Gay parenting

[ghotib]

I'm starting a new thread for this because I think it's a separate issue from gay marriage.

My question is: What's uniquely gay about gay parenting?

Of all the mundane, hilarious, terrifying, joyous, tender, infuriating, proud, teary, embarrassing, ferocious, peaceful moments that go into raising a child, what part is the same for all gay parents - couples or single - and different from all hetero parents - couples or singles?

I can't think of anything, which leads me to ask those who use the term: What do you mean by "gay parenting?

TIA

Ghoti

 

[SirRumpole]

I'm starting a new thread for this because I think it's a separate issue from gay marriage.

My question is: What's uniquely gay about gay parenting?

Of all the mundane, hilarious, terrifying, joyous, tender, infuriating, proud, teary, embarrassing, ferocious, peaceful moments that go into raising a child, what part is the same for all gay parents - couples or single - and different from all hetero parents - couples or singles?

I can't think of anything, which leads me to ask those who use the term: What do you mean by "gay parenting?

TIA

Ghoti

The process of parenting is probably the same for heterosexual or gay parents, but the effects on children being raised in an environment that will be most likely contradictory to their natural instincts could have effects later on in their lives.

 

[sydboy007]

The process of parenting is probably the same for heterosexual or gay parents, but the effects on children being raised in an environment that will be most likely contradictory to their natural instincts could have effects later on in their lives.

Could have?

So you're accepting the possibility there's no detrimental effect of same sex parents raising children?

Was just having lunch with a gay friend today who is raising 3 children with his partner. The issues he has with getting the kids to eat their dinner, going to bed, doing their homework and a myriad other things sounded just the same as my straight friends.

I'd back a loving same sex couple to raise kids than quite a few of the straight couples that have children that weren't really by choice and don't particularly show any interest in them.

 

[SirRumpole]

Could have?


I'd back a loving same sex couple to raise kids than quite a few of the straight couples that have children that weren't really by choice and don't particularly show any interest in them.

So you see no possibility that some gays aren't really interested in the kids but just use them as a shield so they can say "we are just like anyone else".

 

[wayneL]

Ok I'll buy in but will probably regret it.

I used to live around Caboolture (thankfully now reside in the more genteel western burbs) There I saw some of the most negative straight role models imaginable. And I'm not about to say gay couples always are better that the worst straight families either.

But as gays are increasingly accepted, its less of a problem for the kids.

It all depends on the individuals, Biological pedantry aside.

 

[SirRumpole]

There are certainly a lot of straight couples around who should never have kids, but that doesn't mean that all gay couples are excellent parents (I know you didn't imply that, just stating facts).

 

[scub]

People are people , for better or worse, mostly better when it comes to children.

Having children to look good sounds like an oxymoron.

I think there are some caveats.
Firstly the need for a same sex model to be an important part of a child's life to help him or her more easily develop a better sense of gender identity
Secondly to be closely exposed to respectful adult heterosexual relationships to learn the skills and roles involved in making such a relationship work.
Thirdly for a adolescent male with 2 mothers ,an alpha male presence , otherwise the boy is likely to take the role on with ,sometimes ,unfortunate out comes.
The same problems occur with single parent families

Fourthly pedophiles posing as gay couples could be a real risk to the whole process. Witness recent cases where they have taken an overseas wife and then adopted. (Having members of the Gay community as part of the adoption process would probably minimise such a risk)

Sorry , that is my lot ,I used to work as GP for kids . Pontificating is a hazard of the qualifications

 

[sydboy007]

So you see no possibility that some gays aren't really interested in the kids but just use them as a shield so they can say "we are just like anyone else".

Show me some evidence this is occurring.

How many straight parents have children because they feel that's what's expected? How many get pressured by parents and grand parents to have children they don't really want? May not be such an issue in the anglo world, but some asian and greek friends have felt quite a bit of pressure to pop out a bub or two, and received disapproval when they chose to be a childless married couple.

