Is Shorten PM material?

[noco]

Link doesn't work for me. Maybe I'm blocked. LOL

If it's compulsory to take a choice of absolutes I'd say Shorten can't be fabianist - not with his current ideology. I describe him as a neo liberalist. Socialist websites regularly condemn Labor's polices. Shorten is a member of the Labor right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Right#Federal_Members_of_the_Labor_Right

Further reading:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...luence-on-labor-party-machine-20150421-1mpqte

Shorten is a full blown Fabian.

You obviously did not read the full list so I will post it again just for you.

http://takebackaustralia.aussieblogs.com.au/2011/01/08/fabian-society-and-the-alp/

 

[PZ99]

Shorten is a full blown Fabian.

You obviously did not read the full list so I will post it again just for you.

http://takebackaustralia.aussieblogs.com.au/2011/01/08/fabian-society-and-the-alp/

I did read the list. How else would I know that Paul Keating was on it if I didn't?

Shorten is a full blown Labor Right member as per the link I posted earlier

 

[noco]

I did read the list. How else would I know that Paul Keating was on it if I didn't?

Shorten is a full blown Labor Right member as per the link I posted earlier

Sorry, you can't have 2 bob each way.....Whether Shorten is left, right or centre......You can't set off a smoke screen to cover his tracks......Shorten is a Fabian FULL STOP.

There no difference between Fabianism and Leninist communism.

 

[noco]

You continue to use Fabian in a derogatory manner which I understand as you clearly have a fascist ideology. But I think most people both left and right of center would agree that society functions best with both capitalist and socialist elements, we need the capitalist economy to maximize productivity and efficiency and we need the socialist aspect to provide an adequate safety net for all. It's a delicate task finding a balance between the two economic systems and quite easy to extend too far in one direction but overall Australia does a good job overall of finding that balance.

So how do you describe fascist ideology?
Or is that just the usual juvenile Fabian rhetoric to ridicule an opponent because you have nothing better to add.?

 

[PZ99]

Sorry, you can't have 2 bob each way.....

Actually, I can. And will. The facts support my viewpoint.

Whether Shorten is left, right or centre......You can't set off a smoke screen to cover his tracks......Shorten is a Fabian FULL STOP.

Smoke screening (or to keep on pounding that term as you put it) is to repeat your opinion over and over again until anyone who disagrees with it leaves the thread out of boredom or frustration. That strategy will fail

Shorten is a full blown Labor Right member .

 

[noco]

Actually, I can. And will. The facts support my viewpoint.

Smoke screening (or to keep on pounding that term as you put it) is to repeat your opinion over and over again until anyone who disagrees with it leaves the thread out of boredom or frustration. That strategy will fail

Shorten is a full blown Labor Right member .

 

[PZ99]

Good point.

BILL Shorten wants to restart debate on whether Labor should maintain its near-century-long commitment to democratic socialism and is open to removing the symbolic mission statement from the party’s constitution.
Although few inside Labor are prepared to call for Labor’s 1921 socialist objective to be abolished, former prime minister Paul Keating says it is no longer relevant. “It’s now such an anachronistic description of what we are or need to be as to not warrant any continuing attachment,” Mr Keating says in a new book. “Of course it should be abolished.”

The socialist objective describes Labor as “a democratic socialist party” and binds members to support “the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation ... in these fields”.
The Opposition Leader is welcoming debate as part of his plans to rebuild Labor. He has described it to colleagues as being “as useful as a 100-year-old street directory” and of little value in economic policymaking. Although Mr Shorten does not see abolishing the objective as a priority, and acknowledges there is a range of views inside the party, sources say he does not see it as relevant to the party’s future.

At a Fabian Society forum in Sydney tomorrow, opposition Treasury spokesman Chris Bowen will reiterate his call for the objective to be abolished. “It’s time to scrap the socialist objective and have a clear, concise and modern explanation of Labor’s governing philosophy,” Mr Bowen writes in his book Hearts and Minds. “We can’t expect the public to be clear about what Labor stands for if we are not clear about this ourselves."

“My starting point in any debate will be support for social democracy.”

In an interview for Rudd, Gillard and Beyond, Mr Shorten said he did not describe himself as a “classical socialist” and did not support state ownership of the means of production.

The current objective was adopted three decades after the party was founded. It has long been contested and open to interpretation. In 1951, Labor resolved to pursue it only “to the extent necessary”.

However, many on Labor’s Left are opposed. ALP national president Jenny McAlister, from the Left, told The Australian she did not support altering the party’s core objective. “We should always be open to refreshing our philosophy and approach.

