The transition to Futures trading

[payday]

Also, on the topic of futures trading, I was just chatting with my brother who is in Singapore and he dabbles in trading futures. He trades through Saxo Capital Markets and they charge him $9.72 per contract for the ES
I told him that I'm with Interactive Brokers and I get charged $1.82 per contract! Talk about a massive rip off.

 

[cynic]

My spectrum of trades seems similar to others.

My "stupid" trades are usually "smart" trades that didn't perform as expected, and my "smart" trades are often "stupid" trades that miraculously recovered.

 

[pavilion103]

Are you actually awake when you are in the trades or do you go to sleep? I ask because if you were awake, I am sure that watching the price go all the way back up would have been difficult

Went to sleep. If I was awake I wouldn't have held the whole way back up because I would have been in a position to make judgements. Probably would have still given back 15-20.

But I took 1 off then decided to leave one overnight. In some spots I will.

 

[pavilion103]

2 x long at around 6750.

Price consolidated just above this in a long consolidation. Who knows which way it will go.

Some news out later so who knows!

 

[payday]

2 x long at around 6750.

Price consolidated just above this in a long consolidation. Who knows which way it will go.

Some news out later so who knows!

FOMC rates decision out at 4AM AEST. Should be some fireworks there especially in the currencies and gold.

 

[Evolve]

Hey guys first of all thanks this is an incredible thread, pretty cool reading your transition Pav.

A little about me, im 17 and from New Zealand i've been trading shares for a couple of years on the New Zealand Stock Exchange and have decided its time to transition to the Australian exchange to get a decent online broker with decent fees (its appalling in New Zealand), as well as wider options. Hopefully getting into Futures trading. I have around 25K.

I know its not easy money but i have the time and enjoy it so would love to give it a shot.

I have a few questions i was hoping you guys could help me with.

Is 25k NZD enough? It sounds like risk control is the biggest factor. I can take losses.

Do you guys just trade futures? Pav I think i remember you saying you traded stocks as well. Which one do you prefer? I'm interested in futures particularly as it would suit me in the evenings and the easy use of leverage.

Recommended broker? Interactive Brokers seems the best to me unless there is someone else? What would you recommend for playing back data? Whats the costs currently involved for you?

Trading setup, Do you guys use multiple screens?

My action plan is to read a couple futures book such as "Futures Made Simple" by Kel Butcher then jump straight into trading playback/demo accounts. The biggest factor here seems to be risk control.

I found this quote by Trembling hand particularly great and plan on following it somewhat.

Spend some time learning basic NT (5 -10 hours)

Spend some money getting data from IB for SPI, Kospi, STW, Nikkei, ES, YM, CL, GC, DAX, FTSE and a few FX crosses. ($150 per month)

Set up NT each day to record depth and every tick for playback. (daily connect setup 5 min per day)

When you have some spare time each week spend it on the sim PLAYING on everyone of the above markets. Doing anything, putting on size, scalping, hanging on for a few hours, being in the market ALL the time etc etc(5 hours per week)

Then after a few months when you have had a good look at all markets and see how they are when they get wild and when they are boring as bat Sh!+ pick a few where you have some interest.

Then pick a few patterns that you think repeat in those markets and print them out and put them in a folder in sections, breakouts, wild starts, ranging, fake breaks, low range days, large range trending days etc...... What you want to do now is every day add to the folder whenever you see the same pattern in your markets.

With those two or three Markets and your growing collection of repeating patterns on the weekend and 1 or 2 day through the week put aside a few 2 hour blocks. Now here is the bit that will save you years and worthless side trips down the discipline road. Turn on NTs playback function. Set it to 10x speed and hit with all you have. Trade it seriously with 2 lots and don't kid yourself. Keep stats (which NT is good at) and really work on them. Win rate, R:R hold time etc. You will do 20 hours of intense trading and training in two hours. After a few months you will literately have years of examples played out in your head.

Cheers for any insight

 

[CanOz]

that quote is gold, right out of the Propex training manual with the Speed wound up...

 

[minwa]

A little about me, im 17 and from New Zealand i've been trading shares for a couple of years on the New Zealand Stock Exchange and have decided its time to transition to the Australian exchange to get a decent online broker with decent fees (its appalling in New Zealand), as well as wider options. Hopefully getting into Futures trading. I have around 25K.

I know its not easy money but i have the time and enjoy it so would love to give it a shot.

I have a few questions i was hoping you guys could help me with.

Is 25k NZD enough? It sounds like risk control is the biggest factor. I can take losses.

Do you guys just trade futures? Pav I think i remember you saying you traded stocks as well. Which one do you prefer? I'm interested in futures particularly as it would suit me in the evenings and the easy use of leverage.

Recommended broker? Interactive Brokers seems the best to me unless there is someone else? What would you recommend for playing back data? Whats the costs currently involved for you?

Trading setup, Do you guys use multiple screens?

25k is enough. You can trade 1 and maybe 2 contracts on most futures. I recommend you skip to US markets if going for futures. Only trade the ASX if you planning on day trading stocks (I don't really recommend this..).

Use IB for brokerage if you pass age requirements..I think you need to be 18. Maybe 21 for margin account. You will probably have to "boast" a bit to get futures trading approved.

