Julia
In Memoriam
- Joined
- 10 May 2005
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- "The Sunday Mail" 14 June 2009One in six Australians visit a complementary therapist as their primary health carer but experts fear many do so without being aware of the possible risks.
University of Queensland researcher Jon Wardle is calling for the registration of complementary medicine therapists to make it safer for people to consult a naturopath.
Mr Wardle, a naturopath and research scholar with UQ's School of Population Health, says registration is long overdue.
"One in six people use complementary therapists as their primary healthcare practitioner and yet currently anyone can hang up a shingle and begin practising without any qualifications at all", he said. "This is a major public health issue".
Do you visit naturopaths and/or homeopaths? Is this your first choice over a conventional GP? Why?
Or do you avoid these people and trust the medical profession?
Do you visit naturopaths and/or homeopaths? Is this your first choice over a conventional GP? Why?
Or do you avoid these people and trust the medical profession?
It is in a GP's best interests to make his patients better. He doesn't get money from selling products. The whole "natural" industry is a scam which is targeted at uneducated people who don't know any better.
http://whatstheharm.net/
^ this is a good site that goes into some of the details of what these "alternatives" can do to you.
I do not understand why people will use drugs or even have operations, when there are less invasive options. If those options don't work (and they don't work in every situation), then go and take the drug or have the operation.
I find it strange that people are complaining about the need for naturopaths to be registered, when Australia allows people like Doctor Death in QLD to practice. And another doctor in QLD (cant recall his name) has been found guilty of many sexual assault charges, has served his time and is now allowed to practice again! If you are seeing a naturopath and concerned about their qualifications, simply ask them to provide proof they are registered with the The Australian Naturopathic Practitioners Association, or the Australian Traditional Medicine Society. If they can't, then there is a possibility they are not appropriately qualified, and you should go elsewhere.
My post is not intended to be against doctors or GP's, as there are good and bad, just as there are good and bad naturopaths.
Gav,
I haven't had many prescriptions, but the ones I have had have been for a particular drug, not a particular brand of drug. When at the chemist I get to choose if I would like a "cheaper alternative" because I choose the brand, not the doctor.
I will however take your comments on board as I have no doubt there are some dodgy GP's out there.
Most of the time because they DON'T work. People want to get rid of their ailment, not be human trials.
The problem is there are good and bad GPs, but the medicine is regulated and has solid research, meaning the medicine is mostly good. There are good and bad naturopaths, but the advice is untested and unregulated, meaning the advice is mostly bad.
Imagine: If a heavily regulated and scrutinised industry can get the odd bad egg - how many bad eggs are there in a unregulated unscrutinised industry?
This is really relevant and one of the things that concerns me.Imagine: If a heavily regulated and scrutinised industry can get the odd bad egg - how many bad eggs are there in a unregulated unscrutinised industry?
Could you clarify here whether you are suggesting the drug rep gets the incentives for meeting a quota, or the doctor for prescribing a quota?Actually, GP's DO get kickbacks for prescribing drugs, whether it be in the form of money, holidays, etc. I have a friend who is a sales rep for a drug company which I will not name. Her job is to go around to Pharmacist's, GP's and doctor's and convince them to sell her companies drugs. They receive many incentives, and even get extra incentives for meeting a certain quota.
I agree that most GP's prescribe too readily. It's pressure of time which is a pity.My g/f is a qualified naturopath (Bach of Sci, Naturopathy) and is registered, however she no longer works in the industry. The amount of clients she used to have that would come in complaining about side affects from drugs prescribed from GP's were unbelievable - GP's prescribe far too easily.
How big is the sample here? Not one out of how many?The most common was for blood pressure related medication. NOT ONE GP recommended for the patient to commence aerobic activity,
Agree, along with weight reduction.which is one of the most favorable resolutions for lowering high blood pressure.
