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ALP Royalty says let those on the Dole eat cake

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Julia said:
The public discussion is less than accurate with the reference to "could you live on $38 per day?" That's what a single person without children receives plus rent assistance of around $70 pw, so probably around $330 p.w.
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Amazingly, there are whole entire online communities (and even books) on frugality and living well below your means. I find the topic fascinating. There are people out there who retired before 30 (after building a capital sum) and live like this. I visit a site called Early Retirement Extreme every now and then. For an American site based on conditions over there, it is surprising that there are quite a few Australians who post there.

I think the site originitator got his budget down to $6k per annum in US dollars.

The two extremes of this debate "inhumane" vs "freedom" are very interesting.

sorry I didn't exactly add anything to the debate.
 
It might bear thought that the whole economy is somewhat reliant on the vast amounts of welfare $$$ paid to recipients that ultimately feeds its way back into thousand of local businesses (not generally spent overseas). These local businesses would likely go broke without the continued growth in spending of the swelling numbers of welfare recipients.

Growth in spending = good, right?

Folks, we are in a classic Catch-22 situation with the size of the problem getting bigger day by day.

Buggered if I know.... :confused:
 
It's worth reflecting that in different times governments chose to create a range of simple laboring jobs with an eye to creating work for the working class. Railway labourers for example.

There is also a good case for creating school assistant positions with a specific eye for single parents - mainly mothers. The work is valuable, The hours are just made for parents with children. The wages would end up being probabaly $100 -$150 a week more than single mothers pension and would address both issues elegantly.

With regard to my statement challenging old age pensions. I was connecting the dots between people who start to argue that welfare encourages dependence and use that suggestion to reduce the size and range of pension entitlements.

Lets be quite clear about the current political climate. Across Europe country after country are reducing pensions because of economic conditions. In Australia the Liberal Party is relentless in its attacks on government spending and welfare. If/when they get into power then there will certainly be huge cuts in pensions as per England, Greece . Spain, Eastern Europe ect.

If our economy starts to falter then these attacks will only intensify. Why would we expect old age pensions to be spared this assault?
 
Ves said:
Amazingly, there are whole entire online communities (and even books) on frugality and living well below your means. I find the topic fascinating. There are people out there who retired before 30 (after building a capital sum) and live like this. I visit a site called Early Retirement Extreme every now and then. For an American site based on conditions over there, it is surprising that there are quite a few Australians who post there.

I think the site originitator got his budget down to $6k per annum in US dollars.

The two extremes of this debate "inhumane" vs "freedom" are very interesting.

sorry I didn't exactly add anything to the debate.
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On the contrary, I find your post interesting and will have a look at the website you mention.
The whole topic of who spends how much and why is endlessly fascinating.

basilio said:
It's worth reflecting that in different times governments chose to create a range of simple laboring jobs with an eye to creating work for the working class. Railway labourers for example.
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Sure, but that was in the past before so much was computerised. To create 'make work' schemes these days is rarely cost effective.

There is also a good case for creating school assistant positions with a specific eye for single parents - mainly mothers. The work is valuable, The hours are just made for parents with children. The wages would end up being probabaly $100 -$150 a week more than single mothers pension and would address both issues elegantly
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Wonderful. And what exactly would these parents do that would so usefully contribute to the education of children? Having mentored in state primary and secondary schools for many years, I've found almost all of the parents of children I've worked with have been pretty much illiterate. To put any of these people in a classroom would be counter-productive at best.

With regard to my statement challenging old age pensions. I was connecting the dots between people who start to argue that welfare encourages dependence and use that suggestion to reduce the size and range of pension entitlements.
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That's an illogical response and you know it.

Lets be quite clear about the current political climate. Across Europe country after country are reducing pensions because of economic conditions.
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For god's sake, basilio, Australia does not share Europe's economic malaise.

In Australia the Liberal Party is relentless in its attacks on government spending and welfare. If/when they get into power then there will certainly be huge cuts in pensions as per England, Greece . Spain, Eastern Europe ect.
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I disagree absolutely. It would be political suicide for the Libs to cut age pensions. I'd be happy to bet you $100 that this will not happen. Are we on?
 
Julia said:
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I disagree absolutely. It would be political suicide for the Libs to cut age pensions. I'd be happy to bet you $100 that this will not happen. Are we on?
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You are on.

The Libs have always proved to be unsympathetic to pensioners and their conditions
 
Julia said:
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For god's sake, basilio, Australia does not share Europe's economic malaise.
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In today's "Bendigo Weekly" the Council here are in big trouble trying to meet pension commitments of retired employees. As in many states of the US one can see defaults coming here too.

Interestingly the US Wall Street Gurus (just before the GFC around 05/06) sold a lot of the US toxic real estate debt to pension funds in the US, but to a number of Councils in NSW.

Interesting times indeed.
 
explod said:
In today's "Bendigo Weekly" the Council here are in big trouble trying to meet pension commitments of retired employees. As in many states of the US one can see defaults coming here too.
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Oh for heaven's sake. You cannot compare private pension arrangements via a local body council, or the US situation with our Australian government age pensions.
Jeez, why do I even bother responding to this stuff!!!

Back to the original topic, apparently the public feedback about the single mothers on Newstart has been so vicious, the government is once again preparing to do another backflip.
http://www.news.com.au/money/cost-o...llard-government/story-fnagkbpv-1226547328473
 
I still think that the precedent has some relevance as the State Government under the old pension scheme, phased out about 1985, still have large commitments to ex employees, many of whom could draw down for another ten or 15 years. Not sure when the Feds moved them to private but would say the situation at that level is probably similar.

Nice to see you on your toes there Julia:)
 
Basically there are two types of ALP people.

The True Believers

The Politicians and Union Head Honchos living in mansions.

I have many friends among the former.

I detest the latter.

And the latter are in power all the way from the Lodge, through NSW ICAC and in to many Unions and Government Ministers.

The ALP no longer represents the working class.

It represents themselves.

A Dorian Gray existence.

They don't even look happy when being interviewed, a sure sign of degeneration.

gg
 
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