The future of Australian property prices

[noirua]

It's across the board, not just medicine. Cost of tap washer 45c, Cost of changing said tap washer $45 (if your lucky). Cost of living for everyone is much higher here.

But I agree that the system here is flawed. A lot of it does have to do with government and self imposed regulation on numbers in various specialities as well as other legislation. The people in the field are happy to keep is as is at it benefits them.

UK prices outside London: Plumbing prices for repair leaky tap
http://www.whatprice.co.uk/prices/plumbing/repair-leaky-tap.html

American faucet repair: Should You Repair a Dripping Faucet? | Wise Bread
http://www.wisebread.com/should-you-repair-a-dripping-faucet

 

[KurwaJegoMac]

Thats socialism for you mate.

It's on the nose.

Seriously though, if our public health system wasn't so full of receptionists and pay clerks on sick leave about being "bullied" it could provide better services to polyps such as yours.

Also there is a shortage of Specialists due to a closed shop attitude which only a Liberal government will be able to smash.

gg

gg

On the money as always gg.

There's a bad smell on this forum, a gentleman with some goo (in his nose?) wonder if we can get the surgeon to remove him as well?

 

[KurwaJegoMac]

There's a lot of discussion here about cost of living being very high relative to other countries - as a youngen, this is 'normal' to me in Australia (as i have not seen any different in Australia)

I'd be very interested to hear some opinions from the more wiser posters in the forum, who have lived & invested in say the 70's-90's. During those years, did you feel our standard of living was overpriced relative to other countries, or is this a relatively new phenomenon? Note this is broader than just property (although that's a factor as well of course!)

Thanks in advance for any respnses

 

[Mrmagoo]

It's across the board, not just medicine. Cost of tap washer 45c, Cost of changing said tap washer $45 (if your lucky). Cost of living for everyone is much higher here.

But I agree that the system here is flawed. A lot of it does have to do with government and self imposed regulation on numbers in various specialities as well as other legislation. The people in the field are happy to keep is as is at it benefits them.

It is because of all the idiots sending everyone to university. They don't get jobs and end up in low wage slavery. Mean while we don't have enough plumbers s the plumber is charging $45 for 15 minutes work. It hurts everyone in the long run. But no one listens to me "education is the key" they say.

Yeah, well lets see your degree build a house.

 

[moXJO]

It is because of all the idiots sending everyone to university. They don't get jobs and end up in low wage slavery. Mean while we don't have enough plumbers s the plumber is charging $45 for 15 minutes work. It hurts everyone in the long run. But no one listens to me "education is the key" they say.

Yeah, well lets see your degree build a house.

People are leaving trades in droves. Its no gravy train here. Just my cost of doing business is stupidly high and I run it as tight as possible. Plumbers generally charge $100+ hour because you can be out of work for 3 months of the year during bad times. I know a few guys that went and got their plumbers,carpenters, electricians licence and leave the industry after 1-2years because they made more money in a wage job.

 

[Mrmagoo]

People are leaving trades in droves. Its no gravy train here. Just my cost of doing business is stupidly high and I run it as tight as possible. Plumbers generally charge $100+ hour because you can be out of work for 3 months of the year during bad times. I know a few guys that went and got their plumbers,carpenters, electricians licence and leave the industry after 1-2years because they made more money in a wage job.

QLD ? Other parts of the country are different.

 

[medicowallet]

I have a nasal polyp, cost to remove in Aust thru the private system $3500 approx with the surgeons fee being $1350 for maybe 2 hours work...its simple day surgery.

Cost to have the same day surgery done in the best Hospital In Manila with one of the top surgeons in the Philippines about $1100 .. less than a third.

Pretty sad that i am being forced in a round about way to get non emergency surgery done off shore...im really quite disgusted with the attitude of the medical industry here, the surgeons receptionist made me feel quite inadequate and poor with her attitude to my poverty.

Firstly for everyone else, flyingfox is pretty much on the money with training etc.

For So_Cynical.

Why they can charge so much for ENT work is that it is EXTREMELY difficult to become an ENT surgeon, very competitive, and only some of the brightest and technically skilled surgeons in the country are suitable for this speciality.

Medicine is still very difficult to get into, surgery is very difficult to get into for those who get into medicine and ENT culls this lot much more.

This is why your ENT surgeon can charge for what they are worth, and why they are able to afford a nice house with their nice earnings for the year.


This situation will not change for a long time, however the growth of the mining boom is slowing for tradies, and hence the housing lackeys who have been overcharging since the FHVB kicked in.

