The monetary system only works if people don't understand it

[Tyler Durden]

I was talking to my friend about money not being backed by gold, money being debt, and fractional reserve banking. He made an interesting comment, and said "the monetary system only works if people don't understand it".

What do you think?

 

[rumpole]

I was talking to my friend about money not being backed by gold, money being debt, and fractional reserve banking. He made an interesting comment, and said "the monetary system only works if people don't understand it".

What do you think?

I think the monetary system has been complicated by too many alleged gurus, eg investment bankers , economists and share speculators who think up new formulas that they reckon explain the monetary system, when all they are doing is throwing dirty water over the whole issue.

The system hasn't changed, it's just been hyped up to keep these gurus in a job and extend their mystique in the financial industry.

 

[rumpole]

I think the monetary system has been complicated by too many alleged gurus, eg investment bankers , economists and share speculators who think up new formulas that they reckon explain the monetary system, when all they are doing is throwing dirty water over the whole issue.

The system hasn't changed, it's just been hyped up to keep these gurus in a job and extend their mystique in the financial industry.

OK , it's changed a bit. e.g. Derivatives trading, which is just an extended form of gambling that I can't see adds any value to the market, but again just helps the gurus to stay in a job.

 

[Glen48]

And when they find their system is not working they change the rules or some Fed officer refuses to do any thing about it.

 

[craft]

I was talking to my friend about money not being backed by gold, money being debt, and fractional reserve banking. He made an interesting comment, and said "the monetary system only works if people don't understand it".

What do you think?

The monetary system works despite people not understanding it.

 

[lurker123]

I was talking to my friend about money not being backed by gold, money being debt, and fractional reserve banking. He made an interesting comment, and said "the monetary system only works if people don't understand it".

What do you think?

I would rather have a slave for life (debt), than a useless chunk of gold which only has a small real value because of its useful properties, maybe 5% and lots of made up value because currently a large chunk of the population decided to value it highly at the current time.

The monetary system works regardless of whether people understand it or not. The question is whether the current system is a good system.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

I was talking to my friend about money not being backed by gold, money being debt, and fractional reserve banking. He made an interesting comment, and said "the monetary system only works if people don't understand it".

What do you think?

Correct.


It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. ~ Henry Ford

The monetary system works regardless of whether people understand it or not. The question is whether the current system is a good system.

All monetary systems "work" until they don't.

 

[notting]

Henry Ford

I prefer not to quote losers unless I'm being cynical.

 

[lurker123]

All monetary systems "work" until they don't.

Just like money backed by gold would work, until it doesn't.

You need to watch the source of all those quotes, instead of the second hand source of gold spruikers.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-secret-of-oz/
which goes over the history of money and possible solutions the the problem.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-money-masters/
the older 1996 video which gives a more in depth look at the history of money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6uuAupT4AQ
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/money-as-debt-promises-unleashed/
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/money-as-debt/
the money as debt series which properly details how money works.

The fact is that all the monetary systems that have been tried including money backed by gold have their weaknesses. The current system is still working, you just need to be in the class which the current system works best for. A goal which I and most of those in this forum are trying to attain, considering we are trading in shares.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

I prefer not to quote losers unless I'm being cynical.

Best not ever quote yourself then.

Henry Ford (July 30, 1863 – April 7, 1947) was an American industrialist, the founder of the Ford Motor Company, and sponsor of the development of the assembly line technique of mass production. His introduction of the Model T automobile revolutionized transportation and American industry. As owner of the Ford Motor Company, he became one of the richest and best-known people in the world. He is credited with "Fordism": mass production of inexpensive goods coupled with high wages for workers. Ford had a global vision, with consumerism as the key to peace. His intense commitment to systematically lowering costs resulted in many technical and business innovations, including a franchise system that put dealerships throughout most of North America and in major cities on six continents.

Ford astonished the world in 1914 by offering a $5 per day wage ($120 today), which more than doubled the rate of most of his workers.

On Jan. 5, 1914, Henry Ford, head of the Ford Motor Company, introduced a minimum wage scale of $5 per day, more than doubling the wages for most employees. He also offered profit sharing to employees who lived a clean lifestyle, reduced the daily worker’s shift to eight hours from nine and declared that no employee would “be discharged except for proved unfaithfulness or irremediable inefficiency.”

Your ungrateful **** should thank Henry Ford for everything all employees worldwide have today.

Just like money backed by gold would work, until it doesn't.

