Alcoholism

Smurf1976 said:

I know someone in their 20's who used to drink an average of about 12 standard drinks per day. So not extreme but well beyond what most would consider reasonable. And their rate of consumption was steadily increasing.

They made their own decision and stayed off it completely for a few months and have since gone back to occasional social drinking. I'd call that a recovery.

Only downside is a bit of denial. Based on what I know, I'd say they've done some health damage and would be wise to keep off it altogether. But at least they've cut back 95% which is better than most.

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..... a great story Smurf .....

Many people can recover to the same degree, but it takes more
than just token support by friends and family, to assist users in
their recovery ... it takes a long-term commitment towards
walking with users, encouraging them and assisting them with their
practical needs, especially in the early days of their recovery .....

..... as already mentioned in this thread, the FIRST STEP is to motivate
the user, into WILLINGLY enter into a recovery program.

Sometimes, coerced clients do make that first step, but very often,
they are only engaged in recovery programs to obtain leniency from
the justice system, so it makes it very hard for loved ones to engage
with the user constructively, as the user does not really have any
real motivation for personal change and so, they remain a "happy user".

have a great weekend

paul



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Julia I only came across this thread today. There is no doubt it is a real problem. It has always been part of the Australian culture, but the age of those showing ill effects is getting younger and affecting more females. I read the other day that most patients presenting with initail liver damage don't even know they have it. It creeps up on you and with 30% of them it is too late to do much about it. My grandfather was an alcoholic and he died one. He was also a bad alcoholic. But his three children have never had a drink. I have noticed that it often skips generations. I love my wine and I have annual liver checkups.

There will always be people who become addicted to the alcohol drug.They want to feel euphoric.The reasons for wanting to feel euphoric are many but there is a shift in some and they want euphoria regularly.

Addictive personalities will get addicted to something, be it food, gambling, illegal substances, ASF :eek3:, cigarettes, CFD`s etc.

Thankfully there are folk who help these people snap out of their self imposed disease.

Calliope said:

There is no doubt it is a real problem. It has always been part of the Australian culture, but the age of those showing ill effects is getting younger

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Let's face it, a large proportion of the 18 - 21 age group will get smashed tonight. Just as they do every Saturday night. Sadly, some don't grow out of it like the one I mentioned in an earlier post.

Trader Paul said:

..... as already mentioned in this thread, the FIRST STEP is to motivate
the user, into WILLINGLY enter into a recovery program.

Sometimes, coerced clients do make that first step, but very often,
they are only engaged in recovery programs to obtain leniency from
the justice system, so it makes it very hard for loved ones to engage
with the user constructively, as the user does not really have any
real motivation for personal change and so, they remain a "happy user".

Click to expand...

Paul, you've mentioned a critical point here. Addicts engaging in rehab as a result of pressure from family/justice system rarely seem to make any progress, rather they are resentful and angry about being there.

This is certainly the case with the cousin I've talked about.

Essentially, he doesn't believe anything will ever change, so it would seem any gestures towards recovery programmes on his part are bound to fail.
Would you agree?

Julia said:

Are there any ASF members who can report any effective recoveries from alcoholism, either personal or from friends or family?

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awg said:

genetics IS hugely influential, but cannot be changed.
Behaviour can be modified.

If he is a proper alco, usually they have to wean, then stop altogether

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Trader Paul said:

Taking away the cravings is a significant step towards dealing with
any addiction, as it is easier for the client, to then focus on the
recovery program.


Some people have to "hit bottom" and go through the detox process
many times, before they become strong enough to face their
addiction (and their underlying issues, as well.)

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Trader Paul said:

..... a great story Smurf .....

Many people can recover to the same degree, but it takes more
than just token support by friends and family, to assist users in
their recovery ... it takes a long-term commitment towards
walking with users, encouraging them and assisting them with their
practical needs, especially in the early days of their recovery .....

..... as already mentioned in this thread, the FIRST STEP is to motivate
the user, into WILLINGLY enter into a recovery program.

Sometimes, coerced clients do make that first step, but very often,
they are only engaged in recovery programs to obtain leniency from
the justice system, so it makes it very hard for loved ones to engage
with the user constructively, as the user does not really have any
real motivation for personal change and so, they remain a "happy user".

have a great weekend

paul



=====

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I would suggest a technique that is very effective in taming/training animals and even children, but seems forgotten when dealing with adult behavior.

Control the enviornment, reward desireable behavior and sanction undesirable behavior.

The only problem when applying it to adults is that it may get messy with issues generally termed civil/individual rights/liberties.

But, if you play your cards right it won't.

Essentially it takes a special person to engage with the patient, but not to discuss the disease or treatment... just someone that the patient can relate to, respect and crave their attention.

This is the basic ingredient that is missing from many lives... akin to what was only scientifically recognised towards the middle of last century... that a baby's basic need, the invisible energy of life, comes from feeling the warmth, comfort and security by the physical touching of the skin by people caring for them.

Now I'm not literally suggesting smooging up to alcoholics, but the principle is the same. For them to get the motivation strong enough to change behaviour successfully and sustain it, someone has to get that 'close' to them and edge them into a better enviornment where they can experience more unconditional love and respect for them as a person.

Obviously that does not involve endorsing alcoholism, just work with the positives in their personality to make them stronger and more dominant in their personality, ie get them back in touch with some of the things that they used to or can crave more than alcohol without any critique at all. Lead them to somewhere where they can get in touch with their inner spirit and get a fire in their belly to want to do other things.

Often it's that fire in the belly that has dimmed or burnt out that has led them to alcoholism.

Once the fire in the belly is reinvigerated the alcoholism habit will weaken and they will be more responsive to the basic reward for the right behaviour... and only after they have substantially recovered will the sanction strategy be effective in preventing them from going back.

Too often the system doesn't lead by (good) example. It just says what you must do, or else...

Whiskers, thank you for the thoughts. For that strategy to be effective, the person needs to be emotionally aware and functional, wouldn't you say?

This man, despite being highly intelligent, has failed with all his interpersonal relationships. He professed to love his wife dearly, but shagged around from the very early days of their marriage. As a teenager he made sexual approaches to his younger sisters. So I think the likelihood of some individual suddenly becoming important/indispensable to him, and whose approval/love/liking would be paramount, is pretty remote.

Putting him permanently in an environment where alcohol is unobtainable would seem a solution, so maybe they could ship him off to one of the dry aboriginal communities! Problem there is that he's also the archetypal racist.

Smurf1976 said:

Let's face it, a large proportion of the 18 - 21 age group will get smashed tonight. Just as they do every Saturday night. Sadly, some don't grow out of it like the one I mentioned in an earlier post.

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And Friday night is the night for school kids to get smashed. The 14 - 17 year olds gather in large numbers on a beach not far from where I live and proceed to get legless on alcopops (lately they are mixing their own.) They have no trouble getting this stuff. Strangely I have never heard of a case of a licencee losing his licence for serving minors. It is a very important part of their business. The alcopop trade was huge. Not content with littering the beaches these little darlings leave a trail of vandalism on their way home. I believe these practices are widespread.