That just about sums it up. However we have to Industrial Relation Commissioners to enforce the rules. Just like police who prevent speeding.
Just note where some of the Union leaders in politics come from.
joea
Importing Migrant Workers
- Thread starter dutchie
- Start date
That just about sums it up. However we have to Industrial Relation Commissioners to enforce the rules. Just like police who prevent speeding.
Just note where some of the Union leaders in politics come from.
joea
Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
- Joined
- 2 January 2006
- Posts
- 13,804
- Reactions
- 10,588
I would have preferred if some attempt had been made to relocate workers recently laid off in Victoria and South Australia in to these jobs in WA.
This is what a government should do instead of throwing money at welfare.
People want jobs, not handouts.
When the government is in the job of importing workers against union members wishes it will end in tears.
gg
This is what a government should do instead of throwing money at welfare.
People want jobs, not handouts.
When the government is in the job of importing workers against union members wishes it will end in tears.
gg
Instead of Paul Howes spitting the dummy, why doesn't get off his soap box and find out why we are impoting Migrant Workers.
As a union leader, one would have thought he would do some homework first and come up with an answer to tell Gillard how many skilled workers he can find to work in the West.
Trying to find training in this country to up skill (blue collar) is ridiculous I tried ringing the new trades centre a while back to get details and simply received a message that no one was there. I called over and over with no one answering. On a separate occasion called a tafe to find out about plumbers training options and was told you can't do it unless you are an apprentice except in special cases like the refugee that was doing the course. So it became more and more of a headache and I scrapped the idea of up skilling members of the crew in those areas. Training people needs to be looked at as you get five different answers from various departments.
I know plenty of people trying to get in the mines and can't find a job. Agree that unions are needed as well.
Of those workers who lost their jobs recently in Vic and SA, has any of the unions or government bureaucrats set up a survey to find out :-
a) how many would be prepared to relocate to the Pilburra.
b) how many unskilled workers are over 40.
c) how many of those sacked workers who are in an advanced age of life would be prepared to take courses in plumbing, electrical, boiler makers, fitters and turners, maintainance fitters, diesal mechanics.
To obtain the skills that are being sort would take 3 or 4 years. Can Rhienhartt wait that long? She, like other mining companies are struggling to find these skilled workers. So the unions should not complain without doing some research first.
The other thing that bugs me about the unions is when a company is doing well with good profits the unions scream blue murder "we are entitled to some of those profits as the minerals in the ground belong to us".
How often do you hear the unions say when a company is struggling and ready to go out the back door, "we the unions will help you by getting our members to work an extra 8 hours a week or take a reduced wage". Not on your bloody life. So will sombody tell the unions to stop whinging.
I'm sure unionists have at some workplaces taken pay cuts or reduced hours or overtime reductions in order to help out in slack times. It would help if executives and middle management set an example by taking pay cuts in the first place. I'm sure this has happened on occasions as well.
Glen48
Money can't buy Poverty
- Joined
- 4 September 2008
- Posts
- 2,444
- Reactions
- 3
If China and India are tanking and stock piling ore who is going to buy Gina's ore?.
I am sure with a bit of help any one can be trained do the basic job in a mine in a short time even welding or working as a TA with a tradie as an apprentice.
There are no road trains on mine sites other than fuel tankers, road trains in OZ transport cattle.
I am sure with a bit of help any one can be trained do the basic job in a mine in a short time even welding or working as a TA with a tradie as an apprentice.
There are no road trains on mine sites other than fuel tankers, road trains in OZ transport cattle.
- Joined
- 8 June 2008
- Posts
- 13,269
- Reactions
- 19,597
I am in It so I know competition: I am supposed to be competitive against indian companies paying no tax (5 to ten y tax free on creation) and in places where 50k$ a year job allows you a driver and housemaid, but I am here and have to pay $100 an hour for a plumber.
be competitive yeahh right..
I would like people to realise that currently, mining jobs are decreasing, if you were even trying to find the facts, you will discover that there are plenty of hopeful who are getting mining tickets and training as we speak for no result;
There is no job boom in mining anymore; as for the 6 figures salaries, they are for people with 15y experience who do not need training and can be poached from the next door mine, but if you prefer to believe JG and Swan, or Gina ; and Thomson is a saint..
Incredible
You say you are sure!!!!!! Yeah,yeah!!!! Please give me a link dear rumpole. Please give me a link for I am all ears.
