Tony Abbott for PM

[sptrawler]

I think I've added some new topics to the debate.

As yet with all of your posts, not 1 of them has refuted anything I've said. Not one.

I know you believe we will have candy canes and double rainbows for all, with unicorns in the streets once Abbott is elected.

For the rest of us, I think we want a bit of evidence first.

At least I can say truthfully I have spend many hours reading about Abbott and what he has said and done in the past to get an understanding of his plans in office.

I would be surprised if you can honestly say the same!

So please stop attacking me and attack my arguments.

The moderators on this forum need to take a leaf from Whirlpool and start deleting posts that are off topic or personal attacks.

So please, pick 1 of the topics of my previous post and talk about it. Refute it, or agree with it, but talk about what I've said, not about me.

Sydboy, most off what you say is well researched and presented. However as to the issue will Tony Abbott make a reasonable P.M who knows?
Most people thought Kevin Rudd would make a good P.M and he was thrown out.
Before the 2007 election Rudd did very little regards presenting alternative policy, he adopted the me too approach, which proved successfull.
The crux of the matter is, it is up to the government to recover the electorates loss of confidence.
It isn't about wether Tony will make a better P.M, it's about wether the general public has the confidence to vote Labor again.
I think not, time will tell.
Meanwhile Labor will continue with the personal attack on Tony, because they have a poor legacy and can't use that as political tool.
Sad when after nearly 6 years in office, they can't hold up their acievements to be judged by. Feeling instead, they have better chance by denigrating the opposition leader. This tactic in itself, I feel reflects badly on them and shows their pack mentality again this reflects badly on Gillard.IMO

 

[Julia]

Seems there's no reasoning with you guys on here .

This is the classic remark when you are confronted with people who disagree.

The problem with turning up late is that all the things you are harping about including the Slippery Pete issue have been well covered in previous threads and posts. I don't think anyone is interested in re-hashing this old stuff, so it is good to see you won't be "commenting" again.

I think I've added some new topics to the debate.

As yet with all of your posts, not 1 of them has refuted anything I've said. Not one.

Perhaps because we have all covered it before and perhaps also because we can't be bothered arguing with someone who, especially looking at the detail and convoluted nature of his posts on the topic, rather appears to be trolling.
Perhaps you're on holiday and just a bit bored.

 

[sydboy007]

Meanwhile Labor will continue with the personal attack on Tony, because they have a poor legacy and can't use that as political tool.
Sad when after nearly 6 years in office, they can't hold up their acievements to be judged by.

Some of the things I think are noteworthy achievements for Labor since 2007

providing 711,000 additional training places over the period from 2008 to 2012 under the $1.97 billion Productivity Places Program.

Abolished work choices

invested over $2.3 billion in fighting cancer

Investing $27.7 billion over six years to improve road infrastructure

Cutting taxes so someone earning $50,000 a year is now paying $1,750 less in tax than they were in 2007.

Introducing Australia’s first ever national Paid Parental Leave scheme

Additional 50% tax deduction for Small Business during the Global Financial Crisis for investments in new productive assets, like new machinery.

funding over 1,000 new nurse training places every year and there will be an additional 1,300 GPs qualified or in training by 2013.

increased hospital funding by 50%

50,000 new university places

$4B package to provide dental services to more than one million low income adults and Australians in rural and remote areas, focusing especially on pensioners.

Construction of the NBN

Introduction of a price on Carbon (love it or hate it the Government has achieved it)

I'm sure with a bit more digging I could highlight other stuff but will suffice to refute your above statement. IMO

 

[sydboy007]

This is the classic remark when you are confronted with people who disagree.

Perhaps because we have all covered it before and perhaps also because we can't be bothered arguing with someone who, especially looking at the detail and convoluted nature of his posts on the topic, rather appears to be trolling.
Perhaps you're on holiday and just a bit bored.

Julia

I'll once again say, if anything I've said is factually incorrect, then please correct me.

