And we are off - Aboriginal leaders say $1 billion 'not sorry enough'

My Great, Great Uncle was stolen, can I have $50,000 for the emotional trauma that this caused me.



ABORIGINAL leaders have rallied behind a push for massive compensation for the Stolen Generations, but a former indigenous adviser to the Howard government has warned that the Rudd Government must not be dragged back into issues of "toxic symbolism".

While the Federal Government has attempted to sidestep the issue of compensation for the Stolen Generations, Aboriginal academics Boni Robertson and Gracelyn Smallwood yesterday upped the ante, saying it should be much higher than the $1 billion suggested by lawyer Michael Mansell.

Professor Robertson said $1billion was "really quite minimal" and "just a starting point", while Ms Smallwood said it would be "very generous to the Government" and should be double or triple that amount. 'Apology not enough' "It's very simple," Ms Smallwood told The Australian.

"You can't just apologise, you've got to mean it and the only way to prove that is through compensation. You can't reconcile without it."

As the Rudd Government moves towards a national apology, Wesley Aird, a member of the Howard government's hand-picked National Indigenous Council, warned Labor against being dragged back into "toxic symbolism", and said some Aboriginal leaders now seeking to re-engage with government had presided over "an era of hopelesseness".

"I don't believe anyone is going to have a better life just because the Government says sorry," Mr Aird said. Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin met members of the NIC last week.

She said yesterday its role was "still being considered". At the meeting, Sue Gordon, who has chaired both the council and the Northern Territory intervention taskforce, urged the Government to make a broad apology to all of those affected by the removal of Aboriginal children - not just to the children who were removed.

"If there's going to be an apology, I didn't want sorry to me, I wanted it to my mother and my brother who saw me taken away and looked for me," Ms Gordon said.

"It's all those people who need to be part of it." She urged the Government to consult widely on the wording of the apology, but said it was important not to get "hung up onwords".

"Cruel" and "evil" Jackie Huggins, the former co-chair of Reconciliation Australia, said the word "sorry" was essential and the words "cruel" and "evil" - as used in a Canadian apology to indigenous children taken from their families - were appropriate.

Former prime minister Malcolm Fraser said an apology needed to recognise that the policy of child removal based on race was "disastrously wrong and terrible".

He said compensation needed to be discussed, but thought the priority should be in redressing the "gross and irresponsible massive underspending on health, housing and education".

Mr Fraser also took aim at dissident historian Keith Windschuttle, who maintains the Stolen Generations are a "fiction".

The former Liberal leader said that Territory ordinances and documents dating back to 1911 gave "total confirmation that it was a designed and deliberate act of policy".

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22941961-5005941,00.html

What a F'in joke this is......... They get their fair share maybe some work should be done like the rest of us.....

We shouldnt still be paying for what was done years ago....


I Need to say "SORRY" this really annoys me...

All the following is my opinion only:

Compensatition is the exact reason why the Howard government did not apologise.

Lawyers will be loving it, and of course they will push for more, in order to get bigger comission. (Sorry to stereotype all those normal lawyers out there)

Is it an apology or the money that they want more?

Aboriginals already recieve a lot more help than other members of our society. IE - free education, paid to study at high school level etc etc

I feel sorry for those Aboriginals who are actually trying to get on with their lives and keep on having this dragged up before them.

I was an Army Officer in Darwin involved with settling a compensation claim for the accidental shooting up of a sacred tree, near Tennant Creek. The Aboriginal council that was put together to discuss the compensation charged $XX per head just to turn up to the meeting. Some forgot to turn up and it took 3 meetings to settle the claim. Some who did not turn up demanded payment for their non attendance.

Forget numbers, the fact there is a price on anything 'sacred' means that the stolen generation will be well compensated.

I am not saying they do, or do not, deserve compensation, just that you can forget the notion that Aboriginals are not as litigious as the next American and will suck this for all it's worth.

The scary thing is its the lawyers that are going to make a killing... if they do get compensation, i wonder how much will go into the lawyers pockets

The rest will probably go to the corrupt adminsitrative layer thats in charge of distribuiting the money... I wonder if the average aboriginal will see anything!

This whole compensation thing is a joke... as is this apology thing...

