Australians are mentally depressed

[young-gun]

Re: Australians are mentally depressed.

Hmmm... from a young gun still very wet behind the ears and reasonably brainwashed by our education system.

Some of us actually think for ourselves...

Then I look forward to you demonstrating such an act for yourself, given all you have done is rattled off newspaper headlines so far.

 

[Smurf1976]

Politically, the main difference I see between the two parties relates to honesty.

Liberal said they would do something unpopular at the time (GST) and went to an election with that as their single most significant policy. They did as promised, and introduced a GST after the election.

Labor said they would NOT do something unpopular at the time (carbon tax) and went to an election with that as a key policy. Then they went ahead and did it anyway almost immediately after being elected.

It comes down to honesty. We all know that politicians aren't known for outstanding honesty, but in Labor's case the breach of trust is clearly in the "intentionally misleading" category with this one. If it were any product or service other than a government, the ACCC would be called in to investigate and would be handing out fines quick smart since the supplier has clearly mislead consumers about the service they would receive.

The service as supplied to the people, clearly does not match the description provided at the time of making that decision, the discrepancies becoming apparent almost immediately after the election. If it were a phone, car or even a house you'd be entitled to a refund.

As I see it, the real point is that the people feel they have been conned by Labor. A key policy was clearly stated, then reversed as soon as the election was over. That's dishonesty no matter how you look at it, and people don't like being duped. For this reason, they are unlikely to trust those responsible for quite some time.

It's similar to the situation faced by anyone in any relationship. Do something that is unpopular but with clearly stated reasons and in an open manner and people may well accept it. Deny that you are going to do it, then do it anyway, and you'll find yourself hugely disliked not due to the action itself but because you lied about the fact you were doing it. That goes for everything from personal relationships to workplaces. People simply don't like being lied to or intentionally mislead no matter what the policy or underlying reasons may be.

 

[moXJO]

You know we did go through an asian financial crisis while howard was in.
If you think that the major parties are the same and the small differences don't matter, better check again. Just differences on IR alone can swing this country from productive to loserville. Those that are employed might think they are the same. But those that have their own business tend to see the difference and future problems that are setting up. I highly doubt NBN would have got up under libs either. Small differences can mean a hell of a lot and lead to bigger picture results

 

[waza1960]

Ok firstly a disclaimer I really detest Labor & Unions and everything they stand for....

But surely the Carbon Tax fiasco was more of Gillard compromising Labor Values to appease the Greens to
grab power rather than dishonesty .If Labor obtained a majority would they still have brought in the Carbon Tax?

Probably semantics but thats my view

 

[Julia]

Politically, the main difference I see between the two parties relates to honesty.

Liberal said they would do something unpopular at the time (GST) and went to an election with that as their single most significant policy. They did as promised, and introduced a GST after the election.

Labor said they would NOT do something unpopular at the time (carbon tax) and went to an election with that as a key policy. Then they went ahead and did it anyway almost immediately after being elected.

It comes down to honesty. We all know that politicians aren't known for outstanding honesty, but in Labor's case the breach of trust is clearly in the "intentionally misleading" category with this one. If it were any product or service other than a government, the ACCC would be called in to investigate and would be handing out fines quick smart since the supplier has clearly mislead consumers about the service they would receive.

The service as supplied to the people, clearly does not match the description provided at the time of making that decision, the discrepancies becoming apparent almost immediately after the election. If it were a phone, car or even a house you'd be entitled to a refund.

As I see it, the real point is that the people feel they have been conned by Labor. A key policy was clearly stated, then reversed as soon as the election was over. That's dishonesty no matter how you look at it, and people don't like being duped. For this reason, they are unlikely to trust those responsible for quite some time.

It's similar to the situation faced by anyone in any relationship. Do something that is unpopular but with clearly stated reasons and in an open manner and people may well accept it. Deny that you are going to do it, then do it anyway, and you'll find yourself hugely disliked not due to the action itself but because you lied about the fact you were doing it. That goes for everything from personal relationships to workplaces. People simply don't like being lied to or intentionally mislead no matter what the policy or underlying reasons may be.

+1. And as a result the loss of confidence by both business and individuals, especially in the face of so many stuff ups by the government and their internal wrangling.

