Essendon - Supporter Support

[Sean K]

... and even further back, when Hird was one of the most scathing critics in the campaign against Cousins and Gardner. Yes, they associated with shady characters and "used" - but that was in their private lives, outside the sport, and what they took certainly did not enhance their performance. Not condoning their conduct, not even agreeing with Richmond's "life line" to the Cuz; but I can't get thoughts like "Holier than Thou" and "hypocrite" out of my mind when I hear how all those earlier arguments are forgotten now that the roles are reversed.

Which Essendon player is, or ever has been, at risk of obesity that they'd need injections?
I'm sure the Legal Team will be able to explain that too.

Disgusted

I think the players should have more leniency with taking anything recreational when it's not in the public, but should not be compared with taking 'performance enhancing' drugs.

We delve into philosophical territory here, but how does AOD improve performance. No one can answer that on what we have been presented and can google.

How is that disgusting?

Everyone is jumping at shadows.

 

[banco]

I think the players should have more leniency with taking anything recreational when it's not in the public, but should not be compared with taking 'performance enhancing' drugs.

We delve into philosophical territory here, but how does AOD improve performance. No one can answer that on what we have been presented and can google.

How is that disgusting?

Everyone is jumping at shadows.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that AOD has an anabolic effect but why were the players being given it if the intent wasn't to improve performance? It seems like they were fed a line about it's positive effects (despite the lack of evidence) and decided to give it a go (which makes them look even dumber if the drug that has caused them all this trouble had no positive effects).

They are like kids that get sold oregano thinking it's pot.

 

[Sean K]

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that AOD has an anabolic effect but why were the players being given it if the intent wasn't to improve performance? It seems like they were fed a line about it's positive effects (despite the lack of evidence) and decided to give it a go (which makes them look even dumber if the drug that has caused them all this trouble had no positive effects).

They are like kids that get sold oregano thinking it's pot.

Yes, I agree. Why take it if it doesn't have an effect?



Poor argument.

I suppose their argument is that it was just a BS attempt to gain a recovery advantage. Does that enhance performance? On last years results, the answer is more than obviously no.

 

[banco]

Yes, I agree. Why take it if it doesn't have an effect?



Poor argument.

I suppose their argument is that it was just a BS attempt to gain a recovery advantage. Does that enhance performance? On last years results, the answer is more than obviously no.

If a drug increases recovery then it's a performance enhancer (a lot of the stuff Tour De France guys take is designed to increase recovery).

 

[Sean K]

If a drug increases recovery then it's a performance enhancer (a lot of the stuff Tour De France guys take is designed to increase recovery).

I agree.

Like walking in freezing cold water the day after playing aids recovery. Like making sure you consume sufficient proteins after a game to aid in regeneration of the muscles. Llike carbo loading from Thursday night to aid in maximum energy. Like getting a pain killing injection at half time after a dislocated finger. Like being stitched up at three quarter time. Where is the line in the sand? The line is the legally placed left and right of arc by the governing bodies. If Essendon have crossed that line, then fine. Proof?

 

[Trembling Hand]

I agree.

Like walking in freezing cold water the day after playing aids recovery. Like making sure you consume sufficient proteins after a game to aid in regeneration of the muscles. Llike carbo loading from Thursday night to aid in maximum energy. Like getting a pain killing injection at half time after a dislocated finger. Like being stitched up at three quarter time. Where is the line in the sand? The line is the legally placed left and right of arc by the governing bodies. If Essendon have crossed that line, then fine. Proof?

Kennas you most definitely have crossed the line when you give something to your players that isn't approved for human use.

You most certainly crossed the line when you cannot tell with certainty what you have injected into your players. That alone has nothing to do with performance enhancing but the worst failure of duty of care.

 

[banco]

I agree.

Like walking in freezing cold water the day after playing aids recovery. Like making sure you consume sufficient proteins after a game to aid in regeneration of the muscles. Llike carbo loading from Thursday night to aid in maximum energy. Like getting a pain killing injection at half time after a dislocated finger. Like being stitched up at three quarter time. Where is the line in the sand? The line is the legally placed left and right of arc by the governing bodies. If Essendon have crossed that line, then fine. Proof?

If they administered AOD (which haven't denied) then they administered a banned substance. There's an old legal saying:

“These are my final words on advocacy. If you have the facts on your side, hammer the facts. If you have the law on your side, hammer the law. If you have neither the facts nor the law, hammer the table.”

Essendon isn't arguing the facts, they are down to arguing procedural issues (only an interim report, can AFL and ASADA cooperate under ASADA's Act etc.). Pretty soon they'll down to hammering the table.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Pretty soon they'll down to hammering the table.

Not "they" so much as Hird alone. :viking:

How ridiculous does he look?

 

[MrBurns]

I don't see any criminal charges pending

It all revolves around using peptides that weren't banned at time

Diimtrious is an over paid fool who should be replaced

 

[IFocus]

If it was the national swimming team do you recon they would let a coach try and dictate terms?

