Adolf Hitler got things done

beerwm said:

fair point

i was just getting the vibe that the thread was saying technological advancements wouldnt of happened due to war.

economic advantages of no war > economic advantages of war

but throwing in social structures, politics, regimes changes all that, :

great thread knocker

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Possbily, possibly not. As you say, the system in which we live is a huge influence. It's completely speculative, so we just can't know whether or not we would be better off. Many of us would not exist though, so it's arguable that most of us would not be better off .

Adolf got things done. He ended the Great Depression.

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By starting a new one? He certainly did get things done though - it's not too difficult with an army behind you.

Period. <- Technically that is a double period, and I do not like it.

Some threads are best left to die a decent death and this is one of them.

He was a murdering mad fascist writ large , his name a byword for mechanised brutality in the 20th Century.

He caused untold misery, tried to wipe out more than a few cultures along the way.

He was a monster.

He didn't "get things done"

I'll say no more.

gg

Garpal Gumnut said:

Some threads are best left to die a decent death and this is one of them.

He was a murdering mad fascist writ large , his name a byword for mechanised brutality in the 20th Century.

He caused untold misery, tried to wipe out more than a few cultures along the way.

He was a monster.

He didn't "get things done"

I'll say no more.

gg

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Quite so, KALAVRITA, Greece - December 13th 1943 where all but 13 from the town from 12-years-old upwards were murdered by the Germans (696 shot down). http://www.lernen-aus-der-geschichte.de/?site=pp_import_de_0000055&lp=en
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalavryta

Garpal Gumnut said:

Some threads are best left to die a decent death and this is one of them.

He was a murdering mad fascist writ large , his name a byword for mechanised brutality in the 20th Century.

He caused untold misery, tried to wipe out more than a few cultures along the way.

He was a monster.

He didn't "get things done"

I'll say no more.

gg

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Bernie Eccelstein reckons he did lol

Knocker, I wouldnt be putting this pig on a pedestal

History would have been better off without him..

Wherever we are today, we would have got there regardless

There are NO advantages to wars..

Hitler got things done - Formula One Boss

Hitler got things done: Formula One boss

July 04, 2009
Article from: Agence France-Presse

FORMULA One supremo Bernie Ecclestone has described Adolf Hitler as a leader able to "get things done" in a discussion about dictators during an interview with The Times newspaper published today.

Asked to comment on accusations that world motorsport chief Max Mosley behaved like a dictator, Mr Ecclestone went on to speak about Hitler, former Iraq dictator Saddam Hussein - whom he said should have stayed in power - and the Taliban.

"In a lot of ways, terrible to say this I suppose, but apart from the fact that Hitler got taken away and persuaded to do things that I have no idea whether he wanted to do or not, he ... could command a lot of people, able to get things done,'' Mr Ecclestone told The Times.

"In the end he got lost, so he wasn't a very good dictator.''

Mr Ecclestone added: "We did a terrible thing when we supported the idea of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He was the only one who could control'' Iraq.

"It was the same (with the Taliban in Afghanistan). We move into countries and we have no idea of the culture. The Americans probably thought Bosnia was a town in Miami. There are people starving in Africa and we sit back and do nothing but we get involved in things we should leave alone.''

Mr Ecclestone said Britain's only female prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, was also someone who had "got the job done''.

"She was the one who built this country up slowly. We've let it go down again.''

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matty2.0 said:

is this a ... um ... joke??? Are you a closet white supremacist?

not to mention all of his "humanitarian" contributions to society ... is Hitler the reason why we're all sh***ing our pants every time some lunatic with power gets a hold of a nuclear weapon?
The odds of annihalating this planet to smithereans has increased dramatically. There's no turning back now ... pandora's box has been opened. It's all about prevention and harm minimization now.
If there are people who ... can get on planes ... fly them into sky scrapers ... to kill others ... AND to kill themselves in the process as part of one glorious act ... throw in a couple of nuclear weapons and atomic bombs and I'd say we're in trouble.
Some crazy meglo-maniacs in this world unfortunately.

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Nuclear weapons have only ever been used against a public majority on two occasions and we all know who used them, setting a precedent for the future maybe!

knocker said:

Some might dispute his methods, but if it were not for him and WW2 would the world be as advanced as it is today?

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knocker, i cant imagine how you could possibly want to post such nonsense.

it took a calamity of a toll on the lives of people all across the globe.

do you see the likes of idi amin and his genocide of 300,000 people after being trained by the british army as an achievement and an advancement? if hitler did not reign, then the british would not have trained idi in the art of killing in 1946 (end of the second world war) and the earth would have been a far better place without him..