I will also say that my first post today (#2892) covers some topics that I doubt have been covered previously in this thread - I will admit to only reading 25-30% of the pages though. Did you take the time to read it? Do you have anything to say about the topics I have written about?

You have see my posts in other threads. Can you honestly say I talk about something without doing research and showing a factually based argument?

If anything, most of the responses to my posts have been anything but factually based. They generally attack my character / motivation for posting.

So attack my ideas please, I'm all for reasoned factually based discussion.

 

[Calliope]

If anything, most of the responses to my posts have been anything but factually based. They generally attack my character / motivation for posting.

It is obvious that you have adopted the Gillard/John McTernan approach to criticism. The thrust of this tactic is to say that any criticism of her policies (or lack of policies) and her shady past, is based on sexism or misogyny. You similarly, try to dismiss any criticism as an attack on your character.

Have you been coached in this tactic? I have noted you have said it is working well in the Gillard/John McTernan hate campaign against Abbott.

The main issue with your commentaries is that they contain nothing new and are just re-hashes of past discussions.

However if you enjoy doing this, keep it up...just stop rubbishing other posters for lack of interest.

 

[sails]

...Border protection:

Tony says he will turn back the boats.

Looking at the history of the Howard Govt - Only five of more than 240 boats that arrived were ever turned back

TPVs did little to halt the boats. More than 8400 people arrived on boats in the two years after TPVs were introduced in 1999

Of the 11,000 refugees granted TPVs, most stayed in Australia anyway. Only 379 were sent home....

What about the rest of the pacific solution??? You mention one part of it only. Typical labor propaganda...

The Pacific Solution (which LABOR broke and hasn't been able to do better) consisted of TPVs, offshore processing and turning back the boats WHEN IT IS SAFE TO DO SO (something else you conveniently omitted).

AND the figures you give were BEFORE the pacific solution was implemented in 2001. Start doing some detailed research into what happened in the six years following that. Have posted a chart below to show what happened with the Pacific Solution and yet you have the audacity to give the illusion that somehow the libs can't control our borders. Shame on you.

If you are going to post such distorted stuff, you can expect it to annoy other posters so don't start the "poor me" nonsense.

I haven't gone through the rest of your post, but if it contains the seeming illusions and half truths contained in this one on our border protection, that is despicable.

Definition of propaganda from google:
"Information, esp. of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view."

This chart is not complete to the best of my knowledge - there were more arrivals than shown for 2012:

 

[sails]

It is obvious that you have adopted the Gillard/John McTernan approach to criticism. The thrust of this tactic is to say that any criticism of her policies (or lack of policies) and her shady past, is based on sexism or misogyny. You similarly, try to dismiss any criticism as an attack on your character.

Have you been coached in this tactic? I have noted you have said it is working well in the Gillard/John McTernan hate campaign against Abbott.

The main issue with your commentaries is that they contain nothing new and are just re-hashes of past discussions.

However if you enjoy doing this, keep it up...just stop rubbishing other posters for lack of interest.

I have my suspicions he is a paid labor propagandist...

Could explain the high pay and, if so, it's probably at our expense...grrr

 

[dutchie]

Sad when after nearly 6 years in office, they can't hold up their achievements to be judged by. Feeling instead, they have better chance by denigrating the opposition leader. This tactic in itself, I feel reflects badly on them and shows their pack mentality again this reflects badly on Gillard.IMO

This is the crux of all debate on this thread and the others like it.

 

[MrBurns]

I have my suspicions he is a paid labor propagandist...

Could explain the high pay and, if so, it's probably at our expense...grrr

I'd say so too, no one goes to the trouble he has without good reason.

I for one dont even read his posts, perhaps the first line but it's just not interesting enough.

He is going to extraordianry lengths to get his message accross, extraordinary lengths...........paid comment most likely.:frown:

 

[sails]

This is the crux of all debate on this thread and the others like it.

Agree - it is a diversionary tactic for sure. Much like the NLP often used by sales people.

