NBN Rollout Scrapped

[pixel]

Hey Pixel, you didn't do a very good job of blurring out iinet. Best wishes with your next ISP.

Actually, it was Telstra's techs that couldn't get the landline stable enough for ADSL2. They told me our copper was so badly corroded that it would have to be replaced, but as NBN would come in 3 or 4 years, Telstra won't spend a cent any more. After all, the USO stipulates phone service. iiNet even put me on one of Telstra's DSLAMs and a "stable" profile. Result: 630 dropouts in a month, 111 peak on a single day! As that still didn't fix my problem, I got the TIO involved, and received my Internet subscription refunded back to April; that's when the trouble started.

 

[sydboy007]

Actually, it was Telstra's techs that couldn't get the landline stable enough for ADSL2. They told me our copper was so badly corroded that it would have to be replaced, but as NBN would come in 3 or 4 years, Telstra won't spend a cent any more. After all, the USO stipulates phone service. iiNet even put me on one of Telstra's DSLAMs and a "stable" profile. Result: 630 dropouts in a month, 111 peak on a single day! As that still didn't fix my problem, I got the TIO involved, and received my Internet subscription refunded back to April; that's when the trouble started.

My job revolves around dealing with this kind of issue every day. I think the LNP have painted themselves into a corner, not willing to admit just how badly the copper has been maintained by Telstra, and how expensive it would be to replace.

I get 12Mbs and a reasonably stable connection, and there's no one at work that comes close to my speed or reliability. They'd all take slow and stable, but get slow and constant dropouts.

Now that the LNP have come out and admitted the ~25% of households in the HFC footprint wont be getting any form of upgrade, I'm starting to wonder what they're really offering the punters.

 

[NBNMyths]

Coalition broadband policy "doomed to fail" : CCC

The Competitive Carriers Coalition, a group of telecommunications providers (including iiNet, AAPT, Hutchison Telecoms, Macquarie Telecom, Verizon Australia, PowerTel, iPrimus and TransACT) have slammed the LNP broadband policy as being "doomed to fail", saying "it will undermine competition" and that "it will adversely affect consumer outcomes."

http://www.afr.com/p/technology/coalition_broadband_plan_doomed_y82LOVLL6tXZv4peNCKBHN

http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2013/02/15/3691240.htm


I guess we can add them to the list.

Who would have thought there would be a coalition policy that ignores the advice and opinions of the industry experts....
http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/what-do-the-experts-say/

 

[drsmith]

Re: Coalition broadband policy "doomed to fail" : CCC

Malcolm Turnbull's response,

http://www.afr.com/p/technology/turnbull_hits_back_at_nbn_backers_A02PyZx3X9ivGn8rLd7RnM

 

[NBNMyths]

Re: Coalition broadband policy "doomed to fail" : CCC

Malcolm Turnbull's response,

http://www.afr.com/p/technology/turnbull_hits_back_at_nbn_backers_A02PyZx3X9ivGn8rLd7RnM

And as usual, he's full of it.

For a start, only about 30% of HFC passed premises can actually connect to it. Then there's the strawman statement about the NBN being able to "charge higher and higher prices".

The fact of the matter is that NBN Co’s prices are regulated by the ACCC. And the SAU submitted to them by NBN Co specifies that they will not be able to increase their pricing at all for the first 5 years. After that, they’ll only be able to lift them at a maximum of 1.5% below CPI in any one year, for the next 25 years. In other words, their prices must fall by at least 1.5% in real terms for the next 30 years.

And the above is worst-case. In reality, given the enormous takeup of 100Mbps speeds on the NBN (almost 50% so far), prices are likely to fall in both real and nominal terms, because the NBN Co is not permitted to earn more than a ~7% return, which will happen if the takeup of 100Mbps speeds continues at the present rate.

 

[sydboy007]

Re: Coalition broadband policy "doomed to fail" : CCC

Who would have thought there would be a coalition policy that ignores the advice and opinions of the industry experts....
http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/what-do-the-experts-say/

It is a strange world we live in when the ALP seems to be guided by market forces much more than the LNP.

As for NBN prices beign unafordable, so far not seen it, and so far the LNP are giving private enterprises free reign to charge as they please under their NoBN, unlike the NBN which is restricted in raising prices to below CPI.

At least with every revelation the LNP make now shows just how inadequate their NoBN really is.

NBN = world class user pays infrastructure

NoBN = endless Govt subsidy and increasing OPEX to maintain a copper network that's rotting in the ground.

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: Coalition broadband policy "doomed to fail" : CCC

It is a strange world we live in when the ALP seems to be guided by market forces much more than the LNP.