You know we did go through an asian financial crisis while howard was in.
If you think that the major parties are the same and the small differences don't matter, better check again. Just differences on IR alone can swing this country from productive to loserville. Those that are employed might think they are the same. But those that have their own business tend to see the difference and future problems that are setting up. I highly doubt NBN would have got up under libs either. Small differences can mean a hell of a lot and lead to bigger picture results

+1.

 

[sails]

Ok firstly a disclaimer I really detest Labor & Unions and everything they stand for....

But surely the Carbon Tax fiasco was more of Gillard compromising Labor Values to appease the Greens to
grab power rather than dishonesty .If Labor obtained a majority would they still have brought in the Carbon Tax?

Probably semantics but thats my view

I think the greens are just a useful excuse.

It seems that Gillard herself had every intention of pricing carbon despite her massively broadcasted promises of "no carbon tax" on national TV just days before the election. This is what she said on the eve of the 2010 election:

In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price, provided the community was ready for this step.

And carbon tax and carbon price mean pretty much the same thing. It seems Gillard did not mean a word she said in her infamous "no carbon tax" promise.

Julia Gillard's carbon price promise

 

[explod]

Labor said they would NOT do something unpopular at the time (carbon tax) and went to an election with that as a key policy. Then they went ahead and did it anyway almost immediately after being elected.

"If re-elected" but they were not.

To form Government they had to compromise with others, some of whom demanded a carbon tax.

Many of you need to get over this little misnomer for clearer debate.

 

[sails]

"If re-elected" but they were not.

To form Government they had to compromise with others, some of whom demanded a carbon tax.

Many of you need to get over this little misnomer for clearer debate.

Explod - see my post before yours. Gillard made it clear on the EVE of the 2010 election that she would price carbon if she got in. She didn't mention Greens. And clearly her repeated TV ads promising no carbon tax of the previous few days meant nothing.

 

[Smurf1976]

"If re-elected" but they were not.

To form Government they had to compromise with others, some of whom demanded a carbon tax.

Technically that is correct. However my life experience to date tells me that the situation was not handled well.

Rule number 1 if forced into a position you do not support is not to "fake" your support for what is going on. It's a mistake that lower level managers commonly make, presenting the policies of senior management as their own and thus suffering the ire of workers on account of a situation they really have no control over.

If you do not support a policy then say so. The only reason to lie is if either you are trying to impress those above or if "selling" the policy is part of what you have been directed to do. But if "selling" (polite term for "telling lies") it was part of the deal with the Greens then it's hard for Labor to claim any degree of credibility. It's one thing to negotiate and accept compromises but it's another thing entirely to end up claiming "credit" for something you were forced into despite promising to oppose.

 

[Eager]

Re: Australians are mentally depressed.

If your heart is a bit iffy at the age of 100 then all things considered you haven't done too badly. It's a very different story however if you're having issues at the age of 25.

If the car is hard to start and has a few rattles after 350,000 km then you'd expect that. But if it was doing that after 10,000 km then you'd be straight back to the dealer demanding it be fixed.

Now, Australia has just experienced a massive commodity boom in terms of both price and volume. We have also had good rains on the farms and an incredibly long period of general economic growth. To have increasing debts amidst this backdrop is akin to the new car that won't start or the 25 year old with heart problems.

In fact, what is happening is that The People have been saving harder than ever, to the detriment of the economy. I know you are talking about gov't debt but there are also many experts out there demanding that the gov't borrow even more to fund vital infrastructure. As a nation we're getting left behind.

It's not a good sign to be having troubles, with anything, at a point where underlying conditions are the best they have been for decades and will most likely deteriorate going forward. We ought to have cash in the bank right now, not a growing pile of debt.

What happens if coal and iron ore prices fall in a heap and there's a drought? That's a credible scenario and we would seem to be pretty much stuffed if it happens.

if there was a drought, perhaps YPS could be running at 1480MW instead of 653....

....if Yasi never happened, or the Qld floods, etc etc etc....

*sigh* There will always be an unknown factor that will determine our future. If the scared little people of this country just got on with their jobs and stopped fretting, maybe the virtues of the "Underlying conditions are the best they have been for decades" would actually result in the confidence to grow this country. But instead, the naysayers hold court.

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: Australians are mentally depressed.

I know you are talking about gov't debt but there are also many experts out there demanding that the gov't borrow even more to fund vital infrastructure. As a nation we're getting left behind.

Borrowing for infrastructure of lasting value I'm fine with. Borrowing to fund ongoing consumption of no lasting value is another matter however.

 

[drsmith]

"If re-elected" but they were not.