If you have ever been an exective or middle managment you would understand how many of these people work a lot more than 36 hours per week. Many are paid on results and not by the hour. From one who knows ONLY TOO WELL.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/pay-cuts-unpaid-leave-ease-bottom-lines-20090715-dljl.html
I'm sure you could find more if you tried
http://www.smh.com.au/national/pay-cuts-unpaid-leave-ease-bottom-lines-20090715-dljl.html
I'm sure you could find more if you tried
rumpole, that was a private arrangement between emlpoyer and employee and nothing to do with the unions.
Were those employees members of a union? I doubt it.
Please show me where the unions had insitgated any such arrangement.
- Joined
- 14 February 2005
- Posts
- 15,359
- Reactions
- 17,712
Advertise in all major newspapers offering apprenticeships (where required) or other required training and I'd be highly surprised if the mining companies didn't get absolutely flooded with applicants.
There are enough recent ex manufacturing or timber industry workers in Tasmania alone who could do those jobs. Obviously not all of them would want to move to WA, but no doubt some of them would. Now look at the other 98% of the country's population and I'm sure they'd be able to find 1700 pretty easily.
I am not against mining but this is getting beyond a joke. Mostly foreign equipment is being used, even right down to things like steelwork (meanwhile the two local steel works we have, in SA and especially the one in NSW that has already cut staff etc, are struggling to stay in business). Now they even want to use foreign workers as well.
What benefits, exactly, is Australia getting out of this game? The impact on the AUD is killing off entire industries across the country which is an obvious loss. But if they're going to import workers for the mines then what, exactly, is the upside?
It's not like the 1950's when we imported huge numbers of workers to help build infrastructure (especially the Snowy and Tasmanian hydro systems). That provided a lasting benefit - there's no reason why the turbines at Tumut (NSW) and Tungatinah (Tas) shouldn't still be churning out electricity a century from now - long after the mining boom will have been forgotten.
In contrast, mining as it operates today seems to be of real benefit to very, very few Australians once all the costs of lost jobs elsewhere are considered. And that's without even mentioning the environmental impact it must surely be having....
There are enough recent ex manufacturing or timber industry workers in Tasmania alone who could do those jobs. Obviously not all of them would want to move to WA, but no doubt some of them would. Now look at the other 98% of the country's population and I'm sure they'd be able to find 1700 pretty easily.
I am not against mining but this is getting beyond a joke. Mostly foreign equipment is being used, even right down to things like steelwork (meanwhile the two local steel works we have, in SA and especially the one in NSW that has already cut staff etc, are struggling to stay in business). Now they even want to use foreign workers as well.
What benefits, exactly, is Australia getting out of this game? The impact on the AUD is killing off entire industries across the country which is an obvious loss. But if they're going to import workers for the mines then what, exactly, is the upside?
It's not like the 1950's when we imported huge numbers of workers to help build infrastructure (especially the Snowy and Tasmanian hydro systems). That provided a lasting benefit - there's no reason why the turbines at Tumut (NSW) and Tungatinah (Tas) shouldn't still be churning out electricity a century from now - long after the mining boom will have been forgotten.
In contrast, mining as it operates today seems to be of real benefit to very, very few Australians once all the costs of lost jobs elsewhere are considered. And that's without even mentioning the environmental impact it must surely be having....
Assumption without evidence
Another assumption without evidence
I doubt if unions are going to INSTIGATE pay cuts for their members, but responsible ones would negotiate, and if it was a matter of pay cuts versus sackings then they should communicate that fact to their members and let them decide.
Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
- Joined
- 2 January 2006
- Posts
- 13,804
- Reactions
- 10,588
Of those workers who lost their jobs recently in Vic and SA, has any of the unions or government bureaucrats set up a survey to find out :-
a) how many would be prepared to relocate to the Pilburra.
b) how many unskilled workers are over 40.
c) how many of those sacked workers who are in an advanced age of life would be prepared to take courses in plumbing, electrical, boiler makers, fitters and turners, maintainance fitters, diesal mechanics.
To obtain the skills that are being sort would take 3 or 4 years. Can Rhienhartt wait that long? She, like other mining companies are struggling to find these skilled workers. So the unions should not complain without doing some research first.
The other thing that bugs me about the unions is when a company is doing well with good profits the unions scream blue murder "we are entitled to some of those profits as the minerals in the ground belong to us".
How often do you hear the unions say when a company is struggling and ready to go out the back door, "we the unions will help you by getting our members to work an extra 8 hours a week or take a reduced wage". Not on your bloody life. So will sombody tell the unions to stop whinging.