Except when messed about with by NSW and Vic politicians in the 1980's, ye olde public utilities generally always were pretty conscious of market forces, something which seemed to bewilder their "free market" critics who never understood why so-called monopolies did in fact need to advertise on account of competitive pressures.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not some tin foil hat-wearing communist who hates private enterprise. Not at all, business is a good thing (and this is a stock forum after all). It's just that the only examples I've ever seen of private enterprise successfully running infrastructure over an extended period are when they have to compete directly against a rival state-run service. Eg privately owned gas versus government-owned electricity is the obvious one. Other than that, the end result is the same practically every time. Private ownership ends up costing the community more for the service, is less technically efficient in operation and ends up with the physical infrastructure in ruin or damn close to it.

The crux of the problem is that infrastructure is a long term proposition. In 2013 we are still very heavily reliant in infrastructure which commenced construction in the 1940's, 50's and 60's. That's where most of our energy and water comes from, and much of our transport infrastructure too. And there's nothing wrong with that, if something lasts 100 years then there's no reason at all why we shouldn't still be using 60 year old infrastructure. The trouble is, private enterprise has a strong dislike of investing now, with no hope of even one cent of income for 5 - 10 years and break even being 30 years away. Things like that are better done by government authorities run by competent people and placed out of easy reach of politicians - the old state utility model.

Leave business to run business and governments to run national / state / city infrastructure in my opinion and don't mix the two.

 

[sydboy007]

Re: Coalition broadband policy "doomed to fail" : CCC

Private ownership ends up costing the community more for the service, is less technically efficient in operation and ends up with the physical infrastructure in ruin or damn close to it.

The crux of the problem is that infrastructure is a long term proposition. In 2013 we are still very heavily reliant in infrastructure which commenced construction in the 1940's, 50's and 60's. That's where most of our energy and water comes from, and much of our transport infrastructure too. And there's nothing wrong with that, if something lasts 100 years then there's no reason at all why we shouldn't still be using 60 year old infrastructure. The trouble is, private enterprise has a strong dislike of investing now, with no hope of even one cent of income for 5 - 10 years and break even being 30 years away. Things like that are better done by government authorities run by competent people and placed out of easy reach of politicians - the old state utility model.

Leave business to run business and governments to run national / state / city infrastructure in my opinion and don't mix the two.

Couldn't agree more. Add in the fact that private enterprises practically wont train anyone these days, but will whinge about the lack of qualified tradies and moan of the high wages they have to pay resource workers. The old state water and electricity companies churned out loads of tradies. Telecom did too. These days the level 1 tech for Telstra are all contractors who have barely a clue as to how to fix a fault.

I also think PPPs should be a thing of the past. Let the Govt borrow cheaply, set the cost to the public at a rate to pay off the debt over 40-50 years and we all win by getting the infrastructure we need at a far cheaper rate with no shonky backdoor deals. Cheap toll roads that can be built with extra lanes to cope with future demand. I remember 1 of the toll roads built in Sydney had a clause which stipulated if the Govt built any public transport or did anything that could limit the traffic on the road that the building entity would be entitled to compensation. How is that good for the people??? Thank you Mr Greiner.

I bet if the Fed Govt was selling 30 year bonds right now they could get away with it for around 4%. Imagine the kind of infrastructure we could build. A lot of foreign Governments and investors would jump at the chance to get a real yield on their money. Might as well take their cheap money and rid us of all the bottlenecks that the lack of infrastructure is causing.

 

[So_Cynical]

This is going to be a mess, politically the noalition cant continue the roll out as planned because they fought so hard against it that to turn around and support it would make them look stupid...so they will have to tinker with it, so it can be re-branded as their own.

And that's going to lead to a half arsed NBN.

 

[medicowallet]

This is going to be a mess, politically the noalition cant continue the roll out as planned because they fought so hard against it that to turn around and support it would make them look stupid...so they will have to tinker with it, so it can be re-branded as their own.

And that's going to lead to a half arsed NBN.

So you are saying for 99% of users,

They will only be able to D/L pr0n and pirated movies 2x faster than now and not 4x

and their productivity will remain exactly the same

and their consumption will increase at a slower rate than before..


Not sure how this is a negative.

MW
(Working in the real world)

 

[So_Cynical]

So you are saying for 99% of users,

They will only be able to D/L pr0n and pirated movies 2x faster than now and not 4x

and their productivity will remain exactly the same

and their consumption will increase at a slower rate than before..


Not sure how this is a negative.

MW
(Working in the real world)

Dude you have no idea at all...it may be all about handicapped animal snuff pr0n at your house but out in the real world its not.

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: Coalition broadband policy "doomed to fail" : CCC

These days the level 1 tech for Telstra are all contractors who have barely a clue as to how to fix a fault.

Crux of the problem there is that it's been "dumbed down" to a somewhat ridiculous extent, largely to reduce the cost of training.

