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Essendon - Supporter Support

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Gringotts Bank said:
Yes, either illegal or questionable. Probably questionable.

I can't imagine them not keeping some sort of records. If they did keep records, then they were shredded in a hurry soon after the scandal hit - that's disreputable. If they didn't keep records, they were taking huge risks with the players' health - that's disreputable. No way around it. Too bloody bad is all I can say. If it was my team I wouldn't be complaining about fines or sanctions.
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I think that's all the stuff we DON'T know and weren't told and the reason Hird laid down.

All this bull about accepting guilt for the good of the club is equally unbelievable.
 
Essendon admitted some players were injected with a substance they don't know what - the one sourced from Mexico. Thompson on Footy Classified looked upset with the club more than anything. Matthew Lloyd some weeks ago made the comment (I think it was him) that after the ASADA interviews McVeigh (I think) came away with a different attitude. More went on than he realised. Dank doesn't want to say anything for some reason.

I don't like how the people involved in the charges didn't seem to have any interview/right of reply. The AFL charged them and it was all about negotiating.

As for comparing to Armstrong - he sued anyone that strong pressed the issue he was a drug cheat as he had never been found to have done anything wrong. He won the cases or people involved settled. After the Four Corners story things fell apart. Now people will be chasing up the money paid out to Armstrong in the settlements - they were lated proved to be correct.

Back to Thompson - I hope some changes he wants happen. I get the impression that because the onfield performances were improving and any issues were kepy inhouse there was no impetus to make needed changes.

Was Hird and co. a bit too single minded?
 
You know what I think the root of the problem at Essendon was? Putting in as senior coach someone who had no coaching experience just because he was the golden haired boy/club hero. He may have been a good player, he may be a smart guy but he had never coached before in any capacity and he was made senior coach of one of our the teams at the elite level of Australian Rules football. I think he was out of his depth and through inexperience went down the wrong path. Due to his arrogance he will never admit it and due to the Cult of James Hird at Essendon they will never admit it at the club either. Evidence of this is the fact that despite all this they have offered him another two year contract in 2015.

As to the sanctions I am glad some have been imposed but if you look at them closely, apart from the draft pick sanctions, they are a bit weak.
 
nulla nulla said:
May be still in the denial and anger stages. Give him time and he may (reluctantly) come to accept that what Essendon did was actually wrong. :banghead:
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Like Hird, I've had a hard time trying coming to terms with the charges against him and the Bombers. I'll admit I have underestimated the corporate governance/player welfare aspect. I was more shocked at the "drug cheating" allegations and the ability of Essendon to fight those charges.

What is clearly evident is that even if the charges against Hird fell from 34 to just 1, the AFL was always going to give Hird 12 months and take away the draft picks, take away the points and fine the club.

Hird has always said he will fight the charges in relate to taking the banned substances and I supported him on that. In the end he actually won that fight. All references to substance abuse, cheating and banned substances were dropped, it's just that the penalties didn't change one bit and were never likely to.

Despite the psycho analysis by Nulla, I don't think it is about anger, denial, acceptance etc - I just have a differing opinion on who was responsible and the culpability issues. Certainly things were done wrongly and very poorly but when you are fighting an opponent like the AFL sometimes you question their independence.

The AFL even had the gall to complain about how long Essendon have taken to bring this to a conclusion, but the AFL never wanted this to end before now. Could you imagine Essendon playing dead games for the past 6 weeks?

Duckman
 
boofhead said:
Essendon admitted some players were injected with a substance they don't know what - the one sourced from Mexico. Thompson on Footy Classified looked upset with the club more than anything. Matthew Lloyd some weeks ago made the comment (I think it was him) that after the ASADA interviews McVeigh (I think) came away with a different attitude. More went on than he realised. Dank doesn't want to say anything for some reason.
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Like everyone, you're judging this on a void of facts. 'I think it was him', and 'I think', don't seem admissible in a court of law.

And, you don't know what someone else doesn't know what could have been sourced from Mexico. Mexico makes some fine pharmaceuticals!

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Miss Hale said:
You know what I think the root of the problem at Essendon was? Putting in as senior coach someone who had no coaching experience just because he was the golden haired boy/club hero. He may have been a good player, he may be a smart guy but he had never coached before in any capacity and he was made senior coach of one of our the teams at the elite level of Australian Rules football.
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Miss, you're assuming it's like he was the only one making any decisions here. It might have been 30 years ago when we had captain coaches but now we have departments full of people in hierarchies making board level decisions about who puts on what coloured undies for an away match. You would remember that, surely? Do you remember when you played under a captain coach?
 
kennas said:
Like everyone, you're judging this on a void of facts. 'I think it was him', and 'I think', don't seem admissible in a court of law.

And, you don't know what someone else doesn't know what could have been sourced from Mexico. Mexico makes some fine pharmaceuticals!

