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Nice little story from Crikey Knobby..

Particularly interesting to see how highly trusted the ABC is for its news and current affairs versus a far more support for the commercial media.

And, yet again, The Daily Telegraph is Australia’s least trusted major newspaper. Only 48% of its readers had some or a lot of trust in it in January; now just 41% of readers have trust in the Telegraph, while 25% of readers have no trust at all in what they read in it, a figure rivalled only by the Herald Sun, for which 22% of its readers have no trust at all.

The collapse in trust in the Telegraph, which continues to run an aggressively pro-Coalition line months after the election campaign finished, follows a collapse in its sales: in 2013 sales fell by over 11% for its weekday edition, the same level as its Sunday edition and the biggest fall of any News Corp title, although not as big as the falls suffered by Fairfax’s metro titles.

The results suggest News Corp is on a difficult mission to convince consumers to join its war against the ABC, an organisation that, along with SBS, remains far more trusted for its news and current affairs content than News Corp outlets and newspapers generally.
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basilio said:
Regarding the situation with refugees and the Refugee Convention the Government solemnly claims it is following.

This is what the convention clearly, unequivocally states.


Is this what we see happening at the moment ?

http://www.unhcr.org/3b66c2aa10.html
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I realize this post does not really relate to to this particular thread, but in reply perhaps you should have let ASF readers in on the rest of your link....note my bolds.

The convention originated back in 1951 and I was witness to many refugees from Germany, Italy and the UK who came by boat with full documentation of ID and passports.......they were mostly good tradesman whom integrated into the community and and earned a living without relying upon welfare like the illegals we have here now......most of the modern illegals will be reliant on welfare from the Australian tax payers for the rest of their lives.

There are a few "IFS AND BUTS" which you did not reveal.

There is a fair bit of contradiction in the wording and it is all a matter of interpretation.

4
convention
and
protocol
The Convention does not however apply to all persons who might otherwise
satisfy the definition of a refugee in Article 1. In particular, the Convention
does not apply to those for whom there are serious reasons for considering
that they have committed war crimes or crimes against humanity, serious
non-political crimes, or are guilty of acts contrary to the purposes and prin-
ciples of the United Nations. The Convention also does not apply to those
refugees who benefit from the protection or assistance of a United Nations
agency other than UNHCR, such as refugees from Palestine who fall under
the auspices of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine
Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). Nor does the Convention apply to those
refugees who have a status equivalent to nationals in their country of asylum.
Apart from expanding the definition of a refugee, the Protocol obliges States
to comply with the substantive provisions of the 1951 Convention to all per-
sons covered by the refugee definition in Article 1, without any limitation
of date. Although related to the Convention in this way, the Protocol is an
independent instrument, accession to which is not limited to States parties
to the Convention.
Under the Convention and Protocol, there is a particular role for UNHCR.
States undertake to cooperate with UNHCR in the exercise of its functions,
which are set out in its Statute of 1950 along with a range of other General
Assembly resolutions, and, in particular, to facilitate this specific duty of
supervising the application of these instruments. By its Statute, UNHCR is
tasked with, among others, promoting international instruments for the pro-
tection of refugees, and supervising their application.
The fundamental importance and enduring relevance of the Convention and
the Protocol is widely recognized. In 2001, States parties issued a Declaration
reaffirming their commitment to the 1951 Convention and the 1967 Protocol,
and they recognized in particular that the core principle of
non-refoulement
is embedded in customary international law.
(4)
Moroever, the General Assem-
bly has frequently called upon States to become parties to these instruments.
 
basilio said:
Nice little story from Crikey Knobby..
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That poll by Essential report was taken back on the 17th January 2013.

It does not indicate how the poll was taken and where it was taken.......perhaps it might have been on entry into Q and A one Monday night......LOL.......Sure looks good though.
 
SirRumpole said:
If you gave equal time to the government on this, all you would get is 30 minutes of "no comment".

I think it's justifiable for the ABC and other media outlets to get a bit shirty and say to the government in effect "if you don't talk to us, the other side will".

The idea that a few unarmed refugees in a leaky boat is a national security threat is absurd. If the government won't talk, the media will find other ways to get the facts, if they are doing their jobs.
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You are perhaps missing the point about what the government is doing. They are, so far successfully, establishing an absolute deterrent to both people smugglers and people who can afford to pay them, that they can just arrive in Australia and automatically attain participation in our welfare system. Whilst in the meantime those genuinely determined refugees who have been waiting often for many years in various UNHCR camps throughout the world, with no money to pay people smugglers, are denied their admission to Australia via our humanitarian refugee program. For every boat arrival admitted, that's one less established refugee able to come.


basilio said:
In theory, in a democracy, in an open society, a critical role of the media is to hold politicians to account. To question what has been done in our name. To hold a light to practices that some politicians, businesses or unions might like to keep in hiding. To give the public an open, honest and informed understanding on what is happening around them.
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Oh right, basilio. The problem is that the ABC presents this 'open, honest and informed understanding' largely from the Left view. Can't you get that this is what the problem is with the ABC? I suppose not, because you share their ideology so in your view they will be preaching what is absolutely correct and balanced.