It worked perfectly well and better than this retarded **** we have going here now.

The current system is still working, you just need to be in the class which the current system works best for. A goal which I and most of those in this forum are trying to attain, considering we are trading in shares.

That's the most perverted thing I've ever heard. You are a sick person to endorse slavery. Not to mention if you have watched money as debt like you claim, you should be well aware that the current system is coming at an end.

 

[notting]

Whoops!!
Sorry wrong Ford.
I am an idiot!
However revolutions normally don't happen until the people feel too much is being taken from them and that there is something they can do about it.
How monetary systems work - most don't give a rats.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

Whoops!!
Sorry wrong Ford.
I am an idiot!
However revolutions normally don't happen until the people feel too much is being taken from them and that there is something they can do about it.
How monetary systems work - most don't give a rats.

I'm very glad to hear it!!! I cannot imagine how anyone would not like Ford.

In terms of the revolution, well let us see whether the GFC and the ongoing mess will deliver. Things might not be so bad in Australia (yet), but in the US and Europe it's a whole other story.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Whoops!!
Sorry wrong Ford.
I am an idiot!

lol I was wondering why you called Ford a loser

 

[cynic]

The monetary system works regardless of whether people understand it or not. The question is whether the current system is a good system.

+1

I think it's fairly safe to say that society is starting to awaken to the various shortcomings of our current monetary system.

 

[lurker123]

It worked perfectly well and better than this retarded **** we have going here now.

Shows you haven't watched the original videos and only the 2nd hand sources of gold spruikers. I won't explain the problem with money backed by gold as it is explained perfectly in the original videos. I have also posted other problems with it not mentioned in the videos, in the "The Global Economic Crisis and Its Effect on the Australian Currency" thread.

That's the most perverted thing I've ever heard. You are a sick person to endorse slavery. Not to mention if you have watched money as debt like you claim, you should be well aware that the current system is coming at an end.

Eventually it will come to a end, if we fail to achieve interstellar travel so we can start raping the resources of other planets. The question is when. I see a high chance of it persisting in my life time, so the fact that it might come to a end is irrelevant to me personally. Even if it comes to a end, the elites will just find a way to manipulate the new system that gets created. The elites didn't get where they are by being dumb. Successful psychopaths aren't dumb, hence the "successful".

I'm just taking the defeatist attitude. The system we have now is what I have to deal with, so i just have to make the best of what we have. So yeah, humanity is ****ed, I don't give a ****, nothing I can do about it except try to become the class that benefits so i'm not ****ed myself.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

Shows you haven't watched the original videos and only the 2nd hand sources of gold spruikers. I won't explain the problem with money backed by gold as it is explained perfectly in the original videos. I have also posted other problems with it not mentioned in the videos, in the "The Global Economic Crisis and Its Effect on the Australian Currency" thread.

Nothing that is a potential problem with the gold standard can even come close to the problems of fractional reserve banking and central banks which create all money and charge everyone interest, which goes to rich international banker families.

I'm just taking the defeatist attitude. The system we have now is what I have to deal with, so i just have to make the best of what we have. So yeah, humanity is ****ed, I don't give a ****, nothing I can do about it except try to become the class that benefits so i'm not ****ed myself.

I for one refuse to sit idly by while myself and 7 billion others live as slaves, in the servitude of a few.

 

[notting]

In terms of the revolution, well let us see whether the GFC and the ongoing mess will deliver.

It was the people who voted for tomorrows welfare pay packet at the expense of their country and who feasted on cheap goods from slave nations at the ultimate expense of their own and their childrens longer term employment/welfare that created the GFC, not the monetary systems, that accommodated it. If the democratic people were honest with themselves they could only revolt against themselves.

The problem with the models is that GROWTH is God! Worshiped blindly in policy making.

If I had to put money on it, I'd probably go for heavier seas due to land glacier melts pushing down on the plates causing some major volcanic eruption that wipes out about a third of the living space on earth and causes a pretty major freeze up that will hit the reset button for the rest.
The growth model can continue on from there again.
Pity we can't be smarter about it with educated social conscience.

Then again, a meteorite is of course a free radical that has no probability assignable to it, nor a developable system to avert it.

But tomorrow we wake up and the game is still on, so we play the status quo.
Imponderables.
How much time is it worth investing in them?

 

[Starcraftmazter]

It was the people who voted for tomorrows welfare pay packet at the expense of their country and who feasted on cheap goods from slave nations at the ultimate expense of their own and their childrens longer term employment/welfare that created the GFC, not the monetary systems, that accommodated it. If the democratic people were honest with themselves they could only revolt against themselves.