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Miss, you're assuming it's like he was the only one making any decisions here. It might have been 30 years ago when we had captain coaches but now we have departments full of people in hierarchies making board level decisions about who puts on what coloured undies for an away match. You would remember that, surely? Do you remember when you played under a captain coach?
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I only ever played Z grade netball, we barely had a captain let alone a coach! I think in the case of Hird he was the one making most of the decisions and the board, rather than deciding what colour undies should be worn, left all such decisions for Hird. It's pretty clear that the board didn't know what was going on re the supplements programme and even Doc Reid was out of the loop. From what I have gathered from the Bomber Thompson interview he was also in the dark. They all thought so highly of Hird that I think he was given free rein. The only advice Hird seems to have taken was from the likes of Stephen Dank and he (Hird) had no experience in the coaching department of any other AFL club (or even at Essendon under another coach) as a point of reference.
 
The law of the land is irrelevant in what happened to Essendon.Essendon signed up to the AFL code,in which I am sure there is a clause,regarding bringing the game into disrepute.
If people cannot see that this is what happened they are still swimming in the longest river in Africa.
Maybe if we compared the AFL to religious organisations.They have their own code and rules.If people do not want to abide by their code they will be ex-communicated or punished in some way.
Nothing to do with legalities.
(I hear on the radio this morning that the AFL threatened Essendon with ex-communication or de-registering before they caved in and accepted the sanctions)
 
Having been scrubbed from AFL for this years finals with no penalties applying to their VFL involvement it is kind of ironic that 21 senior Essendon players are currently entitled to play in the VFL competition finals this year in lieu of the AFL finals. Nah not ironic, more like a bad joke.

No doubt they will stack their VFL side for the rest of that competition in an effort to take out the "Claytons" grand final.
 
kennas: It is worthwhile watching Footy Classified with the Mark Thompson interview. You'll get some of the admissions from there instead of relying on my memory about who actually said it.
 
boofhead said:
kennas: It is worthwhile watching Footy Classified with the Mark Thompson interview. You'll get some of the admissions from there instead of relying on my memory about who actually said it.
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I watched it. There's still too many holes. I was hoping the hole filling would be positive for Essendon, of course. It hasn't been.

I find it incomprehensible that punishments have been handed out without Dank's testimony. There has been so much at stake and yet, the man who actually committed the assumed crimes, has not been investigated. Surely, with this level of financial and personal loss, the key witness ought to have been examined.
 
kennas said:
I watched it. There's still too many holes. I was hoping the hole filling would be positive for Essendon, of course. It hasn't been.

I find it incomprehensible that punishments have been handed out without Dank's testimony. There has been so much at stake and yet, the man who actually committed the assumed crimes, has not been investigated. Surely, with this level of financial and personal loss, the key witness ought to have been examined.
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I think there's a lot we've never been told, that can be the only explanation.
 
kennas said:
I watched it. There's still too many holes. I was hoping the hole filling would be positive for Essendon, of course. It hasn't been.

I find it incomprehensible that punishments have been handed out without Dank's testimony. There has been so much at stake and yet, the man who actually committed the assumed crimes, has not been investigated. Surely, with this level of financial and personal loss, the key witness ought to have been examined.
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You know he refused to be interviewed, right?

Why would someone in that position refuse? The answer is obvious.

ASADA has the power (apparently) to force Dank to answer questions. This will happen soon.

And what about the players? What player would admit to taking horse drugs when his career is on the line?!! No chance of that happening.

Time to remove the blinkers?
 
I agree boofhead, I thought Thompsons interview was very good.

Interesting poll

Do you think the punishments against James Hird and the Essendon Football Club are fair?

No, they aren't harsh enough
61%
No, they are too severe
21%
Yes, they are just right
17%
 
kennas said:
I watched it. There's still too many holes. I was hoping the hole filling would be positive for Essendon, of course. It hasn't been.

I find it incomprehensible that punishments have been handed out without Dank's testimony. There has been so much at stake and yet, the man who actually committed the assumed crimes, has not been investigated. Surely, with this level of financial and personal loss, the key witness ought to have been examined.
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The players mother that rang up expressing her fears sums up a few things.

1. The players where unaware just what was being injected and what the consequences were for health.

2. Not meeting compliance the club could not verify what was being injected to whom or how much.

3. The clubs (AFL) are directly responsible for the health and care of its players and all parents must have complete confidence that is the case, the mothers concern clearly shows this isn't the case at Essendon.

Hirds failure to accept responsibility after placing the club in such a position is reprehensible


Wayne Goldsmith sums it up beautifully

Passing the buck at Essendon

n a misguided attempt to protect his brand, James Hird insists on denying his responsibility as senior coach for the doping scandal besetting his club, so bringing the whole game into disrepute, writes Wayne Goldsmith.

Every club has a code of conduct (flexible).

They all have rules of behaviour (bendable).

And they all have mission statements, vision statements, team values, team trademarks and team policies (all negotiable).

But there is one rule - one overriding law that every person in every AFL team knows and understands and cannot deny - that is unbreakable.

