Union Corruption

[noco]

I do not know about each union or workplace in Australia and frankly I do not care. All I know is at the floor level we would have been screwed over many times if we did not have our our unions protecting us. You know, real experiences in my and my families workplaces. I still have a family member working for a large supermarket chain, they still try to get away with certain things that go against the present enterprise agreement. All they need to do is stick to the rules. What a casino does up in north Queensland is of no interest to me, sorry, I can't look out for the whole country.

You can't look after the whole country?????Well, stop praising the corrupt unions...The unions are only looking after themselves just as politicians do I am sorry to say.

Yeah....the unions did a great job for the employees of Coles.....The enterprise agreement was never put to Coles employees.....It was all done behind closed doors in return for unauthorized union membership....More money for the corrupt unions.,,,Fair Work Australia knocked it back.

You don't have to go to the unions to fight for your rights...Just go to Fair Work Australia.

 

[Bill M]

The problem is Bill M stated the unions do not have any connection with Greens and we all know they have accepted lots of donation from the unions.

I have never stated anything like that. I think you mixing me up with someone else.

You can't look after the whole country?????Well, stop praising the corrupt unions...The unions are only looking after themselves just as politicians do I am sorry to say.

I praise whoever looks after the pleb on the tools/the shop floor that needs a voice and can't defend themselves. I have given you more than enough examples of how bosses or companies rip off innocent workers. Nothing more needs to said on the matter.

 

[noco]

I have never stated anything like that. I think you mixing me up with someone else.



I praise whoever looks after the pleb on the tools/the shop floor that needs a voice and can't defend themselves. I have given you more than enough examples of how bosses or companies rip off innocent workers. Nothing more needs to said on the matter.

I did not accuse you at all.

Perhaps you should read my post #37 again and you will note it was directed to explod and not you.

Nothing more to be said???????...Looks like you have lost your argument about your righteous corrupt unions and don't like what I have told you....You just do not want to hear about their dirty deals which do not favor the employees.

 

[Smurf1976]

I guess i worked for a fair and reasonable business for many years and i'm a little tainted by that. If someone is legally entitled to something under an act, law or agreement, then an employer should honor that. For a supervisor or manager to deny that is just plain poor management practice.

90% of what I've seen unions do relates to simply enforcing the law. The rest relates to comparing one employer with another and arguing that employees working for x shouldn't be substantially worse off than what the rest of the market is offering for comparable work.

Ideally we shouldn't need unions to do that but in practice we do. An individual employee quite likely won't be able to afford the cost of professional legal assistance should it become necessary whereas a union can and will pool resources to make it happen.

If employers wanted to get rid of unions then all they need to do is make them obsolete by simply following the letter of the law. Someone is supposed to be paid x, well then pay them x without question. Someone is bullied by their manager - OK then, bring in a private investigator and if necessary sack the manager. Etc. Some employers do the right thing but there will always be some who don't and that's where unions become necessary.

Over the years I've worked for brilliant bosses and terrible ones as have many. So long as there are duds around there will be a role for unions just as we'll need police so long as we have criminals. If everyone just followed the law then we could do away with unions, police, courts, lawyers and so on and save a fortune but I can't see it happening.

 

[Smurf1976]

for my own interest, which union is this? if private feel free to PM/abstain

I'm a member of the CEPU (Communications, Electrical and Plumbing Union).

I've worked as a tradesman "on the tools" and I've also been a boss. I've had good bosses and bad just as I've encountered good staff and bad. I've also encountered good unions and dud ones so I've seen most of what can go wrong and what can go right.

 

[qldfrog]

I'm a member of the CEPU (Communications, Electrical and Plumbing Union).

I've worked as a tradesman "on the tools" and I've also been a boss. I've had good bosses and bad just as I've encountered good staff and bad. I've also encountered good unions and dud ones so I've seen most of what can go wrong and what can go right.

Thanks Smurf, have to say I never heard of CEPU until today which probably is a good thing: not aiming on publicity but real work.
Nice to know.Have a great week end.

 

[SirRumpole]

The unions got a bad name in the 70's and 80's when some of them would strike at the drop of a hat leaving the public without public transport, airlines or fuel.

