Learning a New Language

[danago]

How many people here are multilingual? Did you learn it naturally as you grew up, or much later in your life?

I grew up speaking English as a first language, however some of my relatives speak Italian, and it was also the first language of both my parents, so it is not completely new to me. Uni has just finished for the semester, and i have decided to self-teach as much Italian as possible. I have always thought that it would be cool to fluently speak a second language, and i love the Italian culture and would really love to visit Europe one day, hence my decision to learn

What do you think is the best way to learn a language? Many people claim that immersing oneself in the language is the best method, however i have no plans to go and live in Italy any time soon :

 

[skc]

How many people here are multilingual? Did you learn it naturally as you grew up, or much later in your life?

I grew up speaking English as a first language, however some of my relatives speak Italian, and it was also the first language of both my parents, so it is not completely new to me. Uni has just finished for the semester, and i have decided to self-teach as much Italian as possible. I have always thought that it would be cool to fluently speak a second language, and i love the Italian culture and would really love to visit Europe one day, hence my decision to learn

What do you think is the best way to learn a language? Many people claim that immersing oneself in the language is the best method, however i have no plans to go and live in Italy any time soon :

We and my wife decided to learn some conversational Spanish before we travelled to South America, and we were recommended by a friend to the lesson CDs by Michel Thomas.

The teaching method was amazing! He had us speaking very basic Spanish in no time, and we were both very surprised how engaged we were in listening to those CDs. It puts you in a frame of mind to construct sentences by the 2nd CD.

I strongly recommend you giving that a try.

 

[tech/a]

Currently in PARIS.
Been to Spain,Italy,Switzerland ,and Germany
Had no problems conversing.

Best method by far
Do you speak Australian?
No
BUT I do speak English!

It was very apparent early in the trip that British and Americans were not --- let's say--- helped by Europeans.
I have found everyone extremely helpful with a Paris Cabbie explaining everything we passed once he knew we were Australian.

Very different to the cabbie who picked me up when Arriving and thought I was British.
Although he understood and definitely spoke English he refused to speak English to me.
So I spoke in English and he replied in French.
This went on for 20 mins.
After he dropped me off I said that when he was in Australia he should look me up.
To which he replied.
Australian?
Why did you not say!

 

[danago]

We and my wife decided to learn some conversational Spanish before we travelled to South America, and we were recommended by a friend to the lesson CDs by Michel Thomas.

The teaching method was amazing! He had us speaking very basic Spanish in no time, and we were both very surprised how engaged we were in listening to those CDs. It puts you in a frame of mind to construct sentences by the 2nd CD.

I strongly recommend you giving that a try.

Thanks! I hadn't heard of the Michel Thomas system until you mentioned it, so i did a little research and it seems that it is quite popular. I will definitely look into it

Currently in PARIS.
Been to Spain,Italy,Switzerland ,and Germany
Had no problems conversing.

Best method by far
Do you speak Australian?
No
BUT I do speak English!

It was very apparent early in the trip that British and Americans were not --- let's say--- helped by Europeans.
I have found everyone extremely helpful with a Paris Cabbie explaining everything we passed once he knew we were Australian.

Very different to the cabbie who picked me up when Arriving and thought I was British.
Although he understood and definitely spoke English he refused to speak English to me.
So I spoke in English and he replied in French.
This went on for 20 mins.
After he dropped me off I said that when he was in Australia he should look me up.
To which he replied.
Australian?
Why did you not say!

Haha i will remember that for when i finally do get to Europe : I have heard a similar story from somebody else who traveled there a while ago.

 

[pixel]

In my experience, unless you immerse yourself in a language - i.e. live in the respective country among the natives - it is very hard to maintain a reasonable level of proficiency.
Growing up in a bilingual envoronment and learning additional language(s) as a toddler is definitely an advantage. However, even then the old saw remains true "If you don't use it you lose it."

For above reasons, conversing in a range of languages remains much easier for a mobile European than for a visiting Australian.
As I like to put it: "In Europe, if you get drunk and roll down your door step, you're in another country."

 

[bellenuit]

In my experience, unless you immerse yourself in a language - i.e. live in the respective country among the natives - it is very hard to maintain a reasonable level of proficiency.
Growing up in a bilingual envoronment and learning additional language(s) as a toddler is definitely an advantage. However, even then the old saw remains true "If you don't use it you lose it."

I definitely concur with that.

During my working career I spent approximately 3 years in Holland and 3 in Germany.

