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Should the North of Australia be developed, or populated by FIFO and 457 visas?

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sptrawler

sptrawler

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Are Abbott and the Libs barking up the wrong tree.
Should we just mine it and desert it when the resources run out?

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...ned-to-be-a-grand-failure-20130207-2e03z.html

Is Craig Emerson right? If he is and he thinks it is a waste of time and money putting infrastructure in the North. Why are they putting in the NBN up there?
Is good old Ross Gittins right? Well he will agree with whatever Labor say.
Will the manufacturing base recover, will the glory days return?
Will we return to living on the sheeps back.

Well maybe we might have to develop the North, if job losses keep going like this.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/state-loses-30000-jobs-in-one-month-20130207-2e1d2.html
 
sptrawler said:
Are Abbott and the Libs barking up the wrong tree.
Should we just mine it and desert it when the resources run out?

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...ned-to-be-a-grand-failure-20130207-2e03z.html

Is Craig Emerson right? If he is and he thinks it is a waste of time and money putting infrastructure in the North. Why are they putting in the NBN up there?
Is good old Ross Gittins right? Well he will agree with whatever Labor say.
Will the manufacturing base recover, will the glory days return?
Will we return to living on the sheeps back.

Well maybe we might have to develop the North, if job losses keep going like this.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/state-loses-30000-jobs-in-one-month-20130207-2e1d2.html
Click to expand...

The North will develop with or without help from Canberra.

It would make more sense though to have incentives for a planned movement northwards as southern cities such as Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne are becoming too large to sustain their populations.

As long as you keep all your extremists such as militant godbotherers, warmists, basketweavers, factions, ABC Radio National bludgers, grey nomads and politically motivated public servants down there, I for one would have nothing against it.

A movement of workers, farmers and small business people north, interested in growing our great northern Australia would be welcomed. They would find like-minded people here.

gg
 
I think developing the north could be great for both the area as well as Australia, but like most things, it will completely depend on how it's implemented.

If we're every allowed to build dams again in this country, then the north has plenty of water to supply both agriculture, as well as residential supplies. Its not like they're starting from scratch either, and all though not all the infrastructure might no be as complete as that down south, at least for the most part it's already there to some extent.

The one thing that has interested me about the whole debate is the scaremongering of splitting the country in two, or new tax rules, but why couldn't they just use the existing items in place such as the "zone tax offset" ?
 
demiser said:
I think developing the north could be great for both the area as well as Australia, but like most things, it will completely depend on how it's implemented.

If we're every allowed to build dams again in this country, then the north has plenty of water to supply both agriculture, as well as residential supplies. Its not like they're starting from scratch either, and all though not all the infrastructure might no be as complete as that down south, at least for the most part it's already there to some extent.

The one thing that has interested me about the whole debate is the scaremongering of splitting the country in two, or new tax rules, but why couldn't they just use the existing items in place such as the "zone tax offset" ?
Click to expand...

Precisely, above the 26th parrallel is a different tax zone already.

So why are so many people against building a more diverse and structuraly stronger and sustainable ecomomy in Australia?

Better to tell everyone she'll be right, get on the computer, it's fast it's fun it's informative.
Most third world countries have the internet and mobile phones, I don't see it lifting them out of poverty.
We have no choice IMO, than to develop our north.
 
I visited Darwin and the Far North for the first time last year..impressions.

Jesus H Christ there's a lot of nothing out there, seemingly endless hours of nothingness then a little settlement and more endless hours of nothing...Darwin was very nice, i could live there, has a big, cool, sophisticated country town feel to it, development will come and is happening, lots of jobs in Darwin..The Isa was just a big Bogan suburb.

Some help should be given to the north, a tax break of some kind would be appropriate.
 
So_Cynical said:
I visited Darwin and the Far North for the first time last year..impressions.

Jesus H Christ there's a lot of nothing out there, seemingly endless hours of nothingness then a little settlement and more endless hours of nothing...Darwin was very nice, i could live there, has a big, cool, sophisticated country town feel to it, development will come and is happening, lots of jobs in Darwin..The Isa was just a big Bogan suburb.

Some help should be given to the north, a tax break of some kind would be appropriate.
Click to expand...

The U.S was like that 100 years ago.
The world is facing a massive food shortage in the forseable future, at present we are riding a resources boom, that will end.
Even Labor agree it is finite, that was the excuse for the MRRT, when the mining is finished, what then?

With current ideology, the dongas, machinery and salvagable equipment will be sold off and as per Shay Gap, there will be nothing but a hole in the ground.
Meanwhile manufacturing jobs will continue to disappear and more of the workers that worked on the mines will be fighting for the available work in the cities.
It has to end up in tears, unless they have a long term view.
If they don't develop the north, IMO the average Australian is in for a big change in living standards.
It might not happen in 10years but the effects will show within 20. IMO
As an aside, when is the 457 visa system closing down?

There is some interesting reading here.
http://labourhistoryperth.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/papers-in-labour-history-no-8_wa.pdf

At least then there was a sense of communty
 
From this article on 'the drum' at current recovery rates, our resources will last 70 or so years.
That doesn't take into account, advancements in recovery techniques and improvements in moving and carrying capacities of machinery.
So in real terms, it could be sooner.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4498560.html

It will be really interesting, how it is managed.
 
sptrawler said:
From this article on 'the drum' at current recovery rates, our resources will last 70 or so years.
Click to expand...
25 years or so ago I recall being told that Australia had enough coal (black coal) to last 800 years or so.

