New Flag for New Zealand

[Knobby22]

New Zealand with the excellent Prime Minister's support (John Keys) is going for a new flag. Probably based on the silver fern. So our cousins Canada and NZ will have leaf based flags. Maybe we should have one?

As the most backward serious nation in the Commonwealth we will be the last to get rid of the Union Jack.
it would be an easy vote winner for a government in my view and we could still stay in the Monarchy like NZ. our politicians aren't up to it at the moment. Give them time the poor dears.

http://news.sky.com/story/1533201/no-sheep-new-zealand-reveals-new-flag-shortlist

 

[wayneL]

Oz is backward because it respects its flag?

 

[SirRumpole]

Oz is backward because it respects its flag?

I don't think that is the case. Having the flag of another country on our flag when we are an independent nation is a sign of submission, not respect.

It would be more appropriate these days to have the stars and stripes on our flag. How would that go down with the public ?

 

[Tisme]

I'm fairly proud of the nation's roots, so I have no problem displaying that pride on the flag.

 

[SirRumpole]

I'm fairly proud of the nation's roots, so I have no problem displaying that pride on the flag.

I've always wondered how people can be proud about about something over which they have no control.

Pride comes from personal or national achievement, not a historical quirk.

 

[Knobby22]

As an independent country we deserve our own flag.
Canada got rid of the Union jack years ago (as did the US with some force). We are backward.

 

[McLovin]

It would be more appropriate these days to have the stars and stripes on our flag. How would that go down with the public ?

And the Chinese flag.

I agree. Time to change the flag.

Those designs for the kiwi flag look bloody terrible though. More like a corporate logo.

You got to love what the Bulletin said of the Australian flag back when it was first rolled out...

a staled r̩chauff̩ of the British flag, with no artistic virtue, no national significance... Minds move slowly: and Australia is still Britain's little boy. What more natural than that he should accept his father's cut-down garments, Рlacking the power to protest, and only dimly realising his will. That bastard flag is a true symbol of the bastard state of Australian opinion.

 

[Tisme]

I've always wondered how people can be proud about about something over which they have no control.

Pride comes from personal or national achievement, not a historical quirk.

Well I'm proud of my forefathers, not so much as achievement, but because I am being and have provenance.

 

[SirRumpole]

Well I'm proud of my forefathers, not so much as achievement, but because I am being and have provenance.

Good for you.

If your parents were Italians who came here with nothing and worked hard building market gardens would you feel equally proud and want their flag on ours ?

 

[Value Collector]

I don't think that is the case. Having the flag of another country on our flag when we are an independent nation is a sign of submission, not respect.

We are independently governed, but we are no less part of the commonwealth.

Upon enlisting our soldiers, sailors and airmen swear an oath to the Queen and promise to resist her enemies, not to Australia or the government of Australia. Our Air Force is the "RAAF" Royal Australian Air Force, not the "AAF", and our ships are "HMAS" Her Magesties Australian Ships, not AS.

 

[SirRumpole]

We are independently governed, but we are no less part of the commonwealth.

Upon enlisting our soldiers, sailors and airmen swear an oath to the Queen, not to Australia or the government of Australia. Our Air Force is the "RAAF" Royal Australian Air Force, not the "AAF", and our ships are "HMAS" Her Magesties Australian Ships, not AS.

What's that got to do with the Flag ? should we change it or not ?

 

[Knobby22]

We are independently governed, but we are no less part of the commonwealth.

Upon enlisting our soldiers, sailors and airmen swear an oath to the Queen and promise to resist her enemies, not to Australia or the government of Australia. Our Air Force is the "RAAF" Royal Australian Air Force, not the "AAF", and our ships are "HMAS" Her Magesties Australian Ships, not AS.

As is New Zealand. Doesn't change a thing.

 

[Value Collector]

What's that got to do with the Flag ? should we change it or not ?

My comment was more about you saying our current flag is a sign of submission to Britain, and I agree it is.

however it is not the biggest sign of submission, which in my opinion would be the fact that our entire defence force pledges an oath to the queen rather than our own country.

but also you mentioned that it doesn't make sense to have the British flag on our flag because we are an independent country, well we are not a republic yet, we are only independently governed, the queen is still our head of state, and the head of our military, and there are many political ties.

I think it makes complete sense to have our current flag, until we bite the bullet and leave the monarchy.

 

[Value Collector]

As is New Zealand. Doesn't change a thing.

Exactly, so why bother.

seems like changing the flag it just like adding a coat of paint over rotten timber, it might look a bit better, but nothing has really changed, it's just cosmetic.

 

[SirRumpole]

Exactly, so why bother.

seems like changing the flag it just like adding a coat of paint over rotten timber, it might look a bit better, but nothing has really changed, it's just cosmetic.

I don't think it is "just" cosmetic, it's the start of a process to be recognised on our own merits, not as part of a foreign country. It may seem a small change but a lot of people don't like the image of subservience that having the Union Jack on our flag implies.

 

[galumay]

Exactly, so why bother.

seems like changing the flag it just like adding a coat of paint over rotten timber, it might look a bit better, but nothing has really changed, it's just cosmetic.

I agree with what you are saying, but I wonder if getting rid of the current irrelevant flag wouldnt help move us towards losing some of the other outdated and silly ties to england?

I certainly agree that changing the flag to something more relevant and appropriate doesnt of itself change the other synchophantic ties, but it might get the ball rolling.

 

[McLovin]

We are independently governed, but we are no less part of the commonwealth.

Upon enlisting our soldiers, sailors and airmen swear an oath to the Queen and promise to resist her enemies, not to Australia or the government of Australia. Our Air Force is the "RAAF" Royal Australian Air Force, not the "AAF", and our ships are "HMAS" Her Magesties Australian Ships, not AS.

Umm...that would be the Queen of Australia.

What's the Commonwealth got to do with anything, the majority of countries in it are republics.

 

[Value Collector]

Umm...that would be the Queen of Australia.

What's the Commonwealth got to do with anything, the majority of countries in it are republics.

My point is that the word Australia doesn't even get mentioned in the oath, oath is sworn to the queen and her successors, who it is not a coincidence happen to be part of the British monarchy, and are not Australians.

if we wanted to change the flag as a symbol of our independence, maybe we should start by making the head of state an Australian, and have our defence swear to protect Australia rather than defend the queen and her enemies.

 

[Value Collector]

I don't think it is "just" cosmetic, it's the start of a process to be recognised on our own merits, not as part of a foreign country. It may seem a small change but a lot of people don't like the image of subservience that having the Union Jack on our flag implies.

Even the Union Jack is just a mixture of flags.

As I said if you don't like the image of subservience, maybe to fix that we should stop being subservient.

 

[McLovin]

My point is that the word Australia doesn't even get mentioned in the oath, oath is sworn to the queen and her successors, who it is not a coincidence happen to be part of the British monarchy, and are not Australians.

Perhaps. I'm not sure it's a sign of submission to Britain though, as you claim. Maybe a submission to Germany if one follows your train of thought.

if we wanted to change the flag as a symbol of our independence, maybe we should start by making the head of state an Australian, and have our defence swear to protect Australia rather than defend the queen and her enemies.

No argument from me.