Africa the cradle or the grave of civilization?

[Garpal Gumnut]

My mate Gordon is recouping the money misappropriated by his wife in a family court settlement here in South Africa.

I hope to be home soon.

How is the market going??

Africa is stuffed, might is right, poverty, disease etc., no broadband either, stay well comrades of the free market.

gg

 

[Sean K]

Re: Africa the cradle or the grave of civilization ??

Hey GG,

Your mates situation sounds pretty crapo! Bloody good of you to be there with him.

Markets are the markets. Fear and greed.

Cheap credit is not a good thing for the greedy.

For humans.

XAO has a pe of about 12 now, so there might be some bargains out there in the coming months (or years).

Africa may develop as a whole by 2200. Give them time.

All the best,
kennas

 

[Naked shorts]

Re: Africa the cradle or the grave of civilization ??

Forign aid needs to stop pouring into Africa the way it does. The corruption that it is generating will continue holding the counrty back as long as western nations throw money at them and then feel good about themselves.

 

[juw177]

Re: Africa the cradle or the grave of civilization ??

If it wasnt for the western support of corrupt countries so that our companies can "invest in" (ie, pillage) the country, a big portion of our favourite miner stocks will not exist.

 

[Sean K]

Re: Africa the cradle or the grave of civilization ??

Forign aid needs to stop pouring into Africa the way it does. The corruption that it is generating will continue holding the counrty back as long as western nations throw money at them and then feel good about themselves.

Just put up a big fence around them and open the gates in 100 years you think? Of course, we can take as much natural resources out as we like in the mean time.

Nature will find a solution eventually.

 

[disarray]

africa will get probably get colonised by arabs and chinese looking for lebensraum and resources. unless africa evolves its civilisation it will become cultural roadkill in the population competition to come.

 

[So_Cynical]

africa will get probably get colonised by arabs and chinese looking for lebensraum and resources. unless africa evolves its civilisation it will become cultural roadkill in the population competition to come.

Africa is the second most populated continent on earth and at some point
in the future it will be the new china (as far as cheap labor goes)...once
Asia gets to the too expensive to produce there stage, there's only 1 place
left to go (exploit) and that's Africa.

I'm not for a moment saying that as a whole Africa is not at the moment a
basket case...cos it is, although there are pockets of sanity and good government.

 

[disarray]

fair point, but i don't think the planet will support a middle class china and india at projected population levels. with 1/3 of the worlds population between them i don't see chindia running out of cheap manpower anytime soon, by which time the resources crunch will be far more pronounced. anyway this is all crystal ball stuff and reflects your own individual levels of optimism / pessimism

 

[2020hindsight]

with 1/3 of the worlds population between them i don't see chindia running out of cheap manpower anytime soon

coolies at 3 foot centres as they say...

btw gg, I thought that iraq was the cradle of civilisation

 

[Naked shorts]

Re: Africa the cradle or the grave of civilization ??

Just put up a big fence around them and open the gates in 100 years you think? Of course, we can take as much natural resources out as we like in the mean time.

Nature will find a solution eventually.

The resources we are taking out of the country is doing it good. The jobs they create is giving people money, the exports is propping up the currency. its just the corruption that is holding them back

 

[juw177]

Re: Africa the cradle or the grave of civilization ??

The resources we are taking out of the country is doing it good. The jobs they create is giving people money, the exports is propping up the currency. its just the corruption that is holding them back

If you treat a country as a cash cow, why would you care about the people's well being or the welfare of their country? Just throw some money and weapons at the regime in power and reap the rewards.

To add to the inequality, human rights only gets a mention when it suits the west. The Rwandan genocide was used to justify Paul Kagame's murderous regime which is now helping the west plunder Congo's resources. Back then there was a racket about the regime in Somalia until a US friendly regime was installed. Now it is Darfur, Sudan because China has secured some lucrative resources while the US was concentrating on the Middle East.

 

[Pronto]

Africa will get probably get colonised by arabs and chinese looking for lebensraum and resources.

Ah, you didn't mean to say 'Australia' instead by any chance?