Yes, we are all sorry for what happened... but far out... native titles does exist now, and with the mining boom, there is enough oppurtunities break the cycle of poverty, if one wants too... (that goes for non aboriginals too)

Focus needs to be on aboriginal health, education, secutity and infrastructure.... (infact, the same applies for non aborignals too... we have too much govt in this country doing too many things)...

I might start a new thread on this in general...

We are talking about children torn from the arms of their parents , do gooders did this .

So did the Nazis !

Yeah come on people - Australia did actually legally belong to the Aboriginal people before the Brits invaded. The recompense that has been made so far (if you compounded what they should have received back in 1788) is only part of the way back to being an even playing field IMO

jonojpsg said:

Yeah come on people - Australia did actually legally belong to the Aboriginal people before the Brits invaded. The recompense that has been made so far (if you compounded what they should have received back in 1788) is only part of the way back to being an even playing field IMO

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Lots of different countries belonged to lots of different people who never recieved compensation after they were "invaded".

prawn_86 said:

Lots of different countries belonged to lots of different people who never recieved compensation after they were "invaded".

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Maybe the compensation has been made?

They live longer, are more wealthy, and most significantly - have the wheel.......... the list goes on................. like electricity....etc etc

What have Aborginals provided: hand prints on rocks, Michael Long, and.....


Having taken an easy swipe at their failures, perhaps they were the height of 'our' existance and materialism is on the downward slope, like I am tending towards...

jonojpsg said:

Yeah come on people - Australia did actually legally belong to the Aboriginal people before the Brits invaded. The recompense that has been made so far (if you compounded what they should have received back in 1788) is only part of the way back to being an even playing field IMO

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Was there a law in Australia then? Maybe unwritten, The only reason there getting claims granted is the Brits didn't state they saw natives when first settled, therefore terra nullius (land of no owner or empty land). Therefore Brits law could be used, this was found later to be untrue and so some of the laws and titles reverts back to the natives, but not all (apparently).

Far worse actions have been made by Governments against there residents and millions of $ aren't paid out.

The stolen generation? Click here, some of things that go on in these aboriginal communities the children should be taken away.

I am not racist in any way, there needs to be some equality in this Country, we all have 2 feet and we need to start standing on them for ourselves, not sponging of the system.

jonojpsg said:

Yeah come on people - Australia did actually legally belong to the Aboriginal people before the Brits invaded. The recompense that has been made so far (if you compounded what they should have received back in 1788) is only part of the way back to being an even playing field IMO

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I didn't invade. I was born here. So was my mother and father. My grandmother was born here and so were my three children and so were my nine grandchildren. My grandfathers came out from England and earnt their place by settling in the bush and working hard to make ends meet. I'm sure they did their bit to make the country what it is today. I've got nothing to apologise for. Aboriginals have been compensated heaps in the last 20 years and any that aren't living with the same standards as I have should look in a mirror and see who is to blame. Some of the stolen ones were lucky and now have it a lot better rhan they otherwise would have had.

ithatheekret said:

We are talking about children torn from the arms of their parents , do gooders did this .

So did the Nazis !

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Please don't compare the plight of the Aboriginal people with the Nazis. I know a number of people who suffered greatly during WW2 and survived the Holocaust.
Aboriginal children taken away from their parents, often for no reason other than the fact that they were Aboriginal, is an absolute disgrace. If a one off final settlement could be worked out without greedy lawyers getting involved, perhaps similar to the Tasmanian Government's approach (from memory they have set up a $5 million fund), then this might be the best solution for all. IMO a formal apology first needs to take place in the federal parliament. It seems that many in the opposition's ranks would also support such a move. I reckon its about time we all move forward together as "one people".

greggy said:

Please don't compare the plight of the Aboriginal people with the Nazis. I know a number of people who suffered greatly during WW2 and survived the Holocaust.

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You do realise that Australia is one of the only places where genocide has been successfully completed on a large scale don't you? Comparison indeed...

The english came, saw and conquered. They are a conquered race and lets not forget this. Furthermore, many of the "stolen generation" were handed over to the authorities because the new born's were halfcast, which is not acceptable, and would been murdered more than likely.
I spent 6 yrs in the territory, and saw alot of **** that you would not believe. They still behave like the rock apes that the english discovered here over 200 yrs ago, seriously, they have no idea on how too integtrate into a modern society, in fact, I'm pretty sure they don't want to. Just give them cash, and they're happy as pigs in ****, although the pigs are easier on the nose : )) They will only blow it anyway, buying cruiser's and pallet loads of VB. Give it 6 months, maybe a yr, and what they would have bought would be a total wreck. They don't give a **** about anything, let alone bettering themselves.
I'm not racist, I just don't like handouts going to those who aren't prepared to help themselves.