____________________________________________________________________________________

By the way Julia just because the Government says it is obeying international conventions on refugees doesn't mean it actually is.
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I have made no determination about this. I don't know. I do know that if the government were to get completely fed up with the bleating about what they are trying to do, as outlined above, they could have Australia simply withdraw from the Refugee Convention.
I have often made the point above about well off 'asylum seekers' being admitted in favour of those patiently waiting in camps but it's something you have never, as far as I have seen, ever acknowledged the reality of.
We need an orderly migration program, not just a free for all which favours those able to pay smugglers.

Knobby22 said:
http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/12/18/trust-in-media-abc-still-leads-telegraph-takes-a-hit/
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As noco has pointed, this is more than eighteen months old, and from a well known Left organ, Bernard Keane in particular being one of their most Left writers.

Essential is a Labor Party research offshot.

I note just one part as an example:
The trust of readers in individual newspaper mastheads has also generally fallen. The Age is Australia’s most trusted newspaper, with 68% of Victorian voters having some or a lot of trust in what they read in it, but it has fallen three points this year.
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The Age is "Australia's most trusted newspaper" with "68% of Victorian voters having some or a lot of trust in what they read in it".
Wow. They claim it's the most trusted newspaper in Australia on the basis of its Victorian readership.
Not only completely out of date but illogical as well.
 
Julia said:
Whilst in the meantime those genuinely determined refugees who have been waiting often for many years in various UNHCR camps throughout the world, with no money to pay people smugglers, are denied their admission to Australia via our humanitarian refugee program. For every boat arrival admitted, that's one less established refugee able to come.
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Julia, this is something I have written to my local member, Julie Bishop, about.

I can't for the life of me understand why the Coalition are not talking about the number of genuine refugees that have gained access to Australia because of the increased places their successful policy has made available. Surely it would make it much harder for the ABC, Labor/Greens and refugee advocates to spread their negativity if one could show the refugees who have been welcomed into the Australian community in the last year and who otherwise would still be languishing in UNHCR camps.
 
You are perhaps missing the point about what the government is doing. They are, so far successfully, establishing an absolute deterrent to both people smugglers and people who can afford to pay them, that they can just arrive in Australia and automatically attain participation in our welfare system. Whilst in the meantime those genuinely determined refugees who have been waiting often for many years in various UNHCR camps throughout the world, with no money to pay people smugglers, are denied their admission to Australia via our humanitarian refugee program. For every boat arrival admitted, that's one less established refugee able to come.
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I have no argument about that, however if the governments program is so successful, why the media blackout ? Shout it from the rooftops how well their program is working to discourage more refugees. The media lockout simply invites suspicion of their tactics and fires accusations of a coverup.

I believe the majority of the electorate approves of the end result of "Sovereign borders", but there is increasing suspicion of the underlying methods used and growing resentment at being kept in the dark by an arrogant Minister.

As someone once said "if people don't know what you are doing, they don't know what you are doing wrong".
 
SirRumpole said:
I have no argument about that, however if the governments program is so successful, why the media blackout ? Shout it from the rooftops how well their program is working to discourage more refugees. The media lockout simply invites suspicion of their tactics and fires accusations of a coverup.

I believe the majority of the electorate approves of the end result of "Sovereign borders", but there is increasing suspicion of the underlying methods used and growing resentment at being kept in the dark by an arrogant Minister.



As someone once said "if people don't know what you are doing, they don't know what you are doing wrong".
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Suck it up Sun Shine.....if that is the way they want to operate, so be it.......you can do little about it......so stop whinging.

Yes, and many of us have increasing suspicion of the underlying methods used by the ABC and we have had little choice but accept their modus operandi....FOR NOW.... but hopefully things are about to change....The ABC have followed the Fabian Society teachings....have control of the media and have a free reign to preach their propaganda in a very subtle way in an attempt to destroy and discredit any conservative Government.

Well, the Green/Labor left wing socialists did NOT always let us know what they were doing 2007/2013 so I believe they did not know what they were doing wrong......OR DID THEY?...I will leave others to decide that.
 
Suck it up Sun Shine.....if that is the way they want to operate, so be it.......you can do little about it......so stop whinging.
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Whining is something I can do about it, so I will, along with an increasing number of others.
 
Knobby22 said:
I have no problem with the Libs putting their stamp on the board and weeding out the left wing as long as they don't try to shut it down.
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I do, jack boots at the front door, its an outrage when a government (Abbott) politicises the ABC by appointing party members with minority views.
 
SirRumpole said:
Whining is something I can do about it, so I will, along with an increasing number of others.
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Its really quite serious with attempts to turn the ABC into a government mouth piece and the ongoing secrecy around asylum seeker boats.
When a government is allowed to operate in this manner bad things happen, remember the Australian public rank politicians as the least trusted (with good cause) and yet there are those here ignore that fact.