 

[Trembling Hand]

I don't see any criminal charges pending

It all revolves around using peptides that weren't banned at time

Diimtrious is an over paid fool who should be replaced

Burns you cannot be serious. Hird is cooked.

 

[chiff]

My twenty cents worth..Essendon are on a hiding to nothing,if nothing else,the catch all bringing the game into disrepute will do them in.
And that they have certainly done in spades.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

If it was the national swimming team do you recon they would let a coach try and dictate terms?

Hird's different, and that's the point you're making, I think. It's interesting because he has such a strong belief in himself. Guys with strong beliefs in anything take a long time to crack, and when they do it's not pretty. The strength of belief is what made him successful, and now it will be his undoing. Shakespeare could have written this. Act 4, scenes 5-10 - Hird in denial.

 

[Knobby22]

Hird's different, and that's the point you're making, I think. It's interesting because he has such a strong belief in himself. Guys with strong beliefs in anything take a long time to crack, and when they do it's not pretty. The strength of belief is what made him successful, and now it will be his undoing. Shakespeare could have written this. Act 4, scenes 5-10 - Hird in denial.

Well put.

All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,

His reliance on Little is now a crutch, if Little abandons him then his fall will be complete.

 

[stewiejp]

My twenty cents worth..Essendon are on a hiding to nothing,if nothing else,the catch all bringing the game into disrepute will do them in.
And that they have certainly done in spades.

The game certainly has been bought into disrepute, but by who? Essendon, the AFL, the media? I would argue the media are the ones who have bought the game into disrepute IF the "supplements" weren't on the banned list at the time (which is what I understand/read somewhere), but the AFL has no jurisdiction over the media, unless the sue in the courts in which case the media will likely win.

Having said that, if the supplements were on the banned list, even as an Essendon supporter, I would be all for the Bombers spending some time in the VFL as punishment.

 

[pixel]

Burns you cannot be serious. Hird is cooked.

There seems to be a letter missing. Maybe an "r"?

Sad story, actually, which is repeated all too often:
You have a chap that can run and jump and catch - doing well in his sport, so everybody admires him for THAT skill. And he is given big money for THAT skill. But then he thinks he is really an all-round Divine Being, who can do no wrong in all aspects of life. From that feeling of self-importance is but a small step to the illusion (DElusion?) "I am above the Law and everything I do and say must be accepted by those around me. I am right. Everybody that disagrees with me is wrong!"

 

[chiff]

Bringing the game into disrepute....We only know what we get from the media,but didn't the players have to sign a waiver before they took part in the experimental substance experiments.Only one player refused to do so we are told.
Why are the parents being assured at meetings that their sons have not been given any dangerous substances?
I see Essendon are trying to divert blame from themselves-probably postponing the inevitable.
All will be revealed in due course .But not if Essendon can stop it.

 

[nomore4s]

The game certainly has been bought into disrepute, but by who? Essendon, the AFL, the media? I would argue the media are the ones who have bought the game into disrepute IF the "supplements" weren't on the banned list at the time (which is what I understand/read somewhere), but the AFL has no jurisdiction over the media, unless the sue in the courts in which case the media will likely win.

Having said that, if the supplements were on the banned list, even as an Essendon supporter, I would be all for the Bombers spending some time in the VFL as punishment.

I don't get why Essendon supporters are constantly blaming the media and the AFL for the situation they are in. EFC are the ones that let this happen at their own club and are now paying the price for it.

Whether they did administer banned drugs or not, what went on at the club in 2012 is a disgrace and the club and people involved deserve to pay a price for it. Ziggy's report and Dr Reid's letter are proof enough for me that Essendon lost control of some of it's employee's and put players health and playing careers at risk because of it. And more and more evidence is coming out that makes it look like Hird was at the centre of it all.

How Essendon supporters continue to blame everyone else but aren't angry at the club is amazing. If this happened at Hawthorn I would be furious with the club and everyone involved.

 

[Trembling Hand]

How Essendon supporters continue to blame everyone else but aren't angry at the club is amazing. If this happened at Hawthorn I would be furious with the club and everyone involved.

Yep and you would want the club to drop whoever was involved like a stinking bag of dog poop on fire before they take down the whole club.

 

[Sean K]

Love you long time nomore-premierships-for-hawks, but; there is a line. Somewhere. All other clubs must be in an absolute panic right now because of their own 'programs'. All clubs have a program. Essendon just did what was expected. Have a program within the legal limits to make the players as physically ready as possible. Not to necessarily make them run faster, or jump higher, or be stronger; just to recover in time for the next game. Let's all take a breath here.

The media throng continue to sensationalise this, and it's shocking. Caro has a thing about Essendon, and she is the main protagonist with this trial by media debacle. Her attack on Tim Watson today was particularly disturbing. What have you done for the game Caro? At this stage, any of your tabloid commentary means nothing compared to the years and years of blood sweat and tears provided by amazing athletes and servants of the game. When was the last time you pulled the boots on? I'm disgusted that someone with so little skin in the game can manipulate people's minds like this.

Go James! Take Dimheadrio to the cleaners.

I'm embarrassed he's an Essendon supporter.