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ALP Royalty says let those on the Dole eat cake

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Garpal Gumnut

Garpal Gumnut

Ross Island Hotel
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The Minister for Families in an extraordinary statement yesterday said she "could" live on $35 a day.

I nearly fell off my Louis Quinze sofa when I heard it.

It couldn't be true I thought. Then I got a transcript from her office. The words " I could ", in the written transcript had become "inaudible" due to a revving car and an iphone recording.

My good friends at the Red Centre in Fairfax contacted Ms. Macklin for the recording as they are suspicious souls and have an interest in revving cars and iphones making comments inaudible.

And this was the reply

Families Minister Jenny Macklin's office is declining to hand over its press conference recording on which an incomplete transcript was based, omitting the minister's claim that she could survive on the dole.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...e-recording-20130102-2c51m.html#ixzz2GnxD933U
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If her office is pressed I imagine they will say it has been "accidentally erased, or "the dog ate it".

And this mob of spinmeisters rule the country.

Vive le Revolution at the next Election.

gg
 
Re: ALP Royalty says let those on the Dole eat Cake. Jennie Macklin

DB008 said:
LOL - Clear as day to me.
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As it was in the clip of the interview in "7.30" this evening. Absolutely she said "I could."

Adam Bandt has announced that he will spend a week on this amount some time soon. He has invited Ms Macklin to join him. So far she has not responded.

Any politician making the hollow gesture of trying to live on the dole for a single week is being disingenuous at best.
Are they taking into account e.g. the week's proportion of non-discretionary bills such as electricity, rego, insurances, school fees etc? Given that amount will barely cover rent alone, how they are supposed to pay for the above plus such stuff as medical/prescription expenses, clothing is beyond my imagination.

And for anyone fondly thinking the Coalition would do anything different, consider the fact that a Coalition-dominated committee this year charged with looking into the adequacy of the dole concluded that it was not adequate. The Coalition, however, despite this conclusion announced they would make no changes to the government's policy.
Whacko, what a bunch of heroes all round.:(
 
Re: ALP Royalty says let those on the Dole eat Cake. Jennie Macklin

Julia said:
Adam Bandt has announced that he will spend a week on this amount some time soon. He has invited Ms Macklin to join him. So far she has not responded.

Any politician making the hollow gesture of trying to live on the dole for a single week is being disingenuous at best.(
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I hope she does take him up on it despite it only being a week. Similar challenges have been accepted in the US with food stamps. I agree with you though that if they really wanted to understand the grinding problems, try it month after month or year after year as a parent with children.

The Philadelphia Tribune said:
Congressman Bob Brady and Mayor Michael Nutter joined state Representative Tony Payton Jr., Senator Vincent Hughes and other elected officials at the Parkside ShopRite on 52nd Street near Parkside Avenue in West Philadelphia to bring attention to the plight of SNAP recipients and to implore leaders in Harrisburg and Washington, D.C., to repeal the asset test.
“This is a bit redundant, because we only have to do this for a week,” Brady said, “but there are families who have to do this for much longer than a week. There is also the nutrition factor, with our kids getting sick,” by not eating properly due to SNAP cuts already in place. “I want to demonstrate just how hard it is for struggling families to feed their families day after day. I know that $5 a day isn’t enough for three square meals. I don’t think $35 will be enough for a week’s worth of meals that are healthy, nutritious and not just filling.
“I’d like to take this to Washington, to have some of my fellow colleagues take this test.”
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Christian Post said:
Booker decided to participate in the food stamp challenge after a Twitter follower, a North Carolina woman, asked whether schools should be responsible for students' nutritional needs. The mayor responded, saying the responsibility is a shared one: "Let's you and I try to live on food stamps in New Jersey (high cost of living) and feed a family for a week or month. U game?"