Anyway, found this on Michael Smith's site:

"I like Tony Abbott. He's a man's man. I think he'd die happy if the local Surf Lifesaving Club, the Volunteer Fire Service and his local community all spoke about his dependability. He'd be smiling too if the aboriginal community where he volunteers every year spoke at this eulogy.

When I departed from 2UE he rang me on my mobile. I was at St George hospital with my sister Kath, Kath was crying her eyes out at the time because my nephew Zach was in a bad way after a prang. I explained the situation to Tony that it was a bad time to talk, he said put her on, he and Kath then had a 20 minute chat. He'd never met her. It meant so much to my sister who was beside herself, there's a lot more to that story but it was Tony's practicality and fair-dinkumness along with his very real pastoral care that I remember. I know my sister does too....


...I haven't spoken to Tony Abbott for many months now. I am not a promoter of the Liberal Party and I can see why the Liberal Party would not want to be associated with me, my observations today about the Arab-clad people who are consistently filthying up the park at Sans Souci is one reason. I know that a lot of people find those comments of mine confronting - politicians in particular do. But I find the anti-Tony Abbott commentary confronting and intriguing. Why is it that the real man remains unknown to the bulk of us, yet the caricature is so widely reported, joked about and commented on?"​

Read more:
http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2013/01/a-few-monday-morning-words-about-tony-abbott.html

 

[sptrawler]

Some of the things I think are noteworthy achievements for Labor since 2007

providing 711,000 additional training places over the period from 2008 to 2012 under the $1.97 billion Productivity Places Program.

Abolished work choices

invested over $2.3 billion in fighting cancer

Investing $27.7 billion over six years to improve road infrastructure

Cutting taxes so someone earning $50,000 a year is now paying $1,750 less in tax than they were in 2007.

Introducing Australia’s first ever national Paid Parental Leave scheme

Additional 50% tax deduction for Small Business during the Global Financial Crisis for investments in new productive assets, like new machinery.

funding over 1,000 new nurse training places every year and there will be an additional 1,300 GPs qualified or in training by 2013.

increased hospital funding by 50%

50,000 new university places

$4B package to provide dental services to more than one million low income adults and Australians in rural and remote areas, focusing especially on pensioners.

Construction of the NBN

Introduction of a price on Carbon (love it or hate it the Government has achieved it)

I'm sure with a bit more digging I could highlight other stuff but will suffice to refute your above statement. IMO

Well then why persist with the venemous personal attack?
Consider how you would look if you mounted a continuous personal attack on one of the people you compete with at work.
Some of your workmates will agree with you, some will dissagree, however the one thing for certain they will all lose respect for you.
It is the oppositions job to criticise government policy if it can be proved to have failed.
It is the governments job to make and enact policy for which they will be judged.
However this government, as I have said and has been stated endlessly, have constantly made it all about Tony.
They are being judged on that, and are being found wanting, the sexist tirade was a childish un Australian display, that I feel will just add to the voter backlash.
Then you have Wayne Swan coming out and saying the personal attacks have to stop. Has he got amnesia or what? has he forgotten the public tonque lashing he gave Kevin Rudd recently on the public stage?
Again, it is a sad indictment on the country when the goverment tries to run it as they would a stop work meeting, in the carpark. IMO
The election can't come soon enough for most Australians, again my opinion.
Anyway have a nice day

 

[noco]

I'd say so too, no one goes to the trouble he has without good reason.

I for one dont even read his posts, perhaps the first line but it's just not interesting enough.

He is going to extraordianry lengths to get his message accross, extraordinary lengths...........paid comment most likely.:frown:

Yes Mr. Burns you are dead right.

Funny though he never talks about the $250 to $300 billion this Green/Labor left wing socialist Government has borrowed to pay for their HARE BRAIN SCHEMES including the money borrowed to give to Foreign aid.

It has to be paid back with interest and his silence on this matter is deafening.

 

[explod]

That's the problem. Your "commentaries" are too one-sided. Perhaps you should hone up on Gillard's and Slipper's antics.



