Whale wars

[Calliope]

Calliope you always get the thumbs up from me.

I seriously believe people who have a Green agenda are chemically imbalanced. Not a joke. They are seriously twisted souls.

Thanks JTLP. Brendan O'Neill has some advice for these twsted souls.

But there is something unsettling about people who make it their mission to curry international disgust for foreign cultural practices they either don't understand or don't like.

You don't like whale-hunting? Then don't do it. You don't like the idea of whale meat? Then don't eat it. But please stop branding as cruel, perverse, heartless and foul those people who have been doing such things for generations, and who think it is perfectly normal behaviour.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...n-war-on-whalers/story-e6frgd0x-1226243925289

 

[nioka]

nioka, You say you worked on several stations. What type of whale were you involved with?

Not several. TWO. Most of the oil that was produced at Tangalooma was used in the manufacture of margarine with the exception of a small amount of second grade that did not reach the edible standard. The same applied to Byron Bay, Carnavon, Albany, Norfolk Is and the two new Zealand factories. I was involved also in designing plants for the handling of whales for both the Cook Is and Tonga where they wanted to take only small numbers for meat. I also designed a plant for A Fiji company but it was at tha time the population of whales had been decimated and it never progressed past the planning stage. Tangalooma only ran out of whales AFTER the herd had been decimated by Onassis in antartic waters. I did not work at Tangalooma but am familiar with the factory there.

I was involved with only humbback,fin and sei whales.

After my active whaling days and while whaling was still going on at Tangalooma I was working for a company that manufactured margarine from whale oil that came from Tangalooma.

 

[Smurf1976]

The Japanese are simply ahead of the times on this one.

With the rising price of electricity due to deregulation and the impending carbon tax, electric lights will become unaffordable for the masses. And with peak oil just around the corner, using hurricane lamps running on kero isn't an option either.

Here comes the return of the whale oil lamp as the affordable means of lighting in the 21st Century... :

Seriously, just leave the whales alone. Does man have to hunt, chop down, dam, farm or dig up literally every single resource on the planet? Leave the whales alone, they don't seem to be doing any harm as it is.

 

[pixel]

Does man have to hunt, chop down, dam, farm or dig up literally every single resource on the planet?

Good and valid question, smurf;

but I'm afraid, the answer is Yes. Unless "man" voluntarily stops breeding ever increasing numbers, who need to be housed, clothed, fed... space for all other organisms will continue to be encroached upon, reduced, and the organisms themselves served up to feed the starving, the hungry, the comfortable, and most importantly the affluent obese.

At some stage, when all food sources have been exhausted, cannibalism may evolve to the point that an equilibrium is reached. I sincerely hope I'll be gone by then.

 

[Calliope]

Seriously, just leave the whales alone. Does man have to hunt, chop down, dam, farm or dig up literally every single resource on the planet? Leave the whales alone, they don't seem to be doing any harm as it is.

Yeah, but why pick on the Japanese. Harvesting whales is a cultural thing for the Japanese. We are happy to ignore the "cultural" harvesting of the seriously endangered dugong here in Australia.

Cultural connections
Dugongs are an essential element of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people's living maritime culture along the Great Barrier Reef World Heritage Area. The use of marine food resources such as the dugong greatly strengthens Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture and demonstrates connection with traditional sea country.
The activities associated with the hunting of dugong and preparing and sharing the meat has great significance and is an expression of the continuance of long cultural traditions. In remote coast areas, dugongs have a high social and economic value because they provide subsistence food to communities where a nourishing diet is essential but often expensive to attain.

http://www.gbrmpa.gov.au/about-the-reef/animals/dugong

 

[Macquack]

Yeah, but why pick on the Japanese. Harvesting whales is a cultural thing for the Japanese. We are happy to ignore the "cultural" harvesting of the seriously endangered dugong here in Australia.



http://www.gbrmpa.gov.au/about-the-reef/animals/dugong

Calliopes, your argument is irrelevant as the International Whaling Commission actually allows whaling for "aboriginal subsistence" purposes.

The issue in contention is the IWC does not allow whaling for "commercial purposes".

Keep trying to promote the Japanese whalers cause.

Maybe your job was a whaler and you are in fact Japanese?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling

 

[Calliope]

Calliopes, your argument is irrelevant as the International Whaling Commission actually allows whaling for "aboriginal subsistence" purposes.

I see you are a whale lover, but the poor ugly dugong is not lovable, so the dugong is fair game for "aboriginal subsistence" But the lovable whale is forbidden for Japansese subsistence. Watson and his thugs wouldn't have the guts to harass the islanders in Torres Strait. They prefer to do their act on the world stage.

Your views are obviously based on racial hatred of the Japanese. We don't tolerate other peoples cultures very well. The Japanese were whalers when your ancestors lived in caves. The International Whaling Commission is a waste of space.

Whaling has been an important part of Japanese society for over 1,000 years. Recently, however, it has come under fire from countries and organizations who strongly oppose this practice. It is important to be familiar with the history of whaling in Japan if one wants to fully understand the issue.

http://www.facts-about-japan.com/whaling-history.html

Dugongs have no charisma.