It extends beyond the trades however. It used to be quite common to encounter people, in all fields, who really knew what they were on about and who could explain things in great detail. There are a lot fewer such people about these days, and those that exist tend to be in specialised (and fairly well paid) fields that do not involve dealing with the general public.

 

[sails]

...And that's going to lead to a half arsed NBN.

And that would seem to be a significant improvement to what we have now...

 

[NBNMyths]

Chaos: Coalition a total shambles on NBN policy | Delimiter

Technology website Delimiter is the latest to put the boot into the coalition for their broadband policy disarray.

Turnbull can't make up his mind what they're going to do, but constantly mentions FTTN and HFC cable;
Abbott claims they'll save $50bn (more than the total cost of the NBN), and still deliver a new nationwide FTTN broadband network (with what money?);
Hockey says that we should all use 4G wireless instead;
Coalition backbenchers are campaining everywhere for the NBN to be rolled out first in their seats, but at the same time complaining it's a waste of money and voting against it in parliament.

Chaos indeed!

Chaos: Coalition a total shambles on NBN policy | Delimiter

Up until now, I’ve been willing to give the Coalition the benefit of the doubt when it comes to national broadband policy, due primarily to the intelligence and experience of its Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull. But events last week starkly demonstrated the Coalition is currently a complete mess when it comes to this critical portfolio.

Two weeks ago, from an outside perspective, the Coalition more or less appeared to have overcome the internal disagreements which have plagued Tony Abbott’s front bench about the future of the NBN. Turnbull’s vision of an expedited, more inexpensive upgrade of Telstra’s copper network to fibre to the node technology, using the bones of NBN Co to do so, and maintaining existing HFC cable infrastructure as well as much of the satellite and wireless components of the NBN, appeared to have gained ascendancy over the “demolish the NBN”, “white elephant” rhetoric of less technically minded Coalition politicians such as Abbott and Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey.

Today, we’re right back where we started: In complete chaos. Turnbull is demonstrating his technical and commercial ineptitude by pitching a technology to the electorate which most Australians have considered deprecated for most of the past decade, and Abbott is back on the bandwagon about how expensive the NBN “white elephant” is, despite the fact that it is actually slated to deliver the Government a long-term return on its investment.
....
But all of the signals coming out of the Coalition so far are that, when it comes to national telecommunications policy, it’s not capable of organising that proverbial chook raffle; let alone taking charge of something as complex and important as the NBN.

Read the full article at: http://delimiter.com.au/2013/02/18/chaos-coalition-a-total-shambles-on-nbn-policy/

 

[albaby]

Dude you have no idea at all...it may be all about handicapped animal snuff pr0n at your house but out in the real world its not.

Nearly fell off my zimmer frame when I spotted this,great line So-C.

 

[sydboy007]

David Braue on ZDnet has just blown a huge hole in Bullturns fig leaf of saying he can't provide a costing on the LNP NoBN because he can't know what the cost of current contracts will be.

Well David has collated publicly available data to show that the cost of current contracts will be ~$1B post Sept 2013.

So I ask, if a lowly IT journalist is able to do the math to come up with this information, how is it the superior economic management skills of the LNP not able to do the same?

Heaven help up if this mob get their butts onto the treasury benches.

If the LNP can't get their figures right on a <$40B infrastructure project, then what chance do they have to get things right in a $1.5T economy

Bullturn has changed the cost of the NoBN so many times it's laughable.

 

[moXJO]

I don't think the benefits of the NBN will be realized for a number of years. Libs should bite the bullet and be supporting NBN imo as it will foster new business directions.
They will more then likely leave it alone if they win the election.

 

[sptrawler]

I don't think the benefits of the NBN will be realized for a number of years. Libs should bite the bullet and be supporting NBN imo as it will foster new business directions.
They will more then likely leave it alone if they win the election.

I'm with you on that, I think if the libs get in and it makes sense to keep rolling it out, they will.
All they will say is it is past the point of rollng it back.
At this point in time it is about winning an election, if the coalition back flipped at the moment, labor would carve them up.IMO

 

[sydboy007]

I'm with you on that, I think if the libs get in and it makes sense to keep rolling it out, they will.
All they will say is it is past the point of rollng it back.
At this point in time it is about winning an election, if the coalition back flipped at the moment, labor would carve them up.IMO

Once again attaining political power trumps supporting sound policy.

There'd be short term pain in a backflip, but it just might be the circuit breaker needed to shake his Dr NO image.

 

[moXJO]

Once again attaining political power trumps supporting sound policy.

There'd be short term pain in a backflip, but it just might be the circuit breaker needed to shake his Dr NO image.

I know there are lib members currently lobbying for Tbull to change his mind. Libs are more likely to listen then labor would. I think current NBN position is like you said: a smokescreen to political power.