The word “democratic” was added in 1957. A review in 1981 led to keeping the objective. Gough Whitlam, Bob Hawke and Kevin Rudd have also voiced support for the objective to be replaced.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...k=e9bbac719df9f4e81c3347abd9650d30-1484266526

That was in 2014. Labor have shifted even further to the right since then.

 

[noco]

Look, if anyone wants to leave this thread, as you say out of boredom, then that is their choice.
So if this all getting too much for you and are becoming bored with it all, let yourself be the first to leave.

If you cannot accept the fact the Shorten is a full blown Fabian, that is your problem.

I might also take this opportunity to remind you Bill Shorten is a foundation member and past member of the board of GETUP....You have heard of GETUP?.....GETUP is the propaganda machine along with the ABC for the Green/Labor left wing socialist Fabian coalition.

 

[noco]

Good point.

BILL Shorten wants to restart debate on whether Labor should maintain its near-century-long commitment to democratic socialism and is open to removing the symbolic mission statement from the party’s constitution.
Although few inside Labor are prepared to call for Labor’s 1921 socialist objective to be abolished, former prime minister Paul Keating says it is no longer relevant. “It’s now such an anachronistic description of what we are or need to be as to not warrant any continuing attachment,” Mr Keating says in a new book. “Of course it should be abolished.”

The socialist objective describes Labor as “a democratic socialist party” and binds members to support “the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation ... in these fields”.
The Opposition Leader is welcoming debate as part of his plans to rebuild Labor. He has described it to colleagues as being “as useful as a 100-year-old street directory” and of little value in economic policymaking. Although Mr Shorten does not see abolishing the objective as a priority, and acknowledges there is a range of views inside the party, sources say he does not see it as relevant to the party’s future.

At a Fabian Society forum in Sydney tomorrow, opposition Treasury spokesman Chris Bowen will reiterate his call for the objective to be abolished. “It’s time to scrap the socialist objective and have a clear, concise and modern explanation of Labor’s governing philosophy,” Mr Bowen writes in his book Hearts and Minds. “We can’t expect the public to be clear about what Labor stands for if we are not clear about this ourselves."

“My starting point in any debate will be support for social democracy.”

In an interview for Rudd, Gillard and Beyond, Mr Shorten said he did not describe himself as a “classical socialist” and did not support state ownership of the means of production.

The current objective was adopted three decades after the party was founded. It has long been contested and open to interpretation. In 1951, Labor resolved to pursue it only “to the extent necessary”.

However, many on Labor’s Left are opposed. ALP national president Jenny McAlister, from the Left, told The Australian she did not support altering the party’s core objective. “We should always be open to refreshing our philosophy and approach.

The word “democratic” was added in 1957. A review in 1981 led to keeping the objective. Gough Whitlam, Bob Hawke and Kevin Rudd have also voiced support for the objective to be replaced.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...k=e9bbac719df9f4e81c3347abd9650d30-1484266526

That was in 2014. Labor have shifted even further to the right since then.

The Labor Party are all talk and no action...They have been talking about since the mid 80's but they are all too frightened to pursue it in case it splits the Labor Party down the middle. While you have the hard core left wing unions, who control the Labor Party, there will be little chance of that happening.

You seem to have forgotten who bankrolls and controls the Labor Party.

 

[PZ99]

Look, if anyone wants to leave this thread, as you say out of boredom, then that is their choice.
So if this all getting too much for you and are becoming bored with it all, let yourself be the first to leave.

I'm not going anywhere.

If you cannot accept the fact the Shorten is a full blown Fabian, that is your problem.

Actually, it's your problem. Because you are posting your opinion and pretending it to be a fact. It's a typical right wing elitist strategy.

I might also take this opportunity to remind you Bill Shorten is a foundation member and past member of the board of GETUP....You have heard of GETUP?.....GETUP is the propaganda machine along with the ABC for the Green/Labor left wing socialist Fabian coalition.

Couldn't care less about GETUP. GETUP only happened because of John Howard's far right wing lunacy when he gained control of the senate. He was fired by the ABC. Lib cry babies have been attacking it ever since which is good because they are opening the door into their unhappy world.

 

[SirRumpole]

You seem to have forgotten who bankrolls and controls the Labor Party.

We know who bankrolls and controls the Liberals too.

That's why we keep alternating governments every couple of terms to keep the b@stards at least half honest.

 

[PZ99]

The Labor Party are all talk and no action...They have been talking about since the mid 80's but they are all too frightened to pursue it in case it splits the Labor Party down the middle. While you have the hard core left wing unions, who control the Labor Party, there will be little chance of that happening.

You seem to have forgotten who bankrolls and controls the Labor Party.

Most of the hard core unions are actually right wing.

You seem to have forgotten who put Bill Shorten there in the first place.

 

[noco]

I'm not going anywhere.