The Builders Labourers were probably on strike more times than they were working, but they did save some historic sites from development.

Fortunately things seem to have calmed down on the strike front as a lot of the militant leaders have been replaced. The CFMEU seems to be a rogue union that needs to be dealt with somehow.

Ultimately the unions will be worth what their members think they are worth, as long as they remain democratic.

The falling rates of membership indicate that members either don't think they are doing their jobs or that they will get the benefits of union action through higher awards anyway, so why spend the money up front ? This seems like having your cake and eating it too.

 

[Bill M]

I did not accuse you at all.

Perhaps you should read my post #37 again and you will note it was directed to explod and not you.

It is in post #40 you said "The problem is Bill M stated the unions do not have any connection with Greens". I never said this, please try to stay focused and stop saying things that aren't true.

Nothing more to be said???????...Looks like you have lost your argument about your righteous corrupt unions and don't like what I have told you....You just do not want to hear about their dirty deals which do not favor the employees.

There is corruption all around us nocco, from government, big business, unions, police and every other organisation out there and of course the union being no exemption. If there is wrong doing then it needs to be fixed, that is not up to me or you, it is up to those in power.

The dealings that I have had with 3 different unions in my life were all about helping the membership at floor level. Looking after conditions, hours of work, safety etc. When I was a delegate for 2 years I never got paid for it and rarely did I ever get any time off for training. It was unpaid work and sometimes carried over into my own time. looking after people on the shop floor, the lowest paid in the workforce is what I care about, these are the people that get cheated the most. (many example above) Unions in some workplaces are as relevant now as what they have always been. Many have said, in a perfect situation you have good staff and good bosses and you don't need Unions, good and well. I agree but unfortunately it is not a perfect world out there.

 

[Bill M]

90% of what I've seen unions do relates to simply enforcing the law. The rest relates to comparing one employer with another and arguing that employees working for x shouldn't be substantially worse off than what the rest of the market is offering for comparable work.

Ideally we shouldn't need unions to do that but in practice we do. An individual employee quite likely won't be able to afford the cost of professional legal assistance should it become necessary whereas a union can and will pool resources to make it happen.

If employers wanted to get rid of unions then all they need to do is make them obsolete by simply following the letter of the law. Someone is supposed to be paid x, well then pay them x without question. Someone is bullied by their manager - OK then, bring in a private investigator and if necessary sack the manager. Etc. Some employers do the right thing but there will always be some who don't and that's where unions become necessary.

Over the years I've worked for brilliant bosses and terrible ones as have many. So long as there are duds around there will be a role for unions just as we'll need police so long as we have criminals. If everyone just followed the law then we could do away with unions, police, courts, lawyers and so on and save a fortune but I can't see it happening.

Perfect, spot on, I couldn't have said it better. Your experiences are my experiences too, thanks for sharing.

 

[noco]

It is in post #40 you said "The problem is Bill M stated the unions do not have any connection with Greens". I never said this, please try to stay focused and stop saying things that aren't true.



There is corruption all around us nocco, from government, big business, unions, police and every other organisation out there and of course the union being no exemption. If there is wrong doing then it needs to be fixed, that is not up to me or you, it is up to those in power.

The dealings that I have had with 3 different unions in my life were all about helping the membership at floor level. Looking after conditions, hours of work, safety etc. When I was a delegate for 2 years I never got paid for it and rarely did I ever get any time off for training. It was unpaid work and sometimes carried over into my own time. looking after people on the shop floor, the lowest paid in the workforce is what I care about, these are the people that get cheated the most. (many example above) Unions in some workplaces are as relevant now as what they have always been. Many have said, in a perfect situation you have good staff and good bosses and you don't need Unions, good and well. I agree but unfortunately it is not a perfect world out there.

OK..please accept my apology....I did get you mixed up with explod.

You praise the unions as being good guys who look after the interests of the working man, but I would still like your comment on the dirty deals down by unions who exploited the workers to gain cash for the union coffers....Do you still consider these corrupt unions did the right thing by the workers of those companies I mentioned previously?...And what about the corrupt CFMEU?...They are rotten to the core.