It is worrying that you see criticism of your views as "personal attacks."

P.S. Your "commentary" left out Industrial Relations where you could have reasonably criticised Abbott for his inaction on ideas to dismantle the iniquitous FWA.

At least he does have some commentary with content.

Yourself and Burns just sit there on the fence pecking away at the cathedral wood, which badly needs repair.

The blah blah blah without qualification that Tony is going to win the election is blah blah blah.

As an active political animal of more that 50 years I have noted a striking trend, that incumbent Governments down in the poles a year out from elections improve polling position often by more than 10% by election day.

In tough times, as in the Keating era, and now, this type of swing is more pronounced. In fact Keating at his last one thought he was gone for all money and could not believe it when he got over the line.

So if some of you ratb...s want to help your side the arguments will need to be more objective. And some of the nastiness has no place on this forum, if I were joe i'd rub you's out.

 

[Calliope]

So if some of you ratb...s want to help your side the arguments will need to be more objective. And some of the nastiness has no place on this forum

Oh! The irony!

if I were joe i'd rub you's out.

I am sure that if you were Joe you would use better English,

 

[MrBurns]

At least he does have some commentary with content.

Yourself and Burns just sit there on the fence pecking away at the cathedral wood, which badly needs repair.

The blah blah blah without qualification that Tony is going to win the election is blah blah blah.

.

You seriously think there's any more to debate ?

I guess we could speculate on how long Gillard should get in jail, or how many Union thieves will be put in the slammer after the Lib insigated enquiry.

 

[Intrinsic Value]

The problem for the liberal party is that they are stuck with Abbott for the next election and that may well prove their undoing.

By any yardstick the Liberal Party should be able to romp in the next election and yet they have a leader who is very unpopular with some sections of the voting public and a leader who has been negative and adverserial on just about everything. It seems he has operated in a policy free zone for most of the time.

On top of that in many peoples mind Abbott is linked very strongly with Howard who was as we all know ousted unceremoniously back when labor won its first election.

As the election gets close I expect the polls to get much tighter.

When the electorate really starts looking closely at the alternatives and are forced to make a real decision then it might not go so well for one Tony Abbott.

 

[sptrawler]

Here we go again, Roxon straight into it bagging Tony.LOL She should talk about being sexist , one would have to look closely at her.
Great to see Wayne wants to stop the personal attacks, obviously not. lol

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/alp-advisers-story-a-gender-tactic-20130106-2cb66.html

 

[explod]

Oh! The irony!



I am sure that if you were Joe you would use better English,

My attempt to move down to your level.

Leant that AWU twang 50 years ago.

Remember Norm Gallagher well on the lines in Melb city years back, before the tellie he'd be "I'm reprer sentin der workers" in a slow drawl. and out the back of the piket line would be talking to his minders like an Oxford Scholar.

 

[Julia]

The main issue with your commentaries is that they contain nothing new and are just re-hashes of past discussions.

However if you enjoy doing this, keep it up...just stop rubbishing other posters for lack of interest.

+1.
The erstwhile poster I was trying to think of earlier was Starcraftmazter.

 

[Calliope]

I'd be willing to wager that the LNP front bench have far more to fear from the AFP this year than Gillard.

He mightn't be Gillard's front bench but he is someone dear to her heart.

FORMER federal parliamentary speaker Peter Slipper will face charges over the alleged misuse of taxpayer-funded taxi vouchers.

The Australian Federal Police today said in a statement it had served on Mr Slipper's lawyer a summons, “in relation to three offences of dishonestly causing a risk of a loss to the commonwealth.”

The Australian understands the three charges relate to the use of Cabcharge dockets, used to pay for taxi journeys.

The initial referral to investigate is understood to have come from the commonwealth Department of Finance.

“Mr Slipper MP has been summonsed to appear in the Canberra Magistrates Court on 15 February 2013,” the AFP statement says.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ng-taxi-vouchers/story-fndckad0-1226549028341