When I was in Holland I was in an international software development group and our official "work" language was English. In Holland almost all foreign TV shows and movies are subtitled rather than dubbed and as most originate from English speaking countries, you hear them in English. Additionally, the Dutch IMO are the most multilingual people in the world and love to converse in your language whenever they get the opportunity. After 3 years in Holland I spoke very little Dutch, in spite of attending classes.

In Germany the story was the opposite. My boss, who was German and also a friend told my work colleagues that they were to only speak to me in German. We had met in the US and he found that he quickly picked up English because he had no choice, so he reckoned that to immerse me in German would be best for me to. Additionally, most foreign movies and TV shows in Germany are dubbed into German rather than subtitled and although most Germans speak some English, they are not near as proficient as the Dutch. Within 6 months I was speaking German pretty well and by the end of the 3 years I was reasonably proficient.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I'm sure there would be chatrooms where you could practice talking with someone in Italian. Then next time you talk in English, because they want to learn English. Correct and learn as you go. Better than book learning because you pick up on the commonly used lingo and slang which is vital.

 

[prawn_86]

We have done some of the Pimsleur spanish lessons. Seem to be alright, jsut struggle to find the time after work

 

[sinner]

Just to throw it out there, BBC provides language introduction services for most European languages

http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/italian/

Also I guess there is University grade Italian stuff on the MIT OpenCourseWare website if you look (usually includes lecture videos or audio, notes, practical and tutorial exercises etc).

 

[bellenuit]

Just to throw it out there, BBC provides language introduction services for most European languages

http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/italian/

Also I guess there is University grade Italian stuff on the MIT OpenCourseWare website if you look (usually includes lecture videos or audio, notes, practical and tutorial exercises etc).

There are lots of podcasts on the net as well.

 

[danago]

In my experience, unless you immerse yourself in a language - i.e. live in the respective country among the natives - it is very hard to maintain a reasonable level of proficiency.
Growing up in a bilingual envoronment and learning additional language(s) as a toddler is definitely an advantage. However, even then the old saw remains true "If you don't use it you lose it."

For above reasons, conversing in a range of languages remains much easier for a mobile European than for a visiting Australian.
As I like to put it: "In Europe, if you get drunk and roll down your door step, you're in another country."

If i go to Europe anytime soon, then i think getting drunk and rolling down my door steps may be my chosen mode of transportation

I'm sure there would be chatrooms where you could practice talking with someone in Italian. Then next time you talk in English, because they want to learn English. Correct and learn as you go. Better than book learning because you pick up on the commonly used lingo and slang which is vital.

I didn't think of that! Definitely something i will think about when i become more proficient.

We have done some of the Pimsleur spanish lessons. Seem to be alright, jsut struggle to find the time after work

A few sources that i read did recommend the Pimsleur system; another one that i will be looking into.

Just to throw it out there, BBC provides language introduction services for most European languages

http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/italian/

Also I guess there is University grade Italian stuff on the MIT OpenCourseWare website if you look (usually includes lecture videos or audio, notes, practical and tutorial exercises etc).

The BBC website looks quite good, with a range of resources covering issues other than pure grammar (culture, Italian television etc.).

I normally use MIT OCW for just about every course i take at uni, but i can't see an Italian course.

There are lots of podcasts on the net as well.

Yea i did a quick search on iTunes and found a few. Any you are familiar with and recommend?


I have started listening to the Michel Thomas lessons that skc recommended, and i have to say that i really like the style of Michel's approach, its actually quite fun

 

[skc]

I have started listening to the Michel Thomas lessons that skc recommended, and i have to say that i really like the style of Michel's approach, its actually quite fun

Remarkably refreshing isn't it...

I forgot to mention though that there is a slight negative. Because his method doesn't involve books/written materials, you will struggle sometimes with reading... you can say "Where is the male toilet?" but you can't understand it on the sign!

 

[danago]

Remarkably refreshing isn't it...

I forgot to mention though that there is a slight negative. Because his method doesn't involve books/written materials, you will struggle sometimes with reading... you can say "Where is the male toilet?" but you can't understand it on the sign!

True, but thankfully that won't be a big issue for me. I can read Italian reasonably well by identifying keywords and using my knowledge of basic syntax. Because i have some relatives who speak Italian, i have quite a good vocabulary. The main reason i am doing this is because i cannot speak and write Italian fluently; it is one thing to look at a sentence and understand its meaning, but putting a sentence together while being cautious of the nuances in the syntax is another. I am also reading a textbook that i found, which i used years ago back in high school.