I'm pretty sure all the housing and other speculative bubbles around the world would not exist if we had a hard currency backed by gold, so people couldn't get infinity gold to bid each other up on overpriced assets

 

[lurker123]

I'm pretty sure all the housing and other speculative bubbles around the world would not exist if we had a hard currency backed by gold, so people couldn't get infinity gold to bid each other up on overpriced assets

You might be right there, on the other hand we would have massive unemployment because there is not enough money around.

By the way, as stated in the original videos, gold backed money is even more easily manipulated by the international banksters. Your own link "Crash Course: Chapter 9 - A Brief History of U.S. Money by Chris Martenson" even mentions how the federal reserve was created when the US dollar was backed by gold. It even mentions how quote: "complete control of the gold supply of the most powerful and prosperous nation on earth was exchange for 11 billion dollars printed out of thin air."

I thought it was understood that money attracts money. Under a limited money supply, as one backed by the gold standard, you would end up with those at the top accumulating all the wealth, in this case gold, a lot quicker than otherwise. Inflation as under fiat currency is a partial reset switch to this problem. Since it devalues money and discourages hoarding. Under the gold standard, deflation would be the norm, and deflation = massive unemployment such as during the great depression.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

You might be right there, on the other hand we would have massive unemployment because there is not enough money around.

Buddy, that makes absolutely zero sense. Please do even try to explain it, and I promise I will without insult explain why you are wrong.

There can never be "not enough" money. Gold can be priced at anything required relative to other assets. When growth exceeds gold supply growth the miracle of deflation occurs. This is one of the key differences between our current system and the godly gold system - it benefits the people, whereas the current system benefits the elite. That is why they spread lies and other bull**** about gold.

In reality gold is by far the best way to go.

By the way, as stated in the original videos, gold backed money is even more easily manipulated by the international banksters. Your own link "Crash Course: Chapter 9 - A Brief History of U.S. Money by Chris Martenson" even mentions how the federal reserve was created when the US dollar was backed by gold. It even mentions how quote: "complete control of the gold supply of the most powerful and prosperous nation on earth was exchange for 11 billion dollars printed out of thin air."

Yes, and this is why fiat currency goes hand in hand with central banking.

That is why if we are to have a gold standard, there must be no central banks, and money must not be capable of being printed by any bank. This is why the government must issue all IOUs for gold into the monetary system.

I thought it was understood that money attracts money. Under a limited money supply, as one backed by the gold standard, you would end up with those at the top accumulating all the wealth, in this case gold, a lot quicker than otherwise. Inflation as under fiat currency is a partial reset switch to this problem. Since it devalues money and discourages hoarding. Under the gold standard, deflation would be the norm, and deflation = massive unemployment such as during the great depression.

No dude, just no. That is not how it works. Deflation does not cause unemployment under the gold standard without central banks - that is a fallacy which people are led to believe because it happens under out current monetary system which benefits the rich and screws over everyone else. The Federal Reserve was the primary cause of the great depression - not the gold standard. Hell, Bernanke himself has admitted this!
http://www.wnd.com/2008/03/59405/

Let me end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of the Federal Reserve. I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You’re right, we did it. We’re very sorry. But thanks to you, we won’t do it again.

If the US was under the gold standard, it's currency issued by the treasury, none of the crap that caused the great depression would have ever happened.



In a capitalist country with a gold standard, and no central banking and free markets - then high unemployment would be literally impossible, with very rare exceptions, where it wouldn't last long - certainly not as long as it has in USA and Europe since the GFC.

In reality virtually all panics and recessions are caused by mal-investment and speculation, which cannot occur to a devastating enough degree without fractional reserve banking and the ability of someone to print money. The worst thing that happened back in the day was that a few stupid banks (out of hundreds) went bankrupt, and in 1-3 years the economy got over it.

Did that suck? Yes
Did unemployment temporarily spike? Yes
Did the government need to bail anyone out? **** no
Did the government need to tax people to make up for their own failures? **** no
Did the gold standard ever stop America from growing faster than China and having the biggest and richest middle class in the whole world? No it damn well did not


Not only did the Fed cause the Great depression and the GFC, but almost all of the recessions in between, with the only major exception being the oil shock of 1979. And to be perfectly fair, that was a direct result of US and UK puppetry intervention in Iran (surprise surprise, ****'s happening again).