Actually, it's your problem. Because you are posting your opinion and pretending it to be a fact. It's a typical right wing elitist strategy.


Couldn't care less about GETUP. GETUP only happened because of John Howard's far right wing lunacy when he gain control of the senate. He was fired by the ABC. Lib cry babies have been attacking it ever since.

Why is it my problem when you are getting your knickers in a knot over factual information.

If you cannot hack the truth, then that is your problem not mine....If you are bored with all this, then have a choice.

 

[PZ99]

Why is it my problem when you are getting your knickers in a knot over factual information.

If you cannot hack the truth, then that is your problem not mine....If you are bored with all this, then have a choice.

It's your problem because you are not posting factual information. You are posting an opinion.

You seem to have a problem understanding that alternative viewpoints are just as valid as yours.

 

[SirRumpole]

Why is it my problem when you are getting your knickers in a knot over factual information.

If you cannot hack the truth, then that is your problem not mine....If you are bored with all this, then have a choice.

You are the one driving people away from this site with your meaningless diatribes, quoting opinions of people (like Larry Pickering) who are so far off the planet that they could open a moonbase.

This forum is for intelligent debate not just rants, please do us a favour and at least try to get some facts behind what you are saying or join a far Right Wing blog where you will feel at home.

 

[noco]

You are the one driving people away from this site with your meaningless diatribes, quoting opinions of people (like Larry Pickering) who are so far off the planet that they could open a moonbase.

This forum is for intelligent debate not just rants, please do us a favour and at least try to get some facts behind what you are saying or join a far Right Wing blog where you will feel at home.

My oh my you are getting angry and you are making it so clear to viewers on this site that you cannot stand the truth so once again you revert to the old Fabian method of character assassination and ridicule and it so juvenile to say the least.

Been driving people away???????????....There are plenty of viewers who are taking note....Follow the stats on the thread.

I have been quoting the facts about Bill Shorten being a little Fabian and you don't like it because it goes against your grain when I brand Shorten for what he is.
I feel sorry for you Rumpy.

 

[noco]

It's your problem because you are not posting factual information. You are posting an opinion.

You seem to have a problem understanding that alternative viewpoints are just as valid as yours.

You are talking through your hat.......I have given you the list of Labor Fabians (Communists) and Bill Shorten is there...It is not an opinion....Sorry if you cannot accept that point....All the smoke screens you put up will not cover the facts

There is an old saying, "IF IT IS TOO HOT IN THE KITCHEN THEN GET OUT".

 

[noco]

We know who bankrolls and controls the Liberals too.

That's why we keep alternating governments every couple of terms to keep the b@stards at least half honest.

So what is the problem with that...All donations are thankfully accepted.....The problem with the Labor Party is they are controlled by the unions...Even the CFMEU chief said "if Labor do not do what they want, they, the unions, will take over the Labor Party."

 

[PZ99]

There is an old saying, "IF IT IS TOO HOT IN THE KITCHEN THEN GET OUT".

Told you before. I'm not going anywhere. Why are you shouting?

You are talking through your hat.......I have given you the list of Labor Fabians (Communists) and Bill Shorten is there...

Yeah, yeah, yeah we've read all that prima donna.

It is not an opinion....

It's not even a fact. Membership of a group doesn't mean it controls everything you say and do unless you have a malleable mind. So while it might explain your own ignorance followed by arrogance it says nothing about a so-called fabianist member in the right wing faction of a party.

Sorry if you cannot accept that point....All the smoke screens you put up will not cover the facts

Most others will consider it to be an opposing opinion. If it looks like a smoke screen to you then either it's because it challenges your superiority complex or it's just beyond your comprehension.

 

[noco]

Told you before. I'm not going anywhere. Why are you shouting?

Yeah, yeah, yeah we've read all that prima donna.

It's not even a fact. Membership of a group doesn't mean it controls everything you say and do unless you have a malleable mind. So while it might explain your own ignorance followed by arrogance it says nothing about a so-called fabianist member in the right wing faction of a party.

Most others will consider it to be an opposing opinion. If it looks like a smoke screen to you then either it's because it challenges your superiority complex or it's just beyond your comprehension.

Shouting????....It is because you are not listening.......I think you should also take the blinkers off and let the Sun shine in because you are not absorbing the truth about Billy Boy...The great Fabian.

Rumpy states I am driving people away from the forum.....I see you and he are still sticking around.

A good little Fabian must follow the rules no matter whether they are left, right or center.

Rumpy seems to be the one doing all the ranting and it is because he doesn't like what is thrown up at him about Comrade Shorten......

Don't ya just love it?

BTW..there have been 91 viewers since 9am this morning.......Driving them away???....I don't think so.