Census - 9 August 2016

[McLovin]

Make your own mind, this country really needs a human right/5th amendment protection, we are still treated as convicts except that the rulers have changed and were from the rank..once...

Aside from grand juries, which part of the Fifth Amendment does Australia law not already protect?

The Fifth is just another ripoff of English law.

 

[Ves]

I also point out that the online census logs your IP address. Handy thing for a government to have when they are capturing meta data too.

They are most likely already able to get your IP address through other means.

Not really directed at McLovin, but a general comment:

The whole outrage over the Census and privacy is bizarre; for instance when the Coalition and the ALP waved through Mandatory Data Retention laws during the last parliament barely anyone batted an eyelid, especially not the media.

I don't get it. Much worse invasions of privacy have been happening for many years at both the government and corporate level and no one has seemed to care.

 

[McLovin]

They are most likely already able to get your IP address through other means.

I'm not suggesting they couldn't, but why the need? It's specifically being retained, not incidental to the data collection.

The whole outrage over the Census and privacy is bizarre; for instance when the Coalition and the ALP waved through Mandatory Data Retention laws during the last parliament barely anyone batted an eyelid, especially not the media.

I don't get it. Much worse invasions of privacy have been happening for many years at both the government and corporate level and no one has seemed to care.

And I was on here when those laws were being passed calling them a disgrace, but as usual was met with the "if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide". If people want to volunteer their information to the government or Facebook or Google that's their choice. All these laws are just the slow creep of the government invading people's private lives. When CCTV was first going to be introduced on George St in Sydney back in the mid-90s there was uproar about the invasion of privacy. No one says anything about it now. When sniffer dogs were introduced to NSW public transport there was uproar. No one says anything about it. The meta data stuff got through even though the AG had NFI about what it actually meant. And now the census is being run as a massive data collection project on individuals.

Wait for a terrorist attack in Australia and then the need to match the data to individuals "for national security".

 

[Wysiwyg]

I thought I posted on this thread about the collecting of census information being a help to law enforcement agencies in the fight against terrorism. Did anyone see that?

 

[SirRumpole]

I thought I posted on this thread about the collecting of census information being a help to law enforcement agencies in the fight against terrorism. Did anyone see that?

No sorry.

 

[basilio]

The more I look at the Census the more concerns I have about the risk of our personal information and identity being hijacked for a range of dangerous options.

The fact the previous head of the ABS has spoken out so strongly against the compulsory nature of of providing names is another brick in the wall. Nick Xenaphon has pulled together all the pieces of this smelly story and it stinks.

Census privacy fears: Nick Xenophon to withhold name in push for 'test case' Senator says he will seek amendments to act and challenge government’s ability to prosecute Australians


Gareth Hutchens
@grhutchens
email

Monday 8 August 2016 19.27 AEST
Last modified on Monday 8 August 2016 19.28 AEST
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The independent senator Nick Xenophon says he will refuse to include his name on his census form on Tuesday, knowing he could be prosecuted for it, because he is not convinced the national census does not present a huge privacy risk.

He says he is willing to make himself a test case to challenge the government’s ability to prosecute Australians for withholding their name from the census and he has not changed his mind despite speaking to the chief statistician of the Bureau of Statistics.

.....Bill McLennan, a former head of the ABS, has also warned that the ABS’s plan to collect and keep the name and address of every person in Australia would destroy people’s trust in the ABS, because it was trying to do so furtively.

“This is a direct and deliberate breach of the Australia’s privacy principles, which, to say the least, is a surprising action for the ABS to be taking,” McLennan has written.

He also says the ABS does not have the authority to collect peoples’ names in the 2016 census on a compulsory basis, despite what it has been telling the public.

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/08/the-greens-and-nick-xenophon-speak-out-against-the-census/

https://www.privacy.org.au/Papers/ABS-Census_2016_and_Privacy_v8.pdf
Excellent analysis by Bill McLennan on Privacy and the 2016 Census

 

[noco]

The more I look at the Census the more concerns I have about the risk of our personal information and identity being hijacked for a range of dangerous options.

The fact the previous head of the ABS has spoken out so strongly against the compulsory nature of of providing names is another brick in the wall. Nick Xenaphon has pulled together all the pieces of this smelly story and it stinks.



http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/08/the-greens-and-nick-xenophon-speak-out-against-the-census/

https://www.privacy.org.au/Papers/ABS-Census_2016_and_Privacy_v8.pdf
Excellent analysis by Bill McLennan on Privacy and the 2016 Census

So the off beat Xenaphone puts his head in the fire and you are going to do the same......What do you have to fear.....The ABS has guaranteed privacy for all....I cannot see the problem.

How do you expect the Government to misuse the information.....You have to put your name on your tax return.

 

[trainspotter]

The guvmint is simply "back testing" the information they have on you now. They are just aligning your residential address with your Census number to ensure the information they have is correct.

The fun will start when people claiming defacto status or Part A & B family allowance tax etc will hit the spinning blades thusly saving the tax payers millions in handouts.