When all straight parents are perfect parents then I think you can start casting some stones.

Till then, judge the actual parents by how they treat their children than throwing a barrel of tar everywhere you can.

 

[SirRumpole]

Show me some evidence this is occurring.

Do you deny that it does ?

How many straight parents have children because they feel that's what's expected? How many get pressured by parents and grand parents to have children they don't really want?

Quite a few I'm sure, and they should resist that pressure if they don't want the kids.

When all straight parents are perfect parents then I think you can start casting some stones.

That's not a relevant argument because you imply that all gay parents are angels and I doubt that is true.

Till then, judge the actual parents by how they treat their children than throwing a barrel of tar everywhere you can.

That's not relevant either because no matter how well gay parents treat their children, there is still something missing in their upbringing. Male AND female role models are necessary for children to live in THEIR world as heterosexuals (as most of them will be).

You say you had a happy upbringing, but you appear to want to deny to others the roles that both your mother and father played in your upbringing. I don't think anyone has the right to do that.

 

[Value Collector]

There are certainly a lot of straight couples around who should never have kids, but that doesn't mean that all gay couples are excellent parents (I know you didn't imply that, just stating facts).

it seems to me that there is a lot more important factors that make a good or bad parent than just sexuality.

I think there is so many more important factors, that sexuality should basically be ignored, unless it can be shown through a broad based study that children raised by gays suffer in some material way due to the sexuality of their parents that's more than any of the common flaws in hetero couples who can legally parent despite those obvious flaws.

 

[SirRumpole]

it seems to me that there is a lot more important factors that make a good or bad parent than just sexuality.

I think there is so many more important factors, that sexuality should basically be ignored, unless it can be shown through a broad based study that children raised by gays suffer in some material way due to the sexuality of their parents that's more than any of the common flaws in hetero couples who can legally parent despite those obvious flaws.

As pointed out by children, now adults who have been raised by gay parents, some feel that they have been denied a vital part of their childhood, ie either a mother or father.

If you are going to ignore that evidence, that does in fact make you biased and incapable of forming a rational opinion on the topic.

If you want to compare "good" gay couples with "bad" heterosexuals, that's like comparing a good orange with a bad apple, they are two different things. The comparison should be on an "all else equal" basis, and on that comparison heterosexual biological parents provide better balance and family bonding than gay parents where one or both partners are not the biological parents of the child.

 

[Value Collector]

As pointed out by children, now adults who have been raised by gay parents, some feel that they have been denied a vital part of their childhood, ie either a mother or father.

If you are going to ignore that evidence, that does in fact make you biased and incapable of forming a rational opinion on the topic.

If you want to compare "good" gay couples with "bad" heterosexuals, that's like comparing a good orange with a bad apple, they are two different things. The comparison should be on an "all else equal" basis, and on that comparison heterosexual biological parents provide better balance and family bonding than gay parents where one or both partners are not the biological parents of the child.

So because some children feel they were denied of something, we should ban the whole concept?

Are you aware of any studies that show a large percentage of people raised in same sex marriages feel they were denied something? I mean you should atleast be able to prove that a majority feel this way before you are willing to ban something.

Secondly, how do you measure this against children of straight couples who feel they are denied something? Or had a poor outcome due to the situation their parents were in, you have admitted that there may be many cases where straight couples are far worse than gay couples, do we start banning couples from having children who are likely to give their children a less than optimal upbringing?

For example should we ban unmarried women from having children? Or just the lesbian ones?

 

[SirRumpole]

So because some children feel they were denied of something, we should ban the whole concept?

Are you aware of any studies that show a large percentage of people raised in same sex marriages feel they were denied something? I mean you should atleast be able to prove that a majority feel this way before you are willing to ban something.

Secondly, how do you measure this against children of straight couples who feel they are denied something? Or had a poor outcome due to the situation their parents were in, you have admitted that there may be many cases where straight couples are far worse than gay couples, do we start banning couples from having children who are likely to give their children a less than optimal upbringing?