 

[Macquack]

Your views are obviously based on racial hatred of the Japanese. We don't tolerate other peoples cultures very well. The Japanese were whalers when your ancestors lived in caves. The International Whaling Commission is a waste of space.

If it were not for the majority of the members of the International Whaling Commission "honouring" the 1986 ban on commercial whaling these Japanese whaling scum would have no whales to harvest.

The Japanese are slow learners when it comes to democracy , it took two atomic bombs before they surrendered their world supremacy plans.

when your ancestors lived in caves

Calliope, what were your ancestors living in - Castles???

 

[Smurf1976]

I would argue that culture / tradition is irrelevant in the context of natural resource management.

It could be argued that "fibro" (asbestos) housing is part of Aussie culture from the 1950's and 60's. That doesn't justify exposing people to asbestos now.

Cigarette smoking inside office buildings, shops, cinemas and everywhere else was very much an entrenched part of the culture in this country that only started to change in the 70's. Even in the early 1990's, nobody would have looked twice if you lit one up in the main area of just about any shopping centre. But clearly we wouldn't accept it today.

And what about things like logging and dam building? It could certainly be argued that dam construction was culturally / socially very significant as an activity in Tasmania through much of the 20th Century or that numerous communities across Australia have similar associations with the timber industry. That didn't stop World Herritage listing of practically every undammed river in Tas or the protection of forests all over the place.

 

[Calliope]

The Japanese are slow learners when it comes to democracy , it took two atomic bombs before they surrendered their world supremacy plans.

No doubt you would like to repeat the dose. You show all the symptoms of xenophobia.

"One of the key driving forces behind much international animal rights activism is not so much love for animals as disgust and disdain for wicked human beings especially human beings with dark or "yellow" skin." Brendan O'Neill.

Smurf says "I would argue that culture / tradition is irrelevant in the context of natural resource management."

The way we handle our own "cultures " is our own business. It doesn't give us the right to dictate that other people of other races change their cultures to accommodate our selfish whims. If the Japanese had our unlimited natural resources they might switch their diets to one we agree with. Like eating more beef, which costs huge natural resources to produce.

 

[pixel]

The Japanese are slow learners when it comes to democracy , it took two atomic bombs before they surrendered their world supremacy plans.

hmm - that is an "interesting" statement.
I've never looked at democracy that way. But now you mentioned it, yes: the Japanese civilians that lost lives and loved ones in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would most definitely have learned to appreciate the moral and ethical supremacy of a humane democratic system. As would the civilians caught in the fire storms in Hamburg and Dresden.

... but hang on: Hadn't Commodore Perry already proved to the Japanese that the US version of democracy and trading on its terms ruled supreme? They surely would have seen reason and accepted that the military supremacy that backed up his demands made any resistance futile - as long as their own lack of military force left them no means to realise their own democratic right of self-determination.

And in case that sounds too anti-democratic from a USA perspective - after all, they're "The Land of the Free" - read up on the Opium Wars, which secured the democratic right of British free traders to supply Chinese addicts with recreational drugs.
That set a fine precedent for the democratic rights now claimed by Tobacco Multi-Nationals.

Sorry, I know it's unfair to argue with facts from History. Especially when so few "defenders of democracy" bother studying history, or even if the do, refuse to learn from it.

Calliope, ours crossed.

The way we handle our own "cultures " is our own business. It doesn't give us the right to dictate that other people of other races change their cultures to accommodate our selfish whims. If the Japanese had our unlimited natural resources they might switch their diets to one we agree with. Like eating more beef, which costs huge natural resources to produce.

+1

 

[Julia]

Your views are obviously based on racial hatred of the Japanese. We don't tolerate other peoples cultures very well. The Japanese were whalers when your ancestors lived in caves.

I abhor the cruelty with which the Japanese treat the whales. I have the same level of abhorrence for any cruelty by any person of any race toward any animal, including the aboriginal sport of hunting dugong.

Does that make me someone who is nursing a racial hatred of pretty much every race?

No doubt you would like to repeat the dose. You show all the symptoms of xenophobia.

I'm sure McQuack can defend himself. But I find this statement unreasonable and quite offensive. As above, I'm also opposed to whaling but don't consider that makes me xenophobic.

I enjoy many of your observations, Calliope, but sometimes wonder why you seem to be unnecessarily nasty.

 

[noco]

calliopi, your reference to whaling when our ancestors were living in caves and even maybe as recent as 80 years ago, whalers were brave men who were in rowing boats with harpons. It gave the whale a sporting chance to get away whereas today with fast boats and mechancal means, the whale does not have a chance. In those days they were not killing thousands of whale each year as they are today and consequently the numbers were not diminished to any great degree.

I was involved with a bow hunting club for some years and it was the skill of the bow hunter to get within close range of an animal to get a one shot kill. It is the ethics of all club to make sure the animal did not suffer. Goats had very sensitive sight, hearing and smell, where as with a rifle and telescopic sites the animal does not have a sporting chance. On some sheep and cattle properties goats were out of proportion to the number of sheep and cattle and consuming fodder needed for the sheep and cattle. Some property owners would only allow bow hunters as the use of rifles were too dangerous for the other stock.