20 people over a whole year is not exactly a large number! A GP would be likely to see possibly 20 people in a day with BP related problems, certainly more than 20 in a week.My g/f seen more than 20 ppl for blood pressure related problems last year, only one needed to go back on medication prescribed by their GP. Aerobic activity, and supplementing with magnesium and hawthorn berry was all she advised (as well as having their blood pressure checked regularly). No longer are those people dependent on drugs.
You describe one case. GP's successfully diagnose and treat thyroid problems all the time. I have an underactive thyroid which is easily managed with medication. So do many people.However one thing that worries me is that in some areas of the USA, naturopaths are allowed prescribe hormone replacement therapies. This is concerning because the majority of naturopaths do not have enough training in the area. But then again, it is no different to GP's prescribing hormone and thyroid medication, when they do not have the proper training to do so either. When getting a blood test for thyroid and/or testosterone, a GP will simply request an overall thyroid count and total testosterone count. NEITHER OF THESE give the full picture and can lead to a wrong diagnosis.
Unfortunately a relative of mine was diagnosed with over active thyroid. Even though multiple blood tests from different GP's came back fine, it wasn't until he seen a specialist that the problem was discovered. By then he had lost 15KG in less than a month, and was skinny to begin with. The specialist recommended INJECTING RADIATION to kill off part of the thyroidBut they killed off too much. Now he has an under active thyroid and has put on over 45KG. Unfortunately, this cannot be reversed.
You're quite naturally expressing your own view, Gav, and I respect that.I do not understand why people will use drugs or even have operations, when there are less invasive options. If those options don't work (and they don't work in every situation), then go and take the drug or have the operation.
Now that is just a silly comparison. You have two dysfunctional individuals who have been dealt with by the system. Pity, of course, they were not sorted out before they did so much damage. Queensland Health are too busy covering up all their stuff ups to actually respond to patient complaints.I find it strange that people are complaining about the need for naturopaths to be registered, when Australia allows people like Doctor Death in QLD to practice. And another doctor in QLD (cant recall his name) has been found guilty of many sexual assault charges, has served his time and is now allowed to practice again!
As above, neither of these registrations would reassure me.If you are seeing a naturopath and concerned about their qualifications, simply ask them to provide proof they are registered with the The Australian Naturopathic Practitioners Association, or the Australian Traditional Medicine Society. If they can't, then there is a possibility they are not appropriately qualified, and you should go elsewhere.
If a naturopath is registered with the associations I listed, they have adequate formal formal qualifications, and HAVE INSURANCE. If they didn't work most of the time, didn't help people with their ailments, used humans as trials, didn't have solid research (as you put it), then how the hell could they get insurance??
Could you clarify here whether you are suggesting the drug rep gets the incentives for meeting a quota, or the doctor for prescribing a quota?
And if it's the rep, then clarify what you mean by 'meeting a quota':
i.e. do you mean the number of doctors she sees or the volume of drug which goes out of the company's warehouse in her area?
Obviously my friend the sales rep receives incentives when she convinces businesses to buy her companies drugs - thats how working in sales is. But the pharmacists, GP's and other doctors also get the kickbacks and incentives for recommending/prescribing certain drugs from that company, and get even more if the meet a certain quota. I am not surprised this happens, but I am surprised as to how much trust people put in GP's. I drive almost 3 hours to see a GP I trust.
I agree that most GP's prescribe too readily. It's pressure of time which is a pity.
Re your g/f seeing so many unhappy clients, you have to bear in mind that she's only seeing those who have had unsatisfactory results from conventional medicine, or - more likely imo - those who for their own reasons are predisposed against conventional medicine, i.e. those who automatically distrust something which is "a drug" compared to what they think is pure and beautiful because it contains various plant materials.
The example I gave are just a small sample of the clients my g/f used to see. If they automatically distrusted the drugs, they would not have taken them in the first place. They went to see a naturopath for alternative methods to the drugs because were causing side effects.