 

[white_crane]

Learnt Italian during primary school and one year of high school. Still remember some, but nowhere near as much as I used to.

Learnt some Czech while I was in that country, same with German in Austria. Basic words like hello, goodbye, please and thank you, mostly from my phrasebook, but you also pick up things from just touring around.

Met a Romanian bloke in Vienna who learnt English drinking in an English pub. He spoke pretty well too!

Books and such are great, but I think immersion is the best learning tool.

 

[tothemax6]

Time and intensity of exposure.

The difference between reading books, listening to tapes, having lessons etc, and living there is:
You don't have to pick up a book, or listen to a tape, day-to-day, and you'll most of the time forget, or not be bothered, or only do a little bit.
You have to try and understand people, learn their language, try to speak some of it, if you live there.

If you are a disciplined soul, and can assure 1hr per weekday of study, and 4+hr of study on the weekend, and can do this constantly for 5 years, you will understand the language and be able to speak it (that is, actually understand and speak, not "I can speak = I can say hello and thankyou" like people on facebook think). But you still won't be able to converse fluently.
To converse - you must spend some time in a country where the language is spoken.

This girl is probably a good inspiration if you want to go down the track of 'study like crazy':

And of course, proof she is not japan-born:

 

[franklin235]

My parents speak fluent Chinese. I grew up with that, and it helped when we visited the rellies in Asia, they didn't speak a word of English which forced me to give Chinese a bigger shot.

I'm also taking German classes, I started to get a lot better when our teacher began conducting the lessons in German, nobody paid the slightest attention in class when she gave orders in English.

 

[danago]

Time and intensity of exposure.

The difference between reading books, listening to tapes, having lessons etc, and living there is:
You don't have to pick up a book, or listen to a tape, day-to-day, and you'll most of the time forget, or not be bothered, or only do a little bit.
You have to try and understand people, learn their language, try to speak some of it, if you live there.

If you are a disciplined soul, and can assure 1hr per weekday of study, and 4+hr of study on the weekend, and can do this constantly for 5 years, you will understand the language and be able to speak it (that is, actually understand and speak, not "I can speak = I can say hello and thankyou" like people on facebook think). But you still won't be able to converse fluently.
To converse - you must spend some time in a country where the language is spoken.

This girl is probably a good inspiration if you want to go down the track of 'study like crazy':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1ifu1Bwr4Q&feature=channel_video_title
And of course, proof she is not japan-born:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfIDRY3h7lw&feature=relmfu

I don't have the slightest clue what she was saying, but it sounded convincing!

If i could fly to Europe for a month right now then i would, but life, aka uni and work, currently prohibits that : When i become more proficient i might try to simulate immersion by watching videos spoken in Italian (I'm sure YouTube can help me here) and maybe find somebody to chat online with

 

[pavilion103]

I have decided to learn Italian.

I studied it at school 10 years ago and remember much more than I thought I would.

Basically starting from the beginning though.

Why Italian?
1) My mum's side of the family is from Treviso
2) I have the basic foundation from school
3) I love Italy and would love to spend more time there.


I ordered a textbook and CDs last night on the recommendation of an Italian friend.

I am in no hurry. Just looking to learn over time.

Now that I've cut back work to 4 days a week it will be easier.

Excited!

 

[tech/a]

I have decided to learn Italian.

I studied it at school 10 years ago and remember much more than I thought I would.

Basically starting from the beginning though.

Why Italian?
1) My mum's side of the family is from Treviso
2) I have the basic foundation from school
3) I love Italy and would love to spend more time there.


I ordered a textbook and CDs last night on the recommendation of an Italian friend.

I am in no hurry. Just looking to learn over time.

Now that I've cut back work to 4 days a week it will be easier.

Excited!

PAV

Your life will never be long enough to cram everything you want to do into it!

 

[pavilion103]

PAV

Your life will never be long enough to cram everything you want to do into it!

Yes. It's all about opportunity cost. Limited time.

You've gotta enjoy these sorts of things and not do them for the sake of doing them.

I have no desire to do things to have a good CV or to look impressive. I just want to have fun and be stimulated.

I love learning.


Others that I was considering.....
1) Chinese - will be big in the future. But why do I need it? I don't want a career. I don't need to impress anyone. Plus the effort required would be too much for too little reward.
2) Spanish - Practical, widely used language. Probably my second choice.


When I am making some real good money I am going to spend some time in Italy. Go all over. And spend some time with family in a nice little village. Would be awesome to speak Italian over there.