The problem is they have become corrupt because of the fall in membership and lack of union fees, so they have become desperate and resort to under handed tactics to gain finance to fill the union coffers and in return feed the Labor Party.

I still say we do not need corrupt unions when we have Fair Work Australia......Unionism has past its use by date...This is the 21 st century not the 19th.

 

[orr]

High Time for a Federally based Inderpendent Commision Against Corruption.... to root out this entrenched national scourge.

I can see 'Artha See-no-donors' championing the cause...

I believe there are some NSW ICAC findings soon to be released... can barely wait.

 

[Bill M]

I would still like your comment on the dirty deals down by unions who exploited the workers to gain cash for the union coffers....Do you still consider these corrupt unions did the right thing by the workers of those companies I mentioned previously?...And what about the corrupt CFMEU?...They are rotten to the core.

If a particular union is corrupt then there is no question that it should be exposed. Let the laws of the land deal with it. If that means dissolving a particular union like they did before then so be it. I am against corruption in all it's forms and from all areas. It should be stamped out. But lets be reasonable, not all unions are corrupt. Those who are doing a good job should be allowed to keep on looking after their members.

I still say we do not need corrupt unions when we have Fair Work Australia......Unionism has past its use by date...This is the 21 st century not the 19th.

I have a friend who worked with Fair Work Australia. He was assisting the bench on some high profile cases. He said each hearing took a considerable amount of time, some running into days, weeks. There is no way FWA could handle the amount of cases that happen everyday. They would need to employ lots more staff and build extra court rooms all over Australia. It isn't feasible. It is just better to deal with issues on the floor level at the time, ie: Typical issue, after 4 hours of continuous work each employee is entitled to a 10 minute toilet break. Do you know how many times a day a supermarket breaches this rule per day? It would work better to have a delegate on the ground making sure all the staff get their entitlements as per agreement rather than running to FWA for minor issues. FWA is really the place of last resort, where the 2 parties can not resolve their differences.

 

[poverty]

Typical issue, after 4 hours of continuous work each employee is entitled to a 10 minute toilet break. Do you know how many times a day a supermarket breaches this rule per day? It would work better to have a delegate on the ground making sure all the staff get their entitlements as per agreement rather than running to FWA for minor issues.

At least in Victoria 'supermarket' is not one thing. Coles, Woolworths etc all have their own EBA agreements negotiated with the SDA and then approved by FWA, they aren't the same.

 

[Tisme]

Worked for an Oz corporation back in the mid seventies that made sure the various boards included a quota of union representation ... seems to have worked well because it is now a dominant world player in its field. The company had a novel idea that team play and genuine employee inclusion might be of benefit to the collective and profit.

 

[SirRumpole]

Worked for an Oz corporation back in the mid seventies that made sure the various boards included a quota of union representation ... seems to have worked well because it is now a dominant world player in its field. The company had a novel idea that team play and genuine employee inclusion might be of benefit to the collective and profit.

 

[noco]

There has been a lot of media reports of Liberal, Labor and the Greens MPs past and present rorting the system but I would say the President of the Queensland Branch of the CFMEU tops them all.....He has been caught with his hand in the cookie jar....Should he resign or go to jail?

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...s-story/5ba48f1bd9d0bce459b2bb8bc03a627aThere

• Questions raised over union spending

A QUEENSLAND mining union boss racked up thousands of dollars on his corporate credit card on charges including fancy restaurants in Las Vegas and Whitsundays cruises.

Stephen Smyth, president of the CFMEU Queensland branch, even paid dentist, plumbing and butcher shop bills with his union MasterCard.

During a stay at a Las Vegas casino hotel in July and August 2015, Mr Smyth paid $632.60 while dining at Maggiano’s Little Italy where customers fork out $63 for a prime New York steak.

While in the same town, Mr Smyth spent $466.80 at the Mirage Hotel’s Portofino restaurant where “world-class executive chef Michael LaPlaca gives an unforgettable modern twist to classic Italian foods”.

The card details obtained by The Sunday Mail provide a window into the lavish lifestyles of union fat cats.