Booker told CNN he resolved to spend a week eating only what he could afford on credits from the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program after an online conversation "with a woman who was pooh-poohing government's role in providing nutrition for kids" went viral.
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Being fortunate enough to be born in a country that has a social security system, I have benefited twice in my life from said system i.e. as a child in a family on long term disability pension, and as a university student. As a child, I never quite fully comprehended the sacrifices that my parents made for their children to make sure they were adequately fed and housed. They found some very creative solutions to those problems which sometimes you are just plain lucky about, or are lucky enough to rely on the generousity of others. Despite our circumstance, I was always aware enough, even from a young age, that we were living in the lucky country as similar circumstances in many other countries would not be the same.

In a sense Jenny Macklin is right. She could do it. But that isn't really the point, and as you indicate, not really helpful or heroic unless they use that experience to support change. I'd be more than happy to watch a bunch of politicians blustering about either how they could or couldn't do it for a week because I'm sure at least some of them would come through the experience at least thinking twice next time they make a decision relating to the topic.
 
I remember that Tolstoy would sleep with the peasants to experience their harsh lives.
But Lord Tolstoy always had the big house on the hill to go home to.
 
Having been on the Bob Hawke surf team many years ago (1986) suffering long days surfing up and down the Margaret River region, start times were terrible paddling out at sun rise every day, growing a beard and long hair to fit in, having to drop off the forms, looking every bit desperate for a job (not) I can understand the terrible struggle.

Best and healthiest time of my life still not for every one I guess, fact is everyone could if they had to live off the dole few would chose to.
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
Ma Gillard will dole it out, anything to get re-elected.

This is not the worst government since Whitlam.

It is the worst ever and makes Whitlam look good.

gg
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I was about to say just that, she'll buy her way back in with money we havent got, she's despicable.
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
Ma Gillard will dole it out, anything to get re-elected.

This is not the worst government since Whitlam.

It is the worst ever and makes Whitlam look good.

gg
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Am I in a parallel universe with parrots? It was cut not raised. And I gather you approve the policy.
 
Knobby22 said:
So you are all in favour of increasing it???
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Knobby22 said:
Am I in a parallel universe with parrots? It was cut not raised. And I gather you approve the policy.
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:D:D:D
I understand your confusion, Knobby.:D

In answer to your question above, a week ago I'd have definitely said it should be increased. But hearing so many callers to the radio discussion about whether it was possible to live on it or not say that - although it was hard - they were all except one managing to do it.

People made the common remark that there was no money to go out for meals, to the pub, to movies etc, but if they budgeted carefully they could pay rent and utilities and still eat etc.

Hearing this reminded me of the period of a few years when I left my marriage, had to start over with no assets at all, borrowed money for first payment to get into rented flat, and while I was saving for the deposit on a home I didn't have any of those things either. My social life suffered in that I couldn't join in with friends going to restaurant etc, but reaching the goal was more important.

So I think I'm rather changing my mind on this issue and support the government's point that life on the dole should not be so comfortable that the drive to find a job is not there. Still a bit ambivalent, though.

What's your view, Knobby?
 
There are definitely families abusing it. My mum lived opposite a family that threw out their furniture reguarly to get a new lot from some charity and the kids had no hope. Also, if it encourages them to work then that can only be good.

I worry about those mums who really are pretty hopeless and will really suffer and become prey to unscrupolous people.

The real worry is that no one is keeping figures. How many people will be forced onto the streets etc.

So I suppose you could say I am conflicted and don't feel able to judge it.

The people you heard on the radio, they were able to cope with the present scheme but the new one involves a substantial cut. What did they say to that?
 
Knobby22 said:
There are definitely families abusing it. My mum lived opposite a family that threw out their furniture reguarly to get a new lot from some charity and the kids had no hope. Also, if it encourages them to work then that can only be good.

I worry about those mums who really are pretty hopeless and will really suffer and become prey to unscrupolous people.

The real worry is that no one is keeping figures. How many people will be forced onto the streets etc.

So I suppose you could say I am conflicted and don't feel able to judge it.

The people you heard on the radio, they were able to cope with the present scheme but the new one involves a substantial cut. What did they say to that?
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Knobby, I don't think there is any satisfactory solution to the problem of looking after single parent families and balancing the dole against incentive to enter the work force.

We know from experience that throwing more money at a problem does not make it go away. We have spent billions on Aboriginal welfare, health, education and housing and yet the expectations of children born into aboriginal families is very low.