Now there is a precedent set around running an excuse to do stuff in secret, not report to either the parliament or public what happens when the other mob get in.............you will reap what you........
 
bellenuit said:
Surely it would make it much harder for the ABC, Labor/Greens and refugee advocates to spread their negativity if one could show the refugees who have been welcomed into the Australian community in the last year and who otherwise would still be languishing in UNHCR camps.
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They (ABC, Labor/Green) would not give a stuff about that aspect, its all about putting Abbott and Australia down.
 
bellenuit said:
Julia, this is something I have written to my local member, Julie Bishop, about.

I can't for the life of me understand why the Coalition are not talking about the number of genuine refugees that have gained access to Australia because of the increased places their successful policy has made available. Surely it would make it much harder for the ABC, Labor/Greens and refugee advocates to spread their negativity if one could show the refugees who have been welcomed into the Australian community in the last year and who otherwise would still be languishing in UNHCR camps.
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Bellenuit and Rumpole, perhaps the government do make this point but the media fail to print/broadcast it?

Or perhaps it's just another example of the government's failure to properly communicate its message.

IFocus said:
I do, jack boots at the front door, its an outrage when a government (Abbott) politicises the ABC by appointing party members with minority views.
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Oh, please. Minority views? Try to remember that it wasn't Labor and the Greens who won the election.

Give us a list of any conservative ABC Board members. Then give us a list of conservative presenters or producers across TV and radio.

If you don't count Amanda Vanstone's obscurely placed "Counterpoint" on RN for half an hour on Friday afternoons, which can only be loosely described as token conservatism simply because she was a Liberal Minister, every presenter demonstrates a clear Left bias.
It has been particularly noticeable with Robin Williams, presenter of The Science Show, who has relentlessly gone on with warmist dogma and really vituperative sneering of anyone who is not a disciple. There is never anyone with a contradictory view allowed on the program.

This same principle applies across ABC Radio. They constantly have guests who reflect their own views and it's just everyone agreeing with everyone else and total sneering about anyone with an alternate view.

If Mark Scott were to be replaced with someone who had a more even handed approach, the ABC could easily get back to being the great organisation it once was.
 
Calliope said:
Yes there are increasing levels of whinging and whining in support of the ABC's love of the illegals. What is your agenda? Open borders?
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Why don't you actually read what I have written instead of slinging mud on people who are not in total agreement with you. I bet if a Labor government had refused to speak to the people about this issue you would be yelling "communist repression of the media". Get used to criticism if your mob does the same thing.
 
SirRumpole said:
Why don't you actually read what I have written instead of slinging mud on people who are not in total agreement with you. I bet if a Labor government had refused to speak to the people about this issue you would be yelling "communist repression of the media". Get used to criticism if your mob does the same thing.
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There's no need to get grumpy Rumpy. I did read what you said. You said;

Whining is something I can do about it, so I will, along with an increasing number of others.
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I would never sling mud at you Rumpy. I was merely enquiring as you what is your agenda along with the other Labor/Green/ABC whiners.
Do you prefer open borders to border protection? All this whining about Morrison not telling you and the people smugglers his plans in advance, is just nonsense.
 
Calliope said:
There's no need to get grumpy Rumpy. I did read what you said. You said;



I would never sling mud at you Rumpy. I was merely enquiring as you what is your agenda along with the other Labor/Green/ABC whiners.
Do you prefer open borders to border protection? All this whining about Morrison not telling you and the people smugglers his plans in advance, is just nonsense.
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Calliope, I don't know what the lefties are complaining about?...I don't know why it is even being discussed?...furthermore it is all on the wrong thread.

The Government have stopped the que jumpers, they have saved lives and halted the burden on the Australian tax payers.

There are lot more deserving people wanting to flee far greater oppression and persecution than these economic illegals but they cannot afford it.......Let the Government bring in refugees in a more organized, legal and sustainable way and the Government will once the Green/Labor socialist left wing mess has settled down......They have put the fire out and now it time to clear the wreckage away first.

The Government have a quota of refugees which we can afford to assist and it will done in due course in the proper manner.

The problem with the Fabian Society indoctrinated Green/Labor socialist left wing party is they dislike the Government success because I remember them saying it cannot be done and it is sticking in their gisset so they now have to carry on like a pork chop at a Jewish picnic.
 
Calliope said:
Yes there are increasing levels of whinging and whining in support of the ABC's love of the illegals. What is your agenda? Open borders?
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Calliope said:
There's no need to get grumpy Rumpy.
Do you prefer open borders to border protection? All this whining about Morrison not telling you and the people smugglers his plans in advance, is just nonsense.
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Calliope, Rumpole simply expressed his dislike of the lack of information being provided by the government.
Much of the population, even that part which supports the harsh measures needed to provide a deterrent to people smugglers and their clients, feels similarly.

Surely that's no reason for you to once again attribute to him a disagreement about border protection?
It's something you do constantly and imho contributes nothing constructive to the discussion.

banco said:
When didn't it have a left wing bias?
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Thank you for acknowledging the reality rather than suggesting any sort of balance would represent the view of a minority.

Yes, in the 22 years I've been familiar with the ABC there has been some left bias, but it has become vicious in the last few years. It's not just the ABC. Fairfax joins in, along with Crikey. Nasty stuff like the depiction of Chris Kenny ****ing a dog.
 
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