No-one can do anything in an AFL football department that directly affects or involves the players without the full knowledge and approval of the senior coach.

The senior coach in an AFL club has absolute power and total responsibility for all aspects of training and playing, and that includes the team's sports science and sports medicine program (e.g. player nutrition and supplement use).

Anyone who has any connection with AFL - or for that matter, professional football - knows that the rule applies to everyone, every situation, every aspect of preparation and performance - and all the time.
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-27/goldsmith-passing-the-buck-at-essendon/4914592
 
IFocus said:
Wayne Goldsmith sums it up beautifully

Passing the buck at Essendon



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-27/goldsmith-passing-the-buck-at-essendon/4914592
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Where it becomes grey IFocus is the use of specialists to run training and supplement programs. It is naive and almost childlike to believe that the senior coach understands and implements at a grassroots level, all dietary, medicinal and training programs at a football club. It is nice prose by Goldsmith and lapped up by the gullible but it lacks a deep fundamental understanding of a modern day sporting organisation.

Have a read of today's "Weekend Australian". Sheds some light into what the AFL and ASADA made known to the public and what they didn't make known to the public, specifically in relation to James Hird. Speaks volumes as to why Hird was so pissed off and wanted to keep fighting to clear his name.

Not only will we never get to the truth, but there are many of us that aren't even sure if we have even reached halfway. Two sides to every story.

Duckman
 
Duckman#72 said:
Who would you like to see as Essendon coach until Hirdy gets back?

Daniher, Harvey, Sheedy, O'Donnell?

Duckman
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Harvey, then he stays as another senior assistant.

I was thinking Bailey, but adding tanking to doping probably doesn't look so cool.

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Good article this:

Essendon, and the push to bring down the gods of our secular religion

THIS year has seen further demonstration of the strange phenomenon of sport as religion. In question is the location of encounters with the sacred in the modern secular world.

When is it that most Australians are drawn out of their profane lives to become engaged in something more inspiring than the humdrum everyday; when the tepid blood suddenly begins to surge; when the passion barometer rises, moved by scintillating greatness, or dark iniquity; and even when there is some absurd sense that higher forces are at work, guiding events?

The Essendon Football Club drugs scandal has been the lead case, and it provides illuminating clues to the nature of secular religion in Australia today. Its status as the archetypal story of the year is evidenced in its monopolising front and back pages of newspapers over seven months, even in Sydney during its climax in August; and in its dominance of the seven weekly television football chat shows in Melbourne, and likewise for talkback radio.

More....
 
kennas said:
Harvey, then he stays as another senior assistant.

I was thinking Bailey, but adding tanking to doping probably doesn't look so cool.

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Good article this:

Essendon, and the push to bring down the gods of our secular religion

THIS year has seen further demonstration of the strange phenomenon of sport as religion. In question is the location of encounters with the sacred in the modern secular world.

When is it that most Australians are drawn out of their profane lives to become engaged in something more inspiring than the humdrum everyday; when the tepid blood suddenly begins to surge; when the passion barometer rises, moved by scintillating greatness, or dark iniquity; and even when there is some absurd sense that higher forces are at work, guiding events?

The Essendon Football Club drugs scandal has been the lead case, and it provides illuminating clues to the nature of secular religion in Australia today. Its status as the archetypal story of the year is evidenced in its monopolising front and back pages of newspapers over seven months, even in Sydney during its climax in August; and in its dominance of the seven weekly television football chat shows in Melbourne, and likewise for talkback radio.

More....
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Yes I read that. It was very good.

Hirdy and Bomber would be livid that Doc Reid got off ( although pleased for him). Hirdy wanted to keep fighting. I hope the scantimonious Caro and Patrick are embarrassed by the dropping of the charges by the AFL. Considering they were the primary mouthpieces of Andrew, I hope they realize they were just a pawn to be used by the AFL to get an outcome they wanted.

Duckman
 
After holding his hands for about 6 years we get him fit and playing OK and trade him to Freeo. One of Essendon's worst mistakes. Shocking. :banghead:

Chappy, on the other hand, if he can stay on the park, is a steel.

Why the Bulldogs wanted a medium size forward so much is puzzling. He's only scored goals because we have no one else. Hurley certainly wasn't taking any off him.

Looks like Joe is going to be thrust into one of the key positions now. Or a pocket switching with Bellchambers and Ryder. Probably a good three way ruck/fwd line.

Add Chappy, Licker and Davey and it looks OK.

Just keep Hurley in the backline FFS. He and Carlisle, Hooker, Goddard, Dempsey, Bags, Hibberd back there will be just fine. No room for Pears.

Would have liked Dal Santo...
 
kennas said:
After holding his hands for about 6 years we get him fit and playing OK and trade him to Freeo. One of Essendon's worst mistakes. Shocking. :banghead:
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Another year, hopefully not another controversy!

Not sure what to make of this year. We probably over-performed last year - on the back of the seige mentality.

Our forward line looks shaky.

What do people think? Top 4, Top 8 or No Finals

Duckman
 
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