BIGOT: A Fitting Term that offends, rather than cause examination of behaviour

[Value Collector]

Through out the various threads I have taken part in, I have noticed that often when you describe a persons behaviour or opinions using certain words, it can cause offence even when that word might be the best word to describe what you have noticed.

For example, The word Ignorant actually means - lacking knowledge or information. If you say that someone is Ignorant on a certain topic, they seem to get offended as though you were calling them an idiot rather than pointing out their lack of knowledge on the subject.

Another example is the the wor "Bigoted" or "Bigot", I have described a few peoples behaviour as being Bigoted which has caused them to get angry. I just wanted to clarify what that means.

Bigoted is simply- having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others

the key words there is "prejudiced" and "obstinate"


"obstinate"- stubbornly refusing to change one's opinion or chosen course of action, despite attempts to persuade one to do so:

"Prejudice" is - A preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience:

The people that I have called Bigots or described as having Bigoted opinions, all have opinions which they believe are superior (which in itself is not a bad thing, if you were able to change those opinions based on evidence) but these opinions are preconceived and are not based on reason or actual experience, they are normally based in some religion or sterotype not facts, and they are stubbornly held regardless of the evidence.

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The counter point they normally bring up is that I must be equally bigoted, because I am showing strong opinions on the topic.

I think the big difference, is I am willing to change any of my opinions if I were presented with evidence to show I was wrong, all my opinions have a question mark on them , and I actively seek evidence from the other party by consistently asking them you show me why they hold their opinions, and how I am wrong.

They do not make such efforts to test their beliefs, instead they offer logical fallacies, circular arrguements and red herrings even after it is repeatly pointed out, they activtly avoid engaging the nuts and bolts of the arrgument in an effort to maintain their position, despite the evidence against it.

I think the failure to test your own beliefs, is what leads to bigoted opinions and there is nothing wrong with pointing that out when you notice it.

 

[trainspotter]

I think the failure to test your own beliefs, is what leads to bigoted opinions and there is nothing wrong with pointing that out when you notice it.

condescending [kon-duh-sen-ding]

adjective

1.showing or implying a usually patronizing descent from dignity or superiority:

 

[Value Collector]

condescending [kon-duh-sen-ding]

adjective

1.showing or implying a usually patronizing descent from dignity or superiority:

I can assure you I am not trying to be condescending, I actually really care about the topic's I spend time discussing here, and I do my best to understand where people are coming from, I just think its healthy for people to have their deeply held beliefs challenged through rational debate, especially when they may have no grounds to actually hold them, as I said I am open to changing my mind, and if you look through the various threads most of my posts are me actually asking people to explain their positions, trying to open up a two way exchange where ideas can be discussed.

 

[SirRumpole]

Anyone who calls me a bigot doesn't know what they are talking about , and is a jerk as well.

 

[Joe Blow]

I'd like to offer some thoughts here.

Calling someone a bigot is an insult and a personal attack. When someone is called a bigot their first instinct is usually to respond in kind and retaliate. This leads to exchanges of insults and the thread then often degenerates into a slanging match which makes constructive debate difficult, if not impossible.

If you believe someone holds opinions that you perceive to be bigoted then you should make reference to that person's opinions and explain why you feel that way. It's a relatively minor distinction, but one that keeps the discussion civil and encourages a continued exchange of differing viewpoints, rather than an exchange of insults.

 

[noco]

Many of us have our set beliefs, and where possible, links are provided to back up one's argument but no matter how reliable those links are, there are certain elements on the ASF whom, in some cases still believe one is talking bull$hit without a reasonable counter to the discussion....So when they are painted into a corner, character assassination takes over their mind and they then attempt to discredit a person with snide remarks....I also believe that by attacking one's character, this element believe they may force one off the ASF to prevent freedom of speech and in so doing, it allows them to dominate the thread under discussion.

Such sayings as :-

What planet are from?
Take your medicine and lay down for a while.
You are full of BULL DUST.
Where did you get that information?....Out of a cornflakes packet.
Why don't you take a Bex and a coke and lay down for a while.
Go take a cold shower.

Those comments are like pouring water on a duck's back but I have tried on occasions point out the modus operandi taken.

I must confess I was guilty myself on an occasion but when challenged, I apologized but at the time I did not believe it was hurtful.

My father once told me, "SARCASM IS THE LOWEST FORM OF WIT FROM THE UNEDUCATED.

 

[chiff]

Am I right in assuming that you believe that you are the wounded party here Noco?
Some comments on these forums are well past bigotry and aggressive opinion.They come across as visceral hatred.
When calling people cowards and liars enters the conversation some people react.
I do not subscribe to any newspapers-I do not need to validify my own opinion,and there is a big difference between opinion and fact.
I woke up to the fact long ago that I was searching for opinion that reinforced my own beliefs.I realised that I was pissing in my own pocket and this did not help the search for new knowledge .
As the ancient Greeks said -Above all know thyself

 

[SirRumpole]

Well, perhaps we have been a bit hard on old Noco, a valued member of the community who keeps us entertained and amused.