Well said noco.
Instead of Gillard and the unions importing workers from overseas, they should see how many of the laid off workers could be reskilled and employed in WA and Queensland.
gg
- Joined
- 21 May 2008
- Posts
- 664
- Reactions
- 14
I can't recall any - but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. But I'm not confident of it having happened, particularly after my experience with unions in A&NZ. I recall the 1990 SPC deal, which the unions opposed & a compromise was reached after going to the Industrial Relations Tribunal. But it was company instigated because the banks wouldn't lend any more money.
numbercruncher
Beware of Dropbears
- Joined
- 12 October 2006
- Posts
- 3,136
- Reactions
- 1
Re: Gillard prefers foreigners to Australian workers
So you pay them 1/3rd the going rate so they can catch houses at 1/3rd last sales prices - sounds close to fair value actually ....
So you pay them 1/3rd the going rate so they can catch houses at 1/3rd last sales prices - sounds close to fair value actually ....
- Joined
- 14 February 2005
- Posts
- 15,359
- Reactions
- 17,712
One thing I know for sure is that the perception of a mining boom (whether true or not) in WA is putting huge pressure on employers in other states.
For anyone who employes tradesmen, the story is the same. The boss hears the stories of huge pay on offer "in the mines" and the workers are quick to repeat it word for word. The end result is that it has substantially tipped the balance toward higher pay (but not necessarily better conditions) even at the other end of the country. This whole "mining boom" thing is costing business a fortune.
One big problem is that workers don't see the downsides. FIFO you end up spending half of your time either working or otherwise "at work" and with that comes big money. But do the same hours and similar work for any non-mining employer on an hourly rate and you'll make just as much money if not more and you still get to go home at night. The trouble is that most don't see it that way and that's where the trouble arises for business.
All this talk of a mining boom and skills shortages isn't helping anyone really. It's not helping workers who go to WA with false hopes. It's not helping the workers generally when it opens the door to all these foreign workers at at time of increasing unemployment in many areas. It's not helping business in other states who end up paying higher wages in order to compete with perceived "easy money" on offer in WA.
For anyone who employes tradesmen, the story is the same. The boss hears the stories of huge pay on offer "in the mines" and the workers are quick to repeat it word for word. The end result is that it has substantially tipped the balance toward higher pay (but not necessarily better conditions) even at the other end of the country. This whole "mining boom" thing is costing business a fortune.
One big problem is that workers don't see the downsides. FIFO you end up spending half of your time either working or otherwise "at work" and with that comes big money. But do the same hours and similar work for any non-mining employer on an hourly rate and you'll make just as much money if not more and you still get to go home at night. The trouble is that most don't see it that way and that's where the trouble arises for business.
All this talk of a mining boom and skills shortages isn't helping anyone really. It's not helping workers who go to WA with false hopes. It's not helping the workers generally when it opens the door to all these foreign workers at at time of increasing unemployment in many areas. It's not helping business in other states who end up paying higher wages in order to compete with perceived "easy money" on offer in WA.
Julia
In Memoriam
- Joined
- 10 May 2005
- Posts
- 16,986
- Reactions
- 1,973
What evidence is there that those laid off in Victoria and SA would be prepared to relocate?
Sounds ideal, of course, but the reality is often quite different.
I haven't noticed too many rejecting handouts.
Really? I look forward to your links to demonstrate this.
numbercruncher
Beware of Dropbears
- Joined
- 12 October 2006
- Posts
- 3,136
- Reactions
- 1
Nope millions of them every week ....
http://www.pm.gov.au/press-office/extra-cash-pensioners
If we give away jobs by the thousands to temporary foreign workers we wont be able to afford pensioners any longer .....
- Joined
- 17 February 2010
- Posts
- 629
- Reactions
- 0
Lets just hope they can maintain safety levels of union jobs and not kill to many workers.
That's what frightens me.
That's what frightens me.
- Joined
- 3 July 2009
- Posts
- 27,785
- Reactions
- 24,771
The whole skills shortage is a scam to get imported workers in and put a lid on wages. If Liberal was in and came up with this crap, Labor and the unions would bring the country to a standstill.IMO
This is probably the biggest threat to our kids future and only labor could get away with it. Also probably will do as a parting gesture before being flung out of office.
This is probably the biggest threat to our kids future and only labor could get away with it. Also probably will do as a parting gesture before being flung out of office.