To form Government they had to compromise with others, some of whom demanded a carbon tax.

Many of you need to get over this little misnomer for clearer debate.

If Labor were not satisfied with minority government, they should have gone back to the people. Politicians are elected to represent the people, not each other.

Labor always wanted to do it but was trying to be slippery with the electorate. The Greens and independents were just an excuse. In going about a carbon price the way Labor has, they have trashed our democracy and diminished the value of government well beyond what is required for a leading economy.

While there will always be lies and fiddles around the edges, but any government should always remember the principal of no taxation without representation. Labor has not and the electorate will inflict a high price on them in response.

 

[Glen48]

The Hover dam was suppose to be a game change and save USA however it has turned out to be one big Dud.
It sucked people into investing in land and farmer's moving to Nevada all over the government propaganda pushing cheap plentiful water.
Now the Mead dam is at 50% and looks like running out of water so the feds are now digging under the lake trying to find more water as the dam was a dud the feds have decided to do it all over again, so infrastructure needs to be well thought out before it is Oked.
The Snowy river scheme is the OZ version of Hover.

 

[drsmith]

The Hover dam was suppose to be a game change and save USA however it has turned out to be one big Dud.
It sucked people into investing in land and farmer's moving to Nevada all over the government propaganda pushing cheap plentiful water.
Now the Mead dam is at 50% and looks like running out of water so the feds are now digging under the lake trying to find more water as the dam was a dud the feds have decided to do it all over again, so infrastructure needs to be well thought out before it is Oked.
The Snowy river scheme is the OZ version of Hover.

Have you started rolling your own ?

If so, what are you putting in them ?

 

[Smurf1976]

Now the Mead dam is at 50% and looks like running out of water so the feds are now digging under the lake trying to find more water

A quick Google search finds that they are using a mole (tunnel boring machine) and installing a new intake below the level of the present intakes.

Reason for doing that would be to lower the normal minimum operating level (NMOL) of the lake to below the present. In practical terms, this means that additional water can be taken out of the lake if it reaches the normal "empty" level.

By way of explanation, in a hydro-electric scheme NMOL is generally significantly above the point where the lake itself would literally be empty. Aside from the engineering difficulties of doing so, you don't have an intake right at the bottom feeding a power station simply because of the difficulty of maintaining the trash racks (without which you'll end up with all the crap that sinks to the bottom going through the turbines which really isn't good) and potential issues with siltation. Non-hydro water supply dams often have intakes right near the bottom however, and in a hydro dam where maintaining water release is a priority it makes sense to have a second intake at the bottom (which seems to be what they are building).

PS This is a somewhat weird thread in my opinion. Mental depression - politics - floods and now dams and a drought.

 

[Glen48]

About 2006/7 I read about how well of Australia was and how the burbs had never been so rich and now a few yrs on depressed and I guess finding out we are in a depression and how money has been wasted by the Fed's world wide such as above, we are getting depressed.

 

[Happy]

What worries me most is that a lot of people vote with no bigger picture at heart.

Politicians know that and have make promisees that even if can be delivered, rely more and more on selling assets.
Not to mention on taking up debt that will take more GDP to serve just the interest.

Even if there is somebody who could lead us to real prosperity, will never be elected, because masses that are allowed to vote will not give their vote to anybody who doesn’t promise enough for them.

Yes it is depressing.

It is collapse of democracy that is in my eyes inevitable, with only speed of getting there changing a little bit depending on who leads the show.

 

[dutchie]

This (Australians are mentally depressed) is why our performance at the Olympics was not up to its normal standard.

Worrying about Australia's present state and future has taken the edge off our Olympians.

 

[sptrawler]

This (Australians are mentally depressed) is why our performance at the Olympics was not up to its normal standard.

Worrying about Australia's present state and future has taken the edge off our Olympians.

I found it interesting an athlete blaming others negativity, for their performance.
Just shows how the governments constant blame of Abbott, for their failure, is being adopted as an excuse nationally.
The governments constant disregard of the electorates frustration, is depressing everyone.:1zhelp:

 

[prawn_86]

The governments constant disregard of the electorates frustration, is depressing everyone.:1zhelp:

Not me, i couldn't give a toss what the government does because they are all as useless as each other so i'll just focus on what i can control such as my work and businesses.

If people and media stopped giving the government so much attention they would realise they are there to do a job, instead of being quasi 'famous' media tarts