I also see the ageing population as a massive positive for medical practitioners and a massive negative for the housing market

MW

PS Where is Robots?

 

[Julia]

No all of which is training he requires to practice as a Geriatrician. There are similar lengths of training required for other specialties including general practice. The pay in these training periods is nothing to write home about and you need to not only complete actual work but studies at the same time. Moreover you are never actually a qualified medical doctor unless you complete this. The "other stuff" is just as important if not more so. Finishing a uni degree is the easy part.

There are similar post qual training periods for most professions, e.g Lawyers, CPA for accountants but not necessary.

I can't speak for other people but this is not ****. I am a "doctor" (I have a PhD, I work in medical research)!!

Thanks for the clarifying info, FlyingFox. Congratulations on your remarkable capacity to remain polite to magoo despite considerable provocation to the contrary.

I have a nasal polyp, cost to remove in Aust thru the private system $3500 approx with the surgeons fee being $1350 for maybe 2 hours work...its simple day surgery.

Medicowallet has given you some reasons for this.
Why can't you have it done in the public system? You are fond of advocating the notion that our Labor government is for the good of all the people etc.

Alternatively, why do you apparently not have private health insurance?
Surely all those profits from the market you keep telling us about should be enough to insure your health?

Pretty sad that i am being forced in a round about way to get non emergency surgery done off shore...im really quite disgusted with the attitude of the medical industry here, the surgeons receptionist made me feel quite inadequate and poor with her attitude to my poverty.

Suggestion: the receptionist didn't 'make you feel' anything. You chose to feel slighted.

Also there is a shortage of Specialists due to a closed shop attitude which only a Liberal government will be able to smash.

I'm not sure that you can blame the present government for this. I have some memory of places being limited under the Howard government, in addition to the various colleges acting in their own interests by refusing to provide training for prospective specialists. Happy to be corrected on this, however.

There's a lot of discussion here about cost of living being very high relative to other countries - as a youngen, this is 'normal' to me in Australia (as i have not seen any different in Australia)

I'd be very interested to hear some opinions from the more wiser posters in the forum, who have lived & invested in say the 70's-90's. During those years, did you feel our standard of living was overpriced relative to other countries, or is this a relatively new phenomenon? Note this is broader than just property (although that's a factor as well of course!)

Thanks in advance for any respnses

KJM, I definitely think everything is tougher for young people these days than it was for in the period you mention. But at the same time, there's a self-defeating attitude amongst many that it's "all too hard".
Before I got married we both worked two jobs to save for deposit on a house.
My parents made up the small shortfall as a wedding present. We had a government loan at just 3% for the mortgage. I can't now remember what non-government interest rates were at the time.

We had second hand furniture for some time. Birthday and Xmas presents from parents were always some necessity for the house. We grew all our own fruit and vegetables.

Employment was very easy. I could leave a job one day and walk into a new one the next.

Getting a tradesman in to fix something incurred an unremarkable cost, unlike today.

We had much less 'stuff'. Somehow we managed our lives without feeling obliged to be in constant communication with others via some electronic device.

We spent more interesting time with friends because the above electronic obligations didn't absorb all our time, and I'd say were the richer for it.

Above all, and I'm only talking about New Zealand, there was a common acceptance that if you wanted to get ahead it was pretty much up to you. The government did help with promoting home ownership via cheap loans, but the general ethos was an expectation of personal responsibility and a strong work ethic.

Not sure if any of this covers what you want to know.

 

[Mrmagoo]

I'd say a cheap house at 3% interest had a lot more to do with growing wealth than "growing your own vegetables".

 

[Julia]

I'd say a cheap house at 3% interest had a lot more to do with growing wealth than "growing your own vegetables".

Magoo, do you ever make an effort to try for constructive comment?
It would appear not. You seem entirely absorbed with the need to whine about how tough life is for you and to criticise the attempts of others. Have to say I'm really tired of your attitude.

Of course a cheap loan was hugely helpful. I was simply trying to draw an overall picture for the poster asking the question as to the main features of life quite some while ago.

There was also, unlike today, only the most minimal welfare available. Now everyone seems to think their fellow taxpayers owe them something. This imo is what has led to the prevalence of whining, misery-filled people like yourself.

 

[starwars_guy456]

Off-topic - I'm pretty amazed at a number of comments on this thread regarding the internet and communications devices - the cost of maintaining these being "luxuries".

I argue for the opposing view. It's quite clear that the Australian economy is moving towards one based on information and knowledge. All cross-sections of our society need to be quite comfortable with using the internet and all the possibilities that flow from it - and for that to happen, I think that an internet connection and perhaps even a smartphone be widely used by all.