 

[disarray]

If you treat a country as a cash cow, why would you care about the people's well being or the welfare of their country? Just throw some money and weapons at the regime in power and reap the rewards.

its not the responsibility of the west to build a society for these people, they have to do it for themselves.

To add to the inequality, human rights only gets a mention when it suits the west. The Rwandan genocide was used to justify Paul Kagame's murderous regime which is now helping the west plunder Congo's resources. Back then there was a racket about the regime in Somalia until a US friendly regime was installed. Now it is Darfur, Sudan because China has secured some lucrative resources while the US was concentrating on the Middle East.

you're being a bit blinkered there. the 3 countries you mentioned are all synonomous with starvation, mass murder and civilian suffering on a grand scale.

everyone wants resources, and people play all sorts of underhanded games to get them. but when there is serious strife and there is visible suffering for large numbers of innocent people, the west will take a moral stand. obviously you can't take a moral stand on everything but places like bangladesh, cambodia, somalia, ethiopia, sudan where MILLIONS of people are dying / displaced, then the media starts showing distressing images and people start jumping up and down so governments will (eventually) step in.

so while business is usually priority, mass murder doesn't sit well with the west so we start to meddle and send in troops / the IMF or whatever. china on the other hand doesn't care and leaves other countries to their own business, whatever it may be.

Ah, you didn't mean to say 'Australia' instead by any chance?

who can tell the future? we have a lot of unsettled land in the north west with good water supply, abundant fishing and huge amounts of natural resources. climate change could displace tens of millions of people in the pacific / southeast asia, a belligerent china could make a play for the kimberley to secure iron ore supplies to feed its monstrous urbanisation schemes, who knows? the world is still a work in progress and nothing lasts forever. it pays to be adaptable.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Thanks for all the info guys, time away from the market seems to be good for me.

One thing I've had confirmed is that people are people no matter where you are. Good and bad. Rich and poor. Poverty here in South Africa is indecent. So is the wealth. And the two co-exist within metres of each other. Only resemblence to Australia is that politicians are a load of wankers. Slow oh so slow connection. Will post from Singapore. Gordon stays here in Cape Town.. He's a complete chauvanist , even I think so, and he's got himself involved with a an Islamic Cape Coloured lady, good looking and rich, who, wears a scarf 18/7 and wait for it,smokes Gauloises nearly as much. Funny old world, he's shouting me first class back to Australia , 2nd leg on the Airbus.

gg

 

[2020hindsight]

gg, howdy - just incidentally - Why not duck over the border into Zimbabwe and see if the elections are fair or not -

a) ask the people would they personally like to dance on Mugabe's grave
b) what sort of dance would they do ,, etc

c) as Fred Dagg once said, "we don't know how propitious are our circumstances Frederick"

 

[juw177]

2020hindsight, many Africans are not about to support the regime change in Zimbabwe when the same interests are behind all kinds schemes to grab more wealth from the land and people Africa.

 

[2020hindsight]

2020hindsight, many Africans are not about to support the regime change in Zimbabwe when the same interests are behind all kinds schemes to grab more wealth from the land and people Africa.

juw
you're now saying there's any justification for Mugabe's clinging to power I hope. - against the wishes of the majority of Zimbabweans?

and unless Sth Africa shows some spine and helps run / arbitrate a fair election - or more accurately recognises the previous election, they can wave goodbye to any future international respect (imo).

Mbeke is 10% of the man Mandela was. (again imo)

 

[juw177]

2020hindsight what trashy propaganda cartoons omit is that the problems in Africa are largely not the fault of Africans. It is the effect of western colonial powers. The reason why Mugabe has been in power for decades is because the people know their history. Don't be so quick to jump on the media bandwagon.

 

[2020hindsight]

juw
Zimbabwe is Orwell's Animal Farm personified
..
Napoleon played by Mugabe to a tee.
- the man's a madman.

 

[juw177]

2020hindsight, if you have different views, then so be it.

After all, you are justifying your stance by morally personifying Mugabe as a cartoon caricature and a character in a novel.