Perhaps the bill should be sent to the British Government, leave us poor Aussies and those who identify as such alone

And while we are at it, descendants of people Booted out of Britain for stealing an apple and forced into hard labor camps etc should tap their claims on as well ?

chops_a_must said:

You do realise that Australia is one of the only places where genocide has been successfully completed on a large scale don't you? Comparison indeed...

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I have indeed studied Aboriginal history, but in discussing the stolen generation I didn't think that comparisons with the Nazis was warranted. In this thread we're largely referring to the stolen generation and my comments were in relation to that.
The true extent of Aboriginal genocide will never be known. Agreed that nonetheless it was truly horrific...And that's why Chops A Must I participated in the National Sorry March.

surfingman said:

What a F'in joke this is......... They get their fair share maybe some work should be done like the rest of us.....

We shouldnt still be paying for what was done years ago....


I Need to say "SORRY" this really annoys me...

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Unfortunately, when you make a mistake, you have to face up to the consequences. When the mistakes are institutionalised, then the costs for those mistakes carry on for generations, ala the catholic church, JHX and even Australian governments.

I think it would be wrong for the catholic church not to apologise to abuse victims, or for James Hardie to do the same to their asbestos victims. Why would it be different for the federal government then? I don't think people realise that it's not them personally that will be made to feel "guilty", but rather, it would be an acknowledgment that departments in the past did the wrong thing. I note yesterday that the sate WA government apologised to british orphans abused in foster care. I don't hear a massive outcry about that.

Most Australians would like to hear an apology from the Japanese government regarding treatment of POWs. How are the current generation responsible? Answer, they aren't. The problem being, is a lack of apology at an institutional level, is seen as a total lack of contrition, and is tied in with the total denial of the issue as a whole. This was pretty evident in reports tabled by the Howard junta, and comments from that absolute joke of a man, John Herron.

As far as I'm aware, stolen generation compensation claims have been tested in court already. And no, I don't think compo will help. Money would be far better spent in Aboriginal communities as a whole.

But unless we are prepared to compromise on really superficial things, what hope is there in dealing with the real problems?

chops_a_must said:

Unfortunately, when you make a mistake, you have to face up to the consequences. When the mistakes are institutionalised, then the costs for those mistakes carry on for generations, ala the catholic church, JHX and even Australian governments.

I think it would be wrong for the catholic church not to apologise to abuse victims, or for James Hardie to do the same to their asbestos victims. Why would it be different for the federal government then? I don't think people realise that it's not them personally that will be made to feel "guilty", but rather, it would be an acknowledgment that departments in the past did the wrong thing. I note yesterday that the sate WA government apologised to british orphans abused in foster care. I don't hear a massive outcry about that.

Most Australians would like to hear an apology from the Japanese government regarding treatment of POWs. How are the current generation responsible? Answer, they aren't. The problem being, is a lack of apology at an institutional level, is seen as a total lack of contrition, and is tied in with the total denial of the issue as a whole. This was pretty evident in reports tabled by the Howard junta, and comments from that absolute joke of a man, John Herron.

As far as I'm aware, stolen generation compensation claims have been tested in court already. And no, I don't think compo will help. Money would be far better spent in Aboriginal communities as a whole.

But unless we are prepared to compromise on really superficial things, what hope is there in dealing with the real problems?

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I hear your point, but how when do you say that's enough?

They have been making claims for land and $ for far too long, the majority of money goes to the bottle shop, and the community as a whole gets further problems.

Give them an apology, I can assure you that won't be enough..... What's done is done, get on with running a country which has bigger issues on it's hands...

surfingman said:

I
They have been making claims for land and $ for far too long

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For what? 10 years as opposed to 210?

surfingman said:

I hear your point, but how when do you say that's enough?

They have been making claims for land and $ for far too long, the majority of money goes to the bottle shop, and the community as a whole gets further problems.

Give them an apology, I can assure you that won't be enough..... What's done is done, get on with running a country which has bigger issues on it's hands...

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I agree surfingman, move on, once an apology has been issued, they will seek compensation, piss it away on the grog, and then blame us, again.