 

[Mrmagoo]

Magoo, do you ever make an effort to try for constructive comment?
It would appear not. You seem entirely absorbed with the need to whine about how tough life is for you and to criticise the attempts of others. Have to say I'm really tired of your attitude.

Of course a cheap loan was hugely helpful. I was simply trying to draw an overall picture for the poster asking the question as to the main features of life quite some while ago.

There was also, unlike today, only the most minimal welfare available. Now everyone seems to think their fellow taxpayers owe them something. This imo is what has led to the prevalence of whining, misery-filled people like yourself.

Well you asked, the answer, it was incredibly easy in the 80s and 90s. I'm not complaining. I've got it pretty good. There are thousands if not millions of others who, if things continue, will be trapped in low wage slavery with no hope of owning. At least I have a chance.

I don't expect welfare. I just said houses are far too expensive these days. You got a 3% loan on a cheap property. Just think about that before you judge others less fortunate.

 

[RandR]

UK prices outside London: Plumbing prices for repair leaky tap
http://www.whatprice.co.uk/prices/plumbing/repair-leaky-tap.html

American faucet repair: Should You Repair a Dripping Faucet? | Wise Bread
http://www.wisebread.com/should-you-repair-a-dripping-faucet

I just want to point out the the plumbing legislation allows the homeowner to change tap washers himself ... you dont need to be a licensed plumber to do so

But otherwise back to the housing whining woo waa... too expensive blaa blaa blaa ... why cant i just get one easy blaa blaa blaa .. everyone else that has one is a cheat blaa blaa blaa.

Fark me its not really that hard at all to save a little coin and put together a deposit. You dont need to be a wage slave. Im on an average wage and we've got a house, we can do that and afford to do a bit of travelling, both have decent newish cars and have all the gadgets and doo daas we want. The secret is called saving. Get into it.

House prices might not be going anywhere for a while. I couldnt care less, I own a house because i need a place to live end of story theres no goal to make money from it and even if there was it increasing in price is absolutely pointless. Because it will always have the same relative value to other properties regardless of price movements. I couldnt care less if house prices double in the next decade or drop by half i'll still own it and will still be worth the same value relative to other properties and I only need one.

 

[Bill M]

Fark me its not really that hard at all to save a little coin and put together a deposit. You dont need to be a wage slave. Im on an average wage and we've got a house, we can do that and afford to do a bit of travelling, both have decent newish cars and have all the gadgets and doo daas we want. The secret is called saving. Get into it.

House prices might not be going anywhere for a while. I couldnt care less, I own a house because i need a place to live end of story theres no goal to make money from it and even if there was it increasing in price is absolutely pointless. Because it will always have the same relative value to other properties regardless of price movements. I couldnt care less if house prices double in the next decade or drop by half i'll still own it and will still be worth the same value relative to other properties and I only need one.

Excellent post RandR and that's exactly what it's all about. When you pay it off there will be no more mortgage or rent payments to be made and that is absolute bliss. In the mean time you can do it up as you like and live without the threat of being thrown out at an inconvenient time. Cheers mate, I wish you all the best.

 

[sydboy007]

It is because of all the idiots sending everyone to university. They don't get jobs and end up in low wage slavery. Mean while we don't have enough plumbers s the plumber is charging $45 for 15 minutes work. It hurts everyone in the long run. But no one listens to me "education is the key" they say.

Yeah, well lets see your degree build a house.

I'd blame the economic rationalists for forcing Governments to privatise all the old business that used to churn out traddies. Possibly their inefficiencies were the trade off for havign a lot more trade qualified workers?

These days unless the Govt throws money at business they don't want to train up someone, they'd rather bid up wages and poach them from another company.

The resource industry is a prime example of this. Seems if you are a C level exect then being highly paid for your "skills" is OK, but when the same happens in the blue collar workforce it's a tragedy caused by the unions or labor Govt - usually both.

I do wish we could move away from uni being the idea, to something more like the Germans or Danes who value a trade just as highly. The country would be a lot better off for it.

 

[cynic]

Well you asked, the answer, it was incredibly easy in the 80s and 90s...

Sure was Magoo!

Paying up to 18.75% interest rates on a mortgage from purchase of a house at an initial cost of approx. 4.5 X annual salary - piece of cake!

Subsequently becoming unemployed during the "recession we had to have" and then having to manage the commitment after a >70% reduction in income - dead easy!

Please God, turn back the clock and bring back the good old days, the Magoos of this world have it way too tough!