Last year Mr Smyth used his card to pay Cruise Whitsundays at Airlie Beach $1181.70. On May 6 last year his card was used to pay Spring Hill Dental $729.

Last week The Courier-Mail revealed an independent auditor has raised questions over the use of credit cards by executives in the branch.

media_cameraMr Smyth used his card to pay Cruise Whitsundays at Airlie Beach $1181.70.

Jason Croston of SRJ Walker Wayland said credit card expenses for the 2016 financial year totalled $721,116.

In a damning report he said there was insufficient evidence to verify that the credit card expenses were incurred solely for business purposes.

Mr Croston’s report was signed off in December by Mr Smyth and secretary Timothy David Whyte but hasn’t been lodged with Fair Work Australia. Mr Smyth and Mr Whyte declined repeated requests for interviews.

Mr Smyth is touring the US and Canada, and in a voicemail message said he would not return to work until February 1.

It is not known if he has repaid any personal spending


Autoplay
Union march in Brisbane0:49

Union members from CFMEU, ETU and the Plumber's Union of Queensland march in Brisbane to protect local jobs on Queen's Wharf casino project.

• November 30th 2016
• 2 months ago
• /video/video.news.com.au/News/

Union march in Brisbane
While many of the charges will be union-related expenses, it’s likely Mr Smyth will have some explaining to do to the new board of management meeting in March.

There was a $764 spend at Charles Porter hardware in Mackay in July 2015 and $935 the following month at Trade Link Plumbing Centre.

In January last year he spent $25.95 at Bunnings in Mackay. On August 4, 2015 his credit card was used to buy petrol in Mackay on the same day $125.60 was paid to a hotel in Las Vegas.

Mr Smyth’s card was used at Fresco’s Quality Meats in his home town of Mackay in July 2015 ($24) and August ($41.25).

media_camera"The Strip" in Las Vegas, Nevada.
He dined three times at Angelo’s on the Marina in 2015 and 2016 in Mackay, racking up bills of $232.60, $93.60 and $183.50.

He also dined out regularly in Brisbane. The statement shows spending at the Enjoy Inn, Fortitude Valley, of $637.40 on September 1, 2015, another $142.60 a month later and $72.80 in January 2016.

In April last year, $170.10 was spent at Sorbello’s Restaurant, Mackay, and $320 at Il Centro Restaurant in Brisbane in January 2016.

They weren’t all upscale dining spots. The statement is littered with charges from McDonald’s, Red Rooster, Donut Land and Cactus Jack’s.

The Palaszczuk Government used its final parliamentary sitting week in December last year to reverse a Newman government edict that union bosses must publish credit-card statements.

 

[Smurf1976]

As a member of a different union (CEPU) I get the distinct impression that the CFMEU is giving unions in general a bad name.

They just seem to be attracting attention for all the wrong reasons compared with other unions going about their business of representing members.

 

[SirRumpole]

They weren’t all upscale dining spots. The statement is littered with charges from McDonald’s, Red Rooster, Donut Land and Cactus Jack’s.

The Palaszczuk Government used its final parliamentary sitting week in December last year to reverse a Newman government edict that union bosses must publish credit-card statements.

Let's have all union leaders publishing their credit card statements, as well as all company executives and all politicians.

Any problems with that ?

 

[noco]

Let's have all union leaders publishing their credit card statements, as well as all company executives and all politicians.

Any problems with that ?

Rumpy, I agree with you on all union leaders and politicians being put under scrutiny because they are in public office and using money belonging to union members and politicians using taxpayers money.

With regards to company executives there is a difference in that they are normally responsible to a board of directors who are there to look after the interest of share holders...If company executives do the wrong thing by spending to excess, it is the share holders who will suffer in the return of lower dividends.....But having said that, I was in an executive position and my expenses were scrutinized every month by the financial controller.....I had to produce receipts on all expenses whether I was overseas or local.

So I hope you can appreciate there is a difference.

 

[SirRumpole]

So I hope you can appreciate there is a difference.

No there isn't really. Politicians will say that their expenses are scrutinised by the Auditor General, but they still get away with rorts.

Company execs spend shareholders money so they should be responsible to shareholders directly, not to someone appointed by the executives themselves.