that phone box and no you can't leave for any reason whatsoever. That's literally how cramped these chicken batteries are.
 
Tisme said:
You do know there is a 30+% elevated risk over butter of death because of the trans fats in margarine. The saturated fats in butter have not been shown to increase the risk of strokes, diabetes or heart disease.
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Can you provide a link to a study?

You can get margarine with 0% trans fat, eg the Flora brand and the one I recommended above is less than 0.1% trans fat.

While dairy based butters and animal products in general are higher in saturated fats which contribute to heart disease, which is Australia's largest killer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat_and_cardiovascular_disease
 
Smurf1976 said:
If every Australian was taken on a tour inside a chicken battery then the cage egg industry would be outright dead just like that. It's absolutely horrendous what goes on.

Been there, seen inside and the whole thing is a throwback to the sorts of things which were acceptable 50+ years ago. It belongs in the same place as officially sanctioned racial discrimination, blatant sexism, people smoking inside offices and using asbestos as a filler in children's crayons. It should have stopped years ago and that it hasn't means that regulation is a necessary step.

In my view five years would be reasonable for an outright ban on this practice in Australia or the import of products produced using it.

The farmers will bleat a bit about costs but they've had decades to transition away from this practice so I don't have much sympathy there. If they haven't done it already then pretty obviously they're trying to cling on to the battery system. In any event we're talking about eggs and chicken here not wages rates or petrol. If the cost doubles or even triples then the broader economic consequences are close to zero since chicken and eggs are very minor components of consumer spending or business inputs.

For anyone who thinks it's acceptable I suggest getting two friends and finding an old phone box with a door. Now spend a few days, 24 hours per day, with all three of you living in that phone box and no you can't leave for any reason whatsoever. That's literally how cramped these chicken batteries are.
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And, Unfortunately even if the eggs are free range, you still have the problem of killing all the male chicks and the eventual slaughter of the adult hens.
 
As I said in the other thread I am not a Vegan, am basically vegan except I am eating seafood about 3 times a week, So zero red meat, poultry, eggs and dairy.

 
Smurf1976 said:
If every Australian was taken on a tour inside a chicken battery then the cage egg industry would be outright dead just like that. It's absolutely horrendous what goes on.

Been there, seen inside and the whole thing is a throwback to the sorts of things which were acceptable 50+ years ago. It belongs in the same place as officially sanctioned racial discrimination, blatant sexism, people smoking inside offices and using asbestos as a filler in children's crayons. It should have stopped years ago and that it hasn't means that regulation is a necessary step.

In my view five years would be reasonable for an outright ban on this practice in Australia or the import of products produced using it.

The farmers will bleat a bit about costs but they've had decades to transition away from this practice so I don't have much sympathy there. If they haven't done it already then pretty obviously they're trying to cling on to the battery system. In any event we're talking about eggs and chicken here not wages rates or petrol. If the cost doubles or even triples then the broader economic consequences are close to zero since chicken and eggs are very minor components of consumer spending or business inputs.

For anyone who thinks it's acceptable I suggest getting two friends and finding an old phone box with a door. Now spend a few days, 24 hours per day, with all three of you living in that phone box and no you can't leave for any reason whatsoever. That's literally how cramped these chicken batteries are.
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Veterinary students often turn vego, at least temporarily , after their first tour of an abbatoir.

While Im not philosophically against using animals as food, the methodology of such is important. Cruelty in the process is just not cool...

Hence, the coolness of missus taking our own eggs to the local asian restaurant for use in our meals.

The interesting thing is how the staff start to think about this stuff.

Positive, rather than scolding activism.
 
Tisme said:
You do know there is a 30+% elevated risk over butter of death because of the trans fats in margarine.
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I haven't bought either butter or margarine for over a decade now.

I'm trying to remember what the point of them was? There's enough fat in most people's diets already so no need to literally spread more on.
 
Smurf1976 said:
I haven't bought either butter or margarine for over a decade now.

I'm trying to remember what the point of them was? There's enough fat in most people's diets already so no need to literally spread more on.
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There is a genetic quotient, either a glycotropic or lipotropic metabolism.

I am literally starving without some significant portion of fat in my diet. Missus is the exact opposite, fat is completely contraindicated... Interesting at dinner time.
 
Value Collector said:
Can you provide a link to a study?

You can get margarine with 0% trans fat, eg the Flora brand and the one I recommended above is less than 0.1% trans fat.

While dairy based butters and animal products in general are higher in saturated fats which contribute to heart disease, which is Australia's largest killer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat_and_cardiovascular_disease
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I'm sure you can find one that isn't peer reviewed by the anti butter plebs like wiki is. The trans fat myth dates back to the dark ages post WW2 where some bloke had the outcome and used matching data to prove it, disregarding the sets that didn't agree with his predisposed findings.

As I recall it was published in the UK about 3 years ago and combined about 50 surveys of over 1 million sample bodies. I made a point of reading it because I like butter and was advised by my Doctor there was also anecdotal evidence linking it to prevention of diabetes

I want to say Cambridge Uni, University of Canada and another in USofA ...New York? There many articles back in the 90's of how Harvard reckoned you doubled your chances of death eating trans fats instead of butter.

The reduction in heart disease and cardio vascular failure , while people are getting hugely fat is not the migration to trans fats from saturated, but noticeably the increase away from trans fat to the omegas, because the US Food and Drug Admin have mandated its elimination from their country's food supply.

Obviously if you too much of anything ........
 
Tisme said:
I'm sure you can find one that isn't peer reviewed by the anti butter plebs like wiki is. The trans fat myth dates back to the dark ages post WW2 where some bloke had the outcome and used matching data to prove it, disregarding the sets that didn't agree with his predisposed findings.

As I recall it was published in the UK about 3 years ago and combined about 50 surveys of over 1 million sample bodies. I made a point of reading it because I like butter and was advised by my Doctor there was also anecdotal evidence linking it to prevention of diabetes

I want to say Cambridge Uni, University of Canada and another in USofA ...New York? There many articles back in the 90's of how Harvard reckoned you doubled your chances of death eating trans fats instead of butter.

The reduction in heart disease and cardio vascular failure , while people are getting hugely fat is not the migration to trans fats from saturated, but noticeably the increase away from trans fat to the omegas, because the US Food and Drug Admin have mandated its elimination from their country's food supply.

Obviously if you too much of anything ........
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Either way, spreads with zero or near zero Trans fat are widely available, as I said Nuttlex which is the only spread with zero dairy in it has less than 0.1% trans fats
 
Value Collector said:
Either way, spreads with zero or near zero Trans fat are widely available, as I said Nuttlex which is the only spread with zero dairy in it has less than 0.1% trans fats
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But the fact remains there is no evidence that butter is any worse than even omega-3 and you don't get super fat on butter like you do on the highly prevalent omegas.

It's not just vascular you have to worry about, the stress on muscles and joints because of obesity will make for an uncomfortable retirement.

And we must learn from history, unless you are from a lactose intolerant gene pool

"A casual look at the races of people seems to show that those using much milk are the strongest physically and mentally, and the most enduring of the people of the world. Of all races, the Aryans seem to have been the heaviest drinkers of milk and the greatest users of butter and cheese, a fact that may in part account for the quick and high development of this division of human beings.”

History of Agriculture of the State of New York 1933
 
Vegan body building, shows its a myth that you need animal protein to grow muscle.

 
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