The same applies to the half million children now living in a single parent environment.

I am afraid both issues will remain in the too-hard basket.:headshake
 
Calliope said:
We know from experience that throwing more money at a problem does not make it go away. We have spent billions on Aboriginal welfare, health, education and housing and yet the expectations of children born into aboriginal families is very low.
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All welfare can create a cycle of dependency. Unfortunately, like you said, there's no easy answer. Kids grow up in households where no one works and that becomes "normal". They don't go to school because the parents just don't care. I remember wagging once, my parents found out they grounded me for God's knows how long and told my housemaster at school who gave me 12 hours weekend detention. Lesson learnt!

There was a Four Corners doco a few months ago about kids who grow up in those sort of conditions, very sad indeed to see a 10-12 year old kid who has already given up on life.

On a larger scale you can see the same thing has happened to much of Africa, it's dependent on welfare.
 
McLovin said:
All welfare can create a cycle of dependency. ...

On a larger scale you can see the same thing has happened to much of Africa, it's dependent on welfare.
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Bit sweeping mate and as far as Africa goes I just can't believe there are any/many countries there with the welfare systems we take for granted.

Should we abolish/ cut back old age pensions? After all they create dependency ? How do we decide what to cut from our welfare system ?

However I can definately see the point about people becoming dependent and then abusing the system. I think I would be inclined to create some meaningful and worthwhile work for people on benefits and make sure they do it. There is a lot to said for the discipline of having to turn up for work, the companionship of good work places and the satisfaction of achieving something worthwhile.

The sit down money mentality has created a disastrous group of people (IMO).
 
basilio said:
Bit sweeping mate and as far as Africa goes I just can't believe there are any/many countries there with the welfare systems we take for granted.
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What was sweeping about it? I said, all welfare can create dependency, is that not true? The point being that it's a difficult line to tread because there are those in genuine need and those who abuse the system.

Re Africa, it's Western aid that they have gotten used to. With all that money that has been poured into it over the last 30 years, it has gone backwards. There are entire countries on that continent that are built around the provision of foreign aid. Tin pot dictators see no need to develop those countries, they just steal the countries wealth while Bono and Bob Geldof make sure everyone is getting their bowl of rice.

If you're interested, this book is a pretty illuminating read.

http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Aid-Working-Better-Africa/dp/0374532125
 
Knobby22 said:
The people you heard on the radio, they were able to cope with the present scheme but the new one involves a substantial cut. What did they say to that?
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Sorry. I should have been more clear. The people I was referring to were those who were already living on the dole (Newstart) which is what the single mothers will be on from 1 January.

The public discussion is less than accurate with the reference to "could you live on $38 per day?" That's what a single person without children receives plus rent assistance of around $70 pw, so probably around $330 p.w.

The single mother will receive additional payment for each child. I have no idea how much this is. What I don't know is whether they still receive the concessions they had on the parenting pension, eg cheap prescriptions, rego etc. Anyway, what they receive will actually be more than is currently being bandied about.


basilio said:
Bit sweeping mate and as far as Africa goes I just can't believe there are any/many countries there with the welfare systems we take for granted.
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That doesn't seem like a very fair response to what McLovin said.

Should we abolish/ cut back old age pensions? After all they create dependency ?
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That's just being silly, basilio, and you know it. Comparing giving welfare to a young healthy person quite capable of earning their own living with someone who has made their contribution for many years and who is likely in questionable health, frail, with diminished cognitive function etc. is unreasonable and emotive.

However I can definately see the point about people becoming dependent and then abusing the system. I think I would be inclined to create some meaningful and worthwhile work for people on benefits and make sure they do it. There is a lot to said for the discipline of having to turn up for work, the companionship of good work places and the satisfaction of achieving something worthwhile.

The sit down money mentality has created a disastrous group of people (IMO).
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Agree on this. I think one of the reasons why this doesn't happen is that it's not actually cost effective from the government's point of view. The schemes cost a lot to put in place, and administer. Imo, however, it's a cost that should be accepted for the long term advantage to those participating.
 
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