So when I compare whaling today to 80 + years ago. the whale also does not have sporting chance whatsoever.

I am against whaling fullstop.

 

[Calliope]

I abhor the cruelty with which the Japanese treat the whales. I have the same level of abhorrence for any cruelty by any person of any race toward any animal, including the aboriginal sport of hunting dugong.

Good for you.

Does that make me someone who is nursing a racial hatred of pretty much every race?

I've no idea. Incidentally the islanders do no hunt the dugong for "sport." They eat them.

I'm sure McQuack can defend himself. But I find this statement unreasonable and quite offensive. As above, I'm also opposed to whaling but don't consider that makes me xenophobic.

Xenophobe; "A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples." This definition does not include all people opposed to whaling, just the nasty ones The present Japanese generations are far removed from the generation that we atom bombed into democracy, but xenophobia is alive and well with the whaling crowd.

I enjoy many of your observations, Calliope, but sometimes wonder why you seem to be unnecessarily nasty.

"Unnecessarily nasty"? That is your perception? It is the anti-whalers who are nasty and xenophobic

So Australia's anti-whalers have successfully rehabilitated what many of us considered to be long-dead prejudices against the Japanese.

Echoing World War II propaganda that tended to depict the Japanese as uniquely wicked - far more weirdly sadistic than the Germans, say - the Sea Shepherd website informs us that the whaling carried out in the Southern Ocean is "cruel and barbaric, a gross sadistic perversion".

A columnist for The Courier-Mail once lamented the "uncivilised barbarity" of that whaling nation of Japan, in contrast to Australia, which is "a civilised nation of pet-lovers".

Here, the issue of whaling is openly used to advertise the decency of white folk who own puppies over yellow people who scoff whale meat.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...n-war-on-whalers/story-e6frgd0x-1226243925289

 

[todster]

Is this your obsession Calliope because apparently you cant debate with an obsessive

 

[Julia]

I've no idea. Incidentally the islanders do no hunt the dugong for "sport." They eat them.

Unless someone is hunting for food because they have no alternative food source, it's sport as far as I'm concerned.
Are you suggesting that if they didn't hunt the dugong they would starve?

Xenophobe; "A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples."

I'm sure we're all aware of the definition of xenophobic.
The issue is nothing to do with foreign cultures and everything to do with unnecessary cruelty.

 

[Calliope]

Unless someone is hunting for food because they have no alternative food source, it's sport as far as I'm concerned.
Are you suggesting that if they didn't hunt the dugong they would starve?[

Not at all. You have a weird idea of sport.

Dugongs are an essential element of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people's living maritime culture along the Great Barrier Reef World Heritage Area. The use of marine food resources such as the dugong greatly strengthens Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture and demonstrates connection with traditional sea country.
The activities associated with the hunting of dugong and preparing and sharing the meat has great significance and is an expression of the continuance of long cultural traditions. In remote coast areas, dugongs have a high social and economic value because they provide subsistence food to communities where a nourishing diet is essential but often expensive to attain.

http://www.gbrmpa.gov.au/about-the-reef/animals/dugong

I'm sure we're all aware of the definition of xenophobic.
The issue is nothing to do with foreign cultures and everything to do with unnecessary cruelty.

The xenophobia practised by anti-Japanese activists and their supporters on these pages has has everything to do with xenophobia and nothing to do with animal cruelty. You accuse me of being nasty, because I cannot condone xenophobia. If that is being nasty, I plead guilty.

 

[pixel]

The issue is nothing to do with foreign cultures and everything to do with unnecessary cruelty.

The Japanese would beg to differ, Julia. And on their behalf, so would I.
We, who have been brought up under Western values, may cringe at what seems quite "normal" to Non-Westerners. And vice versa. I too would politely decline an invitation to a meal of Chow-Chow Cantonese. However, I wouldn't even try to explain to my hosts why Mongolian Lamb is OK, while Dog in plum sauce is not.
Still, like you, I'm quite happy to know that cats and dogs are off the menu in Australia.

I would also reject as presumptuous any attempts to deny Indigenous peoples the right to continue hunting whichever animals they have been hunting for generations. For their tribal subsistence that is, and only in the confines of their tribal life; not for sport, tourism, or commercial gain.

 

[todster]

Is the way some religions treat women "part of there culture"acceptable then?

 

[sptrawler]

I would also reject as presumptuous any attempts to deny Indigenous peoples the right to continue hunting whichever animals they have been hunting for generations. For their tribal subsistence that is, and only in the confines of their tribal life; not for sport, tourism, or commercial gain.

Therefore on that basis is it o.k for indigenous Chinese to hunt and kill pandas, as they have done for generations, in the confines of their village life, not for sport or commercial gain?
Where do you draw the line on what animal is o.k to kill for food?
Is it one that we breed to harvest and if so why is it o.k to kill that one as opposed to any other creature?
Because we breed it, do we have the right to kill it, any more than people who kill animals we don't breed to harvest?