Hitler interned and killed all down syndrome all mentally ill, all intellectually handicapped in the Germanic race, to eradicate the percieved weaknesses of his beloved race.. then he systematically eradicated all the jewish families in all germanic populations which he considered to be the major factor contributing to suffering of the germans in the depression, then on and on he went, repeating the same cleansing as he took control of other regions in europe. the pope too fearful to speak out, the germans too euphoric to see the dark side as anything else but a means to an end

how on earth you can say he got the job done is beyond me.

genocide is not getting the job done

there are plenty of places in world history where facing enormous pressure the job is being done, i think if you researched chinese history you will see advances and achievements that are staggering.

although rocket and jet science advanced in germany in hitlers reign.. they did not discover flight itself, just adveanced engines and thrust..

Dr. Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun (March 23, 1912 – June 16, 1977), a German rocket physicist and astronautics engineer, became one of the leading figures in the development of rocket technology in Germany and the United States. Wernher von Braun is sometimes said to be the preeminent rocket engineer of the 20th century.

the other famous german and infinitely more successful soul on this planet was the great german Albert Einstein

his mid was a lot clearer than most and took a great stance again nazism, which shows much better character than some here i think..

Anti-Nazism

Einstein had moved to the United States in December 1932, where he had been at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, California, and also was a guest lecturer at Abraham Flexner's newly founded Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, New Jersey.

During the 1930s and into World War II, Einstein wrote affidavits recommending United States visas for European Jews who were trying to flee persecution. He raised money for Zionist organizations and was, in part, responsible for the 1933 formation of the International Rescue Committee.

In Germany, Deutsche Physik activists published pamphlets and even textbooks denigrating Einstein. Nobel laureates Philipp Lenard and Johannes Stark led a campaign to eliminate Einstein's work from the German lexicon as unacceptable "Jewish physics" (Jüdische Physik). Instructors who taught his theories were blacklisted, including Nobel laureate Werner Heisenberg, who had debated quantum probability with Bohr and Einstein. Philipp Lenard claimed that the mass–energy equivalence formula needed to be credited to Friedrich Hasenöhrl to make it an Aryan creation. A man convicted of conspiring to kill Einstein was fined a mere six dollars.


there are many places in the globe where things advanced and were unnoticed. there is greatness and a path that some take that leads to exploration and brilliance, which never ever are based strong motivations of nationalism and genocide..

Richard Pearse in new zealand for instance is credited with being the first to demonstrate powered flight.. using whatever was available in the rural regions he lived.. he is not as famous as the smiths, but imho it demonstrates clearly that a depression, or mass murder are indeed strong motivators for advancement, but should be seen for what they are.. and life itself, and a wonderful mind wanting to learn and explore like albert or richard can do infinitely more..

knocker i think you got it seriously wrong..

ajjack said:

Adolf got things done. He ended the Great Depression.

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My greatest fear right now is that war will again be seen by some as the "answer" to the economic troubles we have now.

jono1887 said:

what technological advancements would not exist if not for WWII?? nuclear energy, nuclear weaponary?

if it wasnt for the race for nuclear weapons between germany and USA, there probably wouldnt be any nuclear weapons by now... are they really an advancement of modern technology that benefits society in any way?

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Nuclear energy was a by-product of the arms race / nuclear weapons development so that's one thing we may not have had. Useful yes, it's 16% of the world's electricity, but certainly no justification for murdering millions. And it could have been developed peacefully if we'd really wanted to.

Let's look at this objectively. Nope ... I can't.

My brain has gone into meltdown and I will have to reboot it in *safe mode* before I allow myself to retort to this thread. Joe Blow would be most displeased at the expletives and splenetic verbosity I would spew forth on this matter.

Not sure about the nuclear weapons from the Gerrys. I know they had a nuclear program for the establishment of a nuclear reactor for energy production, I think they may have got close to building a "dirty bomb" and tested one in late 1944 but all archival research suggests this is propoganda. Yanks got Oppenheimer etc for the Manhattan Project and successfully tested nuclear explosions on July 16, 1945.

look what he wwas able to acheive in terms of public programs, works etc comapred to the beaurocratic disasters of todays governments....

Hitelr wasn't too bad up to maby 1934 (night of long knives)

knocker said:

Some might dispute his methods, but if it were not for him and WW2 would the world be as advanced as it is today?