For example should we ban unmarried women from having children? Or just the lesbian ones?

If you can't see anything wrong with heterosexual children being bought up in an environment that conflicts with their own sexuality, then you have lost all sense of reason.

Did you have a good upbringing with a mother and a father ? Would you prefer to trade in your mother for another father or your father for another mother ?

Why are you trying to deny others the benefits of a mother and father that you yourself enjoyed ?

You are so concentrated on being PC that you can't see that children have biological rights as well as legal ones.

 

[Value Collector]

If you can't see anything wrong with heterosexual children being bought up in an environment that conflicts with their own sexuality, then you have lost all sense of reason.

Did you have a good upbringing with a mother and a father ? Would you prefer to trade in your mother for another father or your father for another mother ?

Why are you trying to deny others the benefits of a mother and father that you yourself enjoyed ?

You are so concentrated on being PC that you can't see that children have biological rights as well as legal ones.

if there is something wrong with a heterosexual being brought up in an environment with gay parents, that needs to be proved by more than just anecdotal stories.

I wouldn't have swapped either my mother or my father, but no doubt children of gay parents feel the same way in the majority.

I ask again,

Are you in favour of banning single mothers in general or just the lesbian ones?

 

[SirRumpole]

Are you in favour of banning single mothers in general or just the lesbian ones?

Blimey VC, you say some silly things.

"Single mothers". In the vast majority of cases there is a father around somewhere who has access rights, gets to see the kids and has a part in their upbringing. Not so with lesbian "parents".

Just because gays "have" children by various fabrications does not mean society has to condone, endorse or promote those practices.

 

[Value Collector]

Blimey VC, you say some silly things.

"Single mothers". In the vast majority of cases there is a father around somewhere who has access rights, gets to see the kids and has a part in their upbringing. Not so with lesbian "parents".

Just because gays "have" children by various fabrications does not mean society has to condone, endorse or promote those practices.

I am talking about the situations where a female decides to have a child and raise it alone, without any contact with the father, whether it be from an intentional one night stand or agreement.

Are you willing to bring in a law that makes that sort of situation illegal? Or are you only concerned with those situations when it happens to be a lesbian couple?

 

[sydboy007]

Do you deny that it does ?



Quite a few I'm sure, and they should resist that pressure if they don't want the kids.



That's not a relevant argument because you imply that all gay parents are angels and I doubt that is true.



That's not relevant either because no matter how well gay parents treat their children, there is still something missing in their upbringing. Male AND female role models are necessary for children to live in THEIR world as heterosexuals (as most of them will be).

You say you had a happy upbringing, but you appear to want to deny to others the roles that both your mother and father played in your upbringing. I don't think anyone has the right to do that.

I provided you a link to one woman raised by lesbians who's very happy she was. So there's no consensus from people raised by non heterosexual parents as to if there's a negative or positive impact.

If you can link some first word accounts of what people say they felt was missing from their upbringing by same sex parents I'd be interested to read them.

 

[SirRumpole]

I am talking about the situations where a female decides to have a child and raise it alone, without any contact with the father, whether it be from an intentional one night stand or agreement.

Are you willing to bring in a law that makes that sort of situation illegal? Or are you only concerned with those situations when it happens to be a lesbian couple?

Society does not need to endorse, condone or promote either single parenting or gay parenting. Somehow I can't see students being sent to a film promoting single motherhood.

It's not a matter of banning, but there is nothing to say we need to make either of those situations easier or more attractive to people.

 

[SirRumpole]

If you can link some first word accounts of what people say they felt was missing from their upbringing by same sex parents I'd be interested to read them.

I guess you could start here

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/lau...-speak-out-against-gay-marriage-federal-court

 

[Tisme]

I guess you could start here

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/lau...-speak-out-against-gay-marriage-federal-court

that's only 4 people.