 

[noco]

The guvmint is simply "back testing" the information they have on you now. They are just aligning your residential address with your Census number to ensure the information they have is correct.

The fun will start when people claiming defacto status or Part A & B family allowance tax etc will hit the spinning blades thusly saving the tax payers millions in handouts.

So in other words those refusing to put their names on paper are frightened of losing their Government handouts....I now see it all......There are those who are really taking money from the government illegitimately and don't want to be found out....Well BULLY for them.

 

[trainspotter]

So in other words those refusing to put their names on paper are frightened of losing their Government handouts....I now see it all......There are those who are really taking money from the government illegitimately and don't want to be found out....Well BULLY for them.

YES noco ... it is about trimming the curve. A snip here and a snip there ...well you know the rest. Tightening of the belt and all that ... eh what !

 

[Tisme]

So the off beat Xenaphone puts his head in the fire and you are going to do the same......What do you have to fear.....The ABS has guaranteed privacy for all....I cannot see the problem.

How do you expect the Government to misuse the information.....You have to put your name on your tax return.

Don't you remember the Australia Card Noco? Back then we were all still sensitive to the threat to personal freedoms of the fascist regimes a generation before.

True it doesn't worry me to cough up my details, but I think that should be a voluntary activity.

 

[trainspotter]

This Census, the ABS will keep name-identified information for longer than it has previously. Names and addresses will now be kept for up to 4 years (previously it was around 18 months) in order to link Census data sets to other collections, before being destroyed.

Does that mean the government can link up your Census answers with your tax return or Centrelink information?

No. The ABS cannot do this and there are large penalties for this sort of information sharing. Even if it were allowed, it’s also very hard for this to occur as the questions asked by different agencies are not the same, making it almost impossible to compare the data. From a statistics perspective, if you ask a different question you cannot align the data. For example, the taxable income information you supply to the ATO is different to the income information you provide in the Census. The Census asks, “What is the usual amount you receive each week in income?” which is collected in broad income ranges and does not include any pensions or allowances.

But to reiterate, the ABS cannot and will not share any personal information with other departments or private companies. This will never happen.

http://blog.id.com.au/2016/population/australian-census-2016/census-2016-questions-answered/

And if you believe that then you should start wearing one of these ....

 

[So_Cynical]

I didn't receive a personalized form in the mail.

 

[Logique]

The more I look at the Census the more concerns I have about the risk of our personal information and identity being hijacked for a range of dangerous options.

The fact the previous head of the ABS has spoken out so strongly against the compulsory nature of of providing names is another brick in the wall. Nick Xenaphon has pulled together all the pieces of this smelly story and it stinks.
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/08/the-greens-and-nick-xenophon-speak-out-against-the-census/
https://www.privacy.org.au/Papers/ABS-Census_2016_and_Privacy_v8.pdf
Excellent analysis by Bill McLennan on Privacy and the 2016 Census

Some Federal and State Greens pollies have also announced today they won't be providing their names.

A test case is a good idea, and I hope Xenophon and the Greens force one. This has been an ambush by the ABS.

 

[SmokeyGhost]

Don't thunk I can even complete the thing. I don't recall receiving nuffin in the mail from the ABS but then it seems it was a generic letter such as "To the householder." If so, it's probably been recycled as waste as I tend to look at to whom a letter is addressed not who it's from. That stuff is just advertising junk to me so I immediately throw it out.

And I've tried the hotline but I'm not prepared to wait on the frigging phone for two or more hours because they're busy.

Oh well, I'll simply see what happens. Something usually does.

 

[Knobby22]

Some Federal and State Greens pollies have also announced today they won't be providing their names.

A test case is a good idea, and I hope Xenophon and the Greens force one. This has been an ambush by the ABS.

They can trace us all using other methods anyway if they wanted to, mobile phone, tax, credit card, you name it. It's just to make it easy. if we get over a 10% non compliance factor (like the last election) it will pretty much be a waste of time and money.

 

[Bill M]

Just got on the census.abs.gov.au
site and this message was there:

---
We are experiencing a high volume of calls

Do not worry if you have not received your Census materials. You will not be fined if you complete your Census after Census night. Try calling again after August 10 when we expect call volumes to reduce.
---

 

[bellenuit]

They can trace us all using other methods anyway if they wanted to, mobile phone, tax, credit card, you name it. It's just to make it easy. if we get over a 10% non compliance factor (like the last election) it will pretty much be a waste of time and money.

Well, since the forms were mailed to our residential addresses and presumably our unique login key is linked to that, it shouldn't be hard to find out who is who. Particularly when Age and Sex is also specified. A bit harder for tenanted property, but not impossible.

 

[Bill M]

Just did mine, only took 20 minutes, not a big deal. I'm not at all worried about giving my name and address, they know all about me already, in multiple ways.

 

[peter2]

This organisation had five years to prepare for this census. What a mess! I haven't received any notice and I can't get through on the phone to order a form without the nine-digit code. Why didn't they print a few million forms and distribute them to Post Offices or newsagents?

This organistion has the audacity to think they are capable of reporting accurate data to the government!

Edit: Good grief, I've posted in the general chat section!