Playing back data and trading for MT4 is free. Data is 95% in sync with futures. Find a broker with DEMO MT4 with SP500/FTSE/DAX/SPI and gold/oil if you interested in that.

What I reckon you don't need starting out: multiple screens & paying for too many markets/ too much for data.

Other advice from personal experience:

Save a small portion of your money if you have a PT job or when you graduate and get a job. Get compounding on your side while you're young.

Stay up and trade. You seem like you're serious about trading. I stayed up late most nights for last few years of high school, was totally worth it. You will probably get addicted. I quitted World of Warcraft and Call of Duty for trading.

Trade end of day as well in addition to day trading. Find out if it's for you.

Don't get sucked into indicators, newsletters, courses, signal providers.

You will become very frustrated. Only trade a healthy amount of capital, don't go into debt to fund your account. Don't give up.

 

[kid hustlr]

Good stuff from Minwa

 

[pavilion103]

Hey guys first of all thanks this is an incredible thread, pretty cool reading your transition Pav.

A little about me, im 17 and from New Zealand i've been trading shares for a couple of years on the New Zealand Stock Exchange and have decided its time to transition to the Australian exchange to get a decent online broker with decent fees (its appalling in New Zealand), as well as wider options. Hopefully getting into Futures trading. I have around 25K.

I know its not easy money but i have the time and enjoy it so would love to give it a shot.

I have a few questions i was hoping you guys could help me with.

Is 25k NZD enough? It sounds like risk control is the biggest factor. I can take losses.

Do you guys just trade futures? Pav I think i remember you saying you traded stocks as well. Which one do you prefer? I'm interested in futures particularly as it would suit me in the evenings and the easy use of leverage.

Recommended broker? Interactive Brokers seems the best to me unless there is someone else? What would you recommend for playing back data? Whats the costs currently involved for you?

Trading setup, Do you guys use multiple screens?

My action plan is to read a couple futures book such as "Futures Made Simple" by Kel Butcher then jump straight into trading playback/demo accounts. The biggest factor here seems to be risk control.

I found this quote by Trembling hand particularly great and plan on following it somewhat.



Cheers for any insight

FTSE futures for me. Looking into DAX too. Don't like SPI during the day, doesn't seem to provide the same opportunities IMO.

I haven't traded stocks since the start of the year. In trending markets I love the momentum strategy that Tech was looking at with me. End of day trading. I love it. Each night - 30 minute scan, place trades, move stops. Easy. No stress.
In the current market, it's too choppy for me. When direction is a little clearer I'll certainly look to pile my future profits into stocks again.

But futures are the quickest way to make money in the quickest time with the lease starting capital. I love it.

Yes, $25,000 is fine. I don't leave much more in my account. If I've got enough to trade 3 contracts if need be that's enough. Usually 2 contracts.

I use IB. I like it.

Multiple screens - Yes. At the start of the FTSE day I have up the 1 min, 2 min, 3 min, 5 min, 30 min and daily charts up. I need 2 screens for that.

 

[CanOz]

100 points available on the DAX tonight...

 

[payday]

That's a great post minwa. There should be a like button for posts like that. Great advice for any beginner.

 

[pavilion103]

Got on the original short on the FTSE.
Got out early.
Lost points going long.

I did just held the initial short!!!!

 

[cynic]

My spectrum of trades seems similar to others.

My "stupid" trades are usually "smart" trades that didn't perform as expected, and my "smart" trades are often "stupid" trades that miraculously recovered.

It looks like my FTSE smart trades have recently turned stupid. I'll keep persevering until they become smart again (or the contract expires-whichever happens sooner).

 

[pavilion103]

Closed bloody early and lost money trying to go long at support. What an idiot. Didn't take 2 longs because initial risk was too big.
Last night is exactly why I need 2!

 

[pavilion103]

The one that interests me is the DOW. It has continued to move up with little disturbance. Here is a chart. I've drawn in the last bar in big. It's taken out a few bars. Interesting to see if there is follow through next bar and into next week.


In the back of my mind I'm considering the possibility that this is the failed push up after that initial smash down. I want to position myself in case it is.

View attachment 58817

Interesting post from late last week. That bar which took out a few bars does in fact appear to be an indication of what was to come.

Interesting to see how it goes from here.....

 

[pavilion103]

In light of the US market and the fact that we could possibly see a push down from here I've decided to take a position on the SPI. I'm only going to trade it for position trades. Intra-day doesn't suit me.

I figure it could be a good time to be short, if the market does fall from here.

I've got 1 x short @ 5521 with stop moved now.

The only challenging thing with this one is that it isn't up around trhe 5570 area where I would feel a bit safer with the stop. 5520 could easily be re-tested so I'd need it to smash down from here.

A bit of an opportunitst one with good RR potential should it work. I figured it was worth the chance on open of losing a few hundred to potentially make big gains. Now that stop is moved, there is nothing to worry about.

 

[pavilion103]

Utterly remarkable smash down here!

I took 2 x shorts at 6670 and 6665.

Unfortunately I took one off for 35 points.
It's gone down another 20 shortly after!

Still holding 1.

Also holding 1 x SPI contract @ 5520

 

[pavilion103]

Surely someone else is on here making some money!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tech/a]

Surely someone else is on here making some money!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only you PAV