Good that your g/f has a Bach Science. Where does the naturopathic qualification come from? Presumably either The Australian Naturopathic Practitioners Association, or the Australian Traditional Medicine Society?
Who sets the standards of education for either/both these organisations?
I could set up, say, "The Australian Association of Nutritional Wellness", devise a bit of education in nutrition, invite students to undertake my course (at a fee of course), and when they have passed it, confer on them the qualification "Member of the Australian Assn of Nutritional Wellness, Hons."
Wouldn't necessarily mean squat, but will appeal hugely to those who are into 'natural therapies'.
My g/f did her Bach of Science at a University, not some sham organisation connected to the registration, but I understand the point you are making.
Now, Gav, I'm sure your g/f is well educated and I'm not having a go at you or her in any personal sense.
I just don't see - unless the industry is regulated by the TGA as is the medical industry - that the public can reasonably have confidence in either the practitioners or their products.
It is ILLEGAL to claim therapeutic qualities unless it is TGA approved. As I said earlier - I agree it should be regulated more, as does my g/f.
I managed to get professional indemnity insurance for $300 a year. They didn't ask me whether I had a degree, industry certifications, or whether I had been fired for incompetence in the past. Just "What industry do you work in" and "How would you like to pay for this"?
As a naturopath you cannot get insurance unless you have the appropriate qualification.
Also another thing to think about:
If you were just feeling mildly unwell, and you believed in alternative medicine, you'd probably give it a go right?
But if you were feeling majorly sick, and all you could think of was getting something to ease the pain, would you go to a naturopath?
So, your G/F's clients could have had minor, temporary ailments such as stress or too much coffee raising blood pressure, and the placebo effect in conjuction with time, could mean they never needed anything more than some reassurance and a more active lifestyle.
If those clients did have minor temporary ailment from stress or too much coffee, then the GP's should NOT have prescribed them medication in the first place. Unfortunately too many GP's are prescribing drugs instead of recommending life style changes.
However, someone who is suffering fainting and is at risk of imminent heart attack... Do you see them going to naturopaths? I do - they get in the news a couple time a year - usually in the coroner's report.
That is why regulation is required, to stop this from happening. Obviously someone in that situation should see a doctor immediately, I have not said otherwise in any of my posts. As I've already said, I AM ALL FOR REGULATION, as are appropriately qualified naturopaths. I don't see why so many people have a problem with qualified naturopaths who recommend scientifically proven remedies. Even private health insurance companies are giving rebates for members seeing naturopaths. If you prefer to see your GP for all ailments, that's your choice.
A couple whose baby daughter died after they treated her with homeopathic remedies instead of conventional medicine have been found guilty of manslaughter.
Julia, my responses are in bold
Well, thank you for clarifying that. With all due respect to your g/f, I would not at all be impressed or reassured by a qualification from the "Southern School of Natural Medicine".Julia, please disregard my second point in bold. It should read:
"My g/f did her Bach of Science at the Southern School of Natural Medicine, not an organisation connected to the registration, but I understand the point you are making. Once an organisation offers a Degree, it is subject to government regulation and strict requirements that must be adhered to."
So she sells to pharmacies and wholesalers? I'm sure you're not suggesting any pharmaceutical rep actually sells their product direct to doctors???Obviously my friend the sales rep receives incentives when she convinces businesses to buy her companies drugs - thats how working in sales is.
So can you be more clear about this? Most pharmaceutical reps will give doctors pads and pens e.g. and sponsor 'educational events' but I think you are misrepresenting the situation if you are actually suggesting doctors receive some tangible benefit if they prescribe a company's products.But the pharmacists, GP's and other doctors also get the kickbacks and incentives for recommending/prescribing certain drugs from that company, and get even more if the meet a certain quota.
Interesting that you do actually see a GP.I am not surprised this happens, but I am surprised as to how much trust people put in GP's. I drive almost 3 hours to see a GP I trust.
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