Long live Noco !

 

[noco]

Well, perhaps we have been a bit hard on old Noco, a valued member of the community who keeps us entertained and amused.

Long live Noco !

Sarcasm again.....Read the thread and decipher what it is all about.....you have become dichromatic.

 

[SirRumpole]

Sarcasm again.....Read the thread and decipher what it is all about.....you have become dichromatic.

Maybe you have a case of Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness

 

[noco]

Maybe you have a case of Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness

You just cannot help yourself Rumpy.....You have to talk double dutch get your last word in.

 

[SirRumpole]

You just cannot help yourself Rumpy.....You have to talk double dutch get your last word in.

It simply means a desire to use big words.

Anyway, lets not turn this into a slanging match, I'm sure that was not the OP's intention.

 

[trainspotter]

Seems this olive branch has been lost on some of us here

 

[noco]

Seems this olive branch has been lost on some of us here

You can say that again.

 

[orr]

Bigoted is simply- having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others

the key words there is "prejudiced" and "obstinate"


"obstinate"- stubbornly refusing to change one's opinion or chosen course of action, despite attempts to persuade one to do so:

"Prejudice" is - A preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience:

No need to single out Fred Nile:

And hats off to the logically impared biologically befuddled , old, fundamentally out of step, bigoted manipulative, foolish clown; 'If there's one thing NSW doesn't need it's Ethics classes'. prat
The German pronunciation of Kant, as in Emanuel Kant, descibes Fred to a tee.

Empirical argument can be made to substantiate all points made above, and if you're having trouble with the one under neath? there's no hope for you...

Noting.... How uncomfortable a predicament for the LNP, getting a gay marriage 'up'm' .... It's like political S&M, and they'd all look so much better with a mask...

 

[sptrawler]

I'd like to offer some thoughts here.

Calling someone a bigot is an insult and a personal attack. When someone is called a bigot their first instinct is usually to respond in kind and retaliate. This leads to exchanges of insults and the thread then often degenerates into a slanging match which makes constructive debate difficult, if not impossible.

If you believe someone holds opinions that you perceive to be bigoted then you should make reference to that person's opinions and explain why you feel that way. It's a relatively minor distinction, but one that keeps the discussion civil and encourages a continued exchange of differing viewpoints, rather than an exchange of insults.

Maybe you could qualify the definition of Bigot, so everyone is on the same page.

 

[luutzu]

Frank and honest rebuttal of one's belief is great for personal development. Nothing make us think harder, look further into and re-examine our own beliefs than to have it laughed at and be taken apart by some self-righteous, know it all lil pr!c

Serious though, you're not going to find that with casual friends and colleagues. You'll just talk about the weather or sports, but to have your belief questioned and debated? Just ain't going to happen. Only your parents, your siblings or a very very good friend would take the time and trouble to put you in your place and make you feel real small.

So while it'd be nice to have "the truth" handed to you with a cherry on top, where's the pleasure for the arrogant SOB who's delivering it if he have to focus on "manners" and "sensitivity" and people and their "feelings"? Can't be that selfish.

When our belief is questioned... of course we all get sensitive and defensive and start calling names. But it's also an opportunity to look into and examine our beliefs. If we're right, we're right; if we're wrong, we just tell the other guy off, tell them they're wrong and quietly go home and start thinking and look into the bs we've been fed... may come out a better person for it.


To follow the sage reasoning of Barney Joyce and let's do what (he thinks) the Asians would do or else risk declining into decadence... Confucius said, when someone tell me I am right, I thank him; when someone tell me I am wrong, I also thank him... ah dam, I just stole the entire thesis.

 

[Knobby22]

Through out the various threads I have taken part in, I have noticed that often when you describe a persons behaviour or opinions using certain words, it can cause offence even when that word might be the best word to describe what you have noticed.

You have used another definition to the one I understand.

A state of mind where a person is obstinately, irrationally, or unfairly intolerant of ideas, opinions, or beliefs that differ from their own, and intolerant of the people who hold them

I have had the same opinion of some of your posts with regard religion but have declined to say it.

 

[Tisme]

Bigoted and lovin' it!!

I know exactly how the OP feels. There is nothing worse than having a discussion with the lowest rung on Henry Goddards' retardation index. I mean how simple can it be to agree with everything I post...100% correct, 100% logical, absolutely no subjective stuff, just common sense.

I think there was popular list of types that make up any discussion board and the role play that naturally ascribes itself to the individuals. There's flippant posters, the ones who call Nazi at the mods, the schoolboy sneek who raises the same jibe time and time again at an enemy of his own making, the knowitalls, the truly nice who become victims at the hands of the alpha male, the intrangients, etc., etc.

One thing we all have in common is a need to soapbox our own opinions when we see stupidity afoot, which in itself is pretty stupid, but we can't help ourselves.

 

[trainspotter]

Tomorrow I am going to be an astronaut ...