Not too long ago that figure was accepted as being 400 years.

Then it was 200 years.

The most recent data I've seen, which was only this week, puts it at 100 years.

Realistically, my own expectation is that we'll see a production peak in both black coal and natural gas somewhere around 20 years from now. After that it's all downhill.

For those not aware, the UK once dominated the coal business. Production peaked in 1913 and has trended down ever since. From an overall perspective, Thatcher closing unprofitable mines in the 1980's made a minor contribution to the overall trend - it's depletion of the resource that really killed it (it's still a minor industry there today and there's still a general down trend in the remaining production). Australia will eventually go the same way - it's a finite resource after all.

The simple fact that a big mining company proposed to develop an export coal mine based on the low grade coal in the Fingal Valley (Tas) says it all really. This coal is poor quality and not of export grade. That someone wants it says all you need to know - the higher grade stuff is stating to become scarce such that the mining companies are looking at where to go next.

I don't know what the situation is with iron ore, but I'd expect it's the same general trend. Ever increasing rates of extraction will use up the reserves more quickly than most are expecting.

The notion that we can base much of our economy around digging up and selling a finite resource is much the same as basing your personal spending on gradually selling off assets to fund consumption. Or governments selling off assets to balance the budgets in the short term. A point comes where there's not much left to sell.
 
Smurf1976 said:
The notion that we can base much of our economy around digging up and selling a finite resource is much the same as basing your personal spending on gradually selling off assets to fund consumption. Or governments selling off assets to balance the budgets in the short term. A point comes where there's not much left to sell.
Click to expand...

In other words...a Ponzi Scheme.
 
Smurf1976 said:
I don't know what the situation is with iron ore, but I'd expect it's the same general trend. Ever increasing rates of extraction will use up the reserves more quickly than most are expecting.

The notion that we can base much of our economy around digging up and selling a finite resource is much the same as basing your personal spending on gradually selling off assets to fund consumption. Or governments selling off assets to balance the budgets in the short term. A point comes where there's not much left to sell.
Click to expand...

As usual a great reply, we have to accept we are in a purple patch, but to blow it on welfare and pandering to minority groups is stupid.

Everyone needs to think past next week.

I think if Australia said to China. "We don't want to populate the north of Australia and develop it".
Give us $300b and you can have the agricultural development rights and populate it as you like.
The money would be in the bank, monday morning.LOL
Actually I think if you asked for $3trillion, they would still take the deal.

This is the problem we say we don't want to live there, we don't want to develop it, everyone else is salivating over it.

The problem is we think the status quo will remain, but it won't :D
 
While I think that most of the governments and the opposition's policies are hogwash, I think this is a great idea if they actually go through and execute it well. (Edit : Developing it not digging it up)

Speaking of food production, I was recently in the Waikato region of NZ. It was good to see the progress that is being made on the back of farming and in particular dairy. I was very much surprised that although NZ only produces only a small percent of the worlds milk, they export 30% of world dairy products while Australia does only 10%.

Perhaps they should consider have even smaller hubs (within the tax incentives) dedicated to different industries to get local critical mass e.g Canada with the video games industry.
 
I think the north should be developed but I think it is a waste of time and money to develop boring agriculture. Dam the rivers - I'm all for that, but use the water for maximum value added ROI. I'm thinking tourism.

Massive raging water slides for the kids.

Barramundi World where the barra are trained to perform acrobatics in brackish water for a fifteen minute show every hour.

Croc Dundee world where you get to feed and wrestle with the crocs.

Water Buffalo paint ball.

I'm on a roll...
 
tinhat said:
I think the north should be developed but I think it is a waste of time and money to develop boring agriculture. Dam the rivers - I'm all for that, but use the water for maximum value added ROI. I'm thinking tourism.

Massive raging water slides for the kids.

Barramundi World where the barra are trained to perform acrobatics in brackish water for a fifteen minute show every hour.

Croc Dundee world where you get to feed and wrestle with the crocs.

Water Buffalo paint ball.

I'm on a roll...
Click to expand...

The ultimate sea world :D
 
tinhat said:
I think the north should be developed but I think it is a waste of time and money to develop boring agriculture. Dam the rivers - I'm all for that, but use the water for maximum value added ROI. I'm thinking tourism.

Massive raging water slides for the kids.

Barramundi World where the barra are trained to perform acrobatics in brackish water for a fifteen minute show every hour.

Croc Dundee world where you get to feed and wrestle with the crocs.

Water Buffalo paint ball.

I'm on a roll...
Click to expand...

And you wonder why we in the North hold you Southerners in such disdain.

What a disrespectful post.

While we earn for Australia you supposedly provide manufacturing, governance, infrastructure and asset management for us.

Twirl the helicopter blades on your head, tinhat, while you can afford to.

The main objection from Canberra to Abbott's ideas of a greater North is a loss of power.

Power is what it is all about.

And you will lose it.

gg
 
The problem isn't water. The problem is:

Terrible soils
Inhospitable weather at harvest time
Magpie geese
Other Birds
Market access


And, we don't want you here anyway.
 

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