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It is indisputable that WWII brought with it many technological advances. From computer technology used to break German encryption to the jet engine, various medicines, nuclear sciences.

Has mankind benefited from these? Most definitely... Undeniably....

However... Firstly, we owe nothing to Hitler. Keep in mind that the Japanese kicked off WWII when they invaded China a few years before the commonly accepted date of 1939. The invasion of Poland was just a tipping point for the west to act. And second, who is to say that the loss of 40million people, some of which were the brightest most talented scientist, artists, writers, engineers of our time, did not stifle our technological advances? Also, whilst military driven advancements were significant, what about the toll taken on potential commercial advancements?

My personal opinion is that on a technological level, yes we are better off. But of course, WWII was a terrible event which I think most sane people wish never took place.

Hitler was very popular in Germany. After the war most Germans denied any knowledge of his real agenda. While he was winning they loved him.

I can see an analogy in this country.

You could look at it from another point of view though...

Without Hitler, the History channel would cease to exist as they'd have nothing to put on it....

Bernie Ecclestone copped a lot of flak when he said Hitler was able "to get things done"

He also said;

"In the end he got lost, so he wasn't a very good dictator.''

Mr Ecclestone added: "We did a terrible thing when we supported the idea of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He was the only one who could control'' Iraq.

"It was the same (with the Taliban in Afghanistan). We move into countries and we have no idea of the culture. The Americans probably thought Bosnia was a town in Miami. There are people starving in Africa and we sit back and do nothing but we get involved in things we should leave alone.''

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I agree. When we butt in we do more harm than good. People conveniently forget that Saddam hated Iran. A strong Iraq would have been a good buffer against Iran.

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,25735499-954,00.html

Smurf1976 said:

My greatest fear right now is that war will again be seen by some as the "answer" to the economic troubles we have now.

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Too true - in history when you have declining empires, it creates a power imbalance & usually ends in war. The great western democratic empire has recently begun that decline, so I wonder how long it will be before another Hitler surfaces from the scum pool.

Garpal Gumnut said:

Some threads are best left to die a decent death and this is one of them.

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I don't think so. It can provide some interesting discussion and no-one is forcing you to participate.

He was a monster.

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From your perspective. From his perspective and those of his followers, he was a great man. Neither would be incorrect.

Tink said:

History would have been better off without him..

Wherever we are today, we would have got there regardless

There are NO advantages to wars..

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We don't know whether we would be better off with out him. We have no idea what would have happened had he not taken power. Personally, I prefer he did exist, as the alternate timeline may have been far worse, particularly since many/most of us would not have been born.

There is no certainty that would be where we are today. It may have been far better, or far worse - there's just no way to know.

War certainly produces benefits. Without it, we would still be a bunch of disorganised hunter/gatherer tribes. Over the course of history, war has united populations, which has paved the way for great technological advance.

Hitler interned and killed all down syndrome all mentally ill, all intellectually handicapped in the Germanic race, to eradicate the percieved weaknesses of his beloved race

genocide is not getting the job done

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Define 'getting the job done'. If his aim was to improve the gene pool, then killing those with weaker genes would certainly achieve that. Genocide can in fact be getting the job done if it improves the gene pool. I don't expect most people lay aside their emotional bias and acknowledge this.

I'm with Trainspotter, all i can think on the subject is so full of expletives I can't say it out loud.

Do want to say that without all these technological miracles, the world would not be that badly off as people seem to think. Most of current technology is just destroying the planet, burning it down around us, piling up the rubbish, poisoning the water, etc etc. I really don't think it would be such a bad thing to not have some of this junk. Hitler started an end to a depression (not singlehandedly mind you, but that's what happened when the war ended, and he had a part in it, obviously) - but it also started the beginning of the credit boom. We would definitely have been better off without that.

Life back before 1929 or 1939 or 1945 was not awful - the people who lived back then enjoyed their lives. They worked, tended their vegetable gardens, saved up and bought radios to hear what was going on in the world, listened to jazz records on their gramaphones, drove cars on the weekend if they had the means... things were made better, made to last... nobody bought things they couldn't afford, and life was simpler and there was more emphasis on things that really matter like friends and family and health. (As opposed to now, where the things that seem to matter are the latest mobile phone, the biggest flatscreen tv, the latest car with heads-up displays and heated seats...)

Sure it'd be a technological step backwards to go back to that, but it might just be that life would be sweeter for it.