 

[Bill M]

There's a lot of discussion here about cost of living being very high relative to other countries - as a youngen, this is 'normal' to me in Australia (as i have not seen any different in Australia)

I'd be very interested to hear some opinions from the more wiser posters in the forum, who have lived & invested in say the 70's-90's. During those years, did you feel our standard of living was overpriced relative to other countries, or is this a relatively new phenomenon? Note this is broader than just property (although that's a factor as well of course!)

Thanks in advance for any respnses

This is a bit off thread but seeing as it has been asked I shall answer as best as I can.

My Mother is 80 years old, back in the 60's she worked 2 jobs part time and my Dad worked full time. Mum was a cleaner and Dad worked in a factory, not glamorous jobs. They had a mortgage then too but with 3 little kids sacrifices had to be made and that meant my Mother working nights cleaning offices. My Mother always says things are better now than back then. She always cites the cost of a refrigerator. She said back then you needed to save a whole Month of full time salary to buy a fridge. Now you can buy one with a weeks normal salary.

She says, back then there was no superannuation and women were paid less than men and were not even considered for a home loan. They were looked at as a liability, by that I mean the woman would get pregnant and could no longer work and therefore could not service a loan. I was a kid at the time, everything was hard so much so that my Mother couldn't even afford the proper school uniform I was suppose to wear.

She is now an old age pensioner living off the Government pension (remember, no super back then) and she says she can survive quite well on it. To answer your question my Mother says life is better now than back then both in price and standard of life.

For me I bought my first house in 1979, all I had to do was save 10% and borrow the rest so I did it. It isn't that different now. People have to start off basic or inconvenient, by that I mean travel to work long distances. It wasn't much different in the 70's.

I will use Sydney and the Central Coast as an example as I live in the area and know it well. Right now you can still buy a 2 bedroom timber or fibro cottage on the Central Coast for around $220,000. If I had to do it all over again I would hold a decent job in Sydney and buy that 2 br cottage for $220,000 and commute each day to work. Yes it is a pain, yes it is a bit far but I would do it in order to get ahead. How hard is it to save 10% which is $22,000 in this case? Then you borrow 200k for the rest. Would that really be that hard to pay back? I don't think so. Then a few years later down the track you can sell and upgrade to something nearer to your job.

To sum it up, home ownership isn't free, you have to work for it and you have to make sacrifices. Nothing has changed that much over the years, you just need to go out a bit further to do the hard yards.

As far as international travel is concerned, it is far better, cheaper and more common these days. In 1984 I paid $1,100 return for an airfare to the USA, these days I can still get it at that price on special. When I got there the USA was cheaper for everything than what it was in OZ so nothing has changed there. Now a days schoolies are going to Bali for end of the year parties, unheard of in the past. I think life for everybody is better now than in the past, just my opinion.

 

[So_Cynical]

Medicowallet has given you some reasons for this.
Why can't you have it done in the public system? You are fond of advocating the notion that our Labor government is for the good of all the people etc.

Alternatively, why do you apparently not have private health insurance?
Surely all those profits from the market you keep telling us about should be enough to insure your health?


Suggestion: the receptionist didn't 'make you feel' anything. You chose to feel slighted.

Medicowallets reasons made some sense but i doubt any ENT surgeon is really worth 600K+ per year.

That's right i don't have private health insurance mostly because every year i pay this thing called a Medicare levy, silly me thought it was some kind of medical coverage payment, turns out it only get me free GP visits, a discount on a specialist and free cat scans...what i need is just non cosmetic, elective surgery cover, know any fund that's offering that?

--

The receptionist was a stuck up bitch...made me feel like i had wasted her time because she decided i had cover and could afford what she had in mind.

 

[Mrmagoo]

As far as international travel is concerned, it is far better, cheaper and more common these days. In 1984 I paid $1,100 return for an airfare to the USA, these days I can still get it at that price on special. When I got there the USA was cheaper for everything than what it was in OZ so nothing has changed there. Now a days schoolies are going to Bali for end of the year parties, unheard of in the past. I think life for everybody is better now than in the past, just my opinion.

Baby boomers can still travel. Gen Y can't buy houses in the 1980s.

PS. Interest rates were only very briefly 18%. If that happened today..... wow 18% on 500k.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Baby boomers can still travel. Gen Y can't buy houses in the 1980s.

PS. Interest rates were only very briefly 18%. If that happened today..... wow 18% on 500k.

Thank gawd, magoo, we are back on to property and away from SC's bloody nose.

gg