Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

NBN Rollout Scrapped

I've never used the phrase earmarked.

I don't need to do the maths. According to the "maths" it will be repaid in 2034.

Yep, I must work for Conroy. Because I've already said I think his policy for the filter is stupid, and I was here at 11pm on a sunday night typing on an internet forum, and that's what pubic servants are paid to do :banghead::banghead::banghead:

Your article just goes to show, yet again, how one-sided the Australian's reporting about the NBN is. eg:

Australian Information Industry Association:
Ian Birks, CEO: “Given the high level of significance of the broadband issue, and in particular its resonance with the independents, we now expect to see the roll-out of the NBN prioritised in this government’s term”

“There are immediate returns on offer for every business that will only become more powerful with ubiquitous, high-speed broadband.”



The Council of Small Business of Australia:
Executive Director Peter Strong: “[The NBN] is an equal playing field. You don’t get that too often. We want it, we need it.”


The Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry:
Peter Anderson, CEO: “The instinct in the business community is that there can be a real productivity kick and benefit.”

Google:
Alan Noble, head of Engineering: “The NBN will underpin Australia’s digital economy and will be just as vital an enabler of innovation, economic growth and entrepreneurship in the 21st century as national highways and the electric grid were in the 20th century. Simply put, it means a world of opportunities for all Australians”


Intel:
Phil Cronin, Managing Director: “It’s now time to move beyond debate… the NBN has the potential to deliver significant long term benefits to consumers and small businesses alike”


Microsoft:
“This NBN will be critical in the years ahead and essential for reducing costs in health and education service delivery. It will also contribute to overcoming the tyranny of distance that exists in rural and regional Australia”


Optus:
Maha Krishnapillai, Dir. Govt & Corp affairs: “… Broadband is crucial to Australia’s future prosperity and fibre is indisputably the best way to deliver high-speed broadband for the long term. As Tony Windsor said and we agree: ‘You build it once. You build it right. You build it with fibre”. There are still some people querying that there’s going to be some new technology that’s going to replace fibre and as recently as yesterday people saying that fibre is no longer the technology of the future. I’m not exactly sure what parallel universe people live on but fibre will be the way of the future.”

Paul O’Sullivan, CEO: “It’s long been our view that the National Broadband Network is economically viable and the release of today’s detailed study from McKinsey and KPMG confirms this. Most importantly the study has found that access to the network will be available to all Australians at a price they can afford, which is essential to the healthy take-up of services on the new network.”


Vodafone:
Vittorio Colao, CEO: “Australia is taking a very bold step….I honestly think that the vision that in this country the Government has is a very healthy one”

I agree that the govt needs to do more education of some business groups, but overall it's being welcomed by the business communty. Interesting that one of the groups quotes by the Oz has publicly announced support for the project.:rolleyes:

Also interesting that the Murdoch press was one of the few media outlet that didn't report the CEO of Google's heavy praise of the NBN last week. Wonder why that was? :confused::confused::D:D

Smells like a Conroy hack job to me. You sirry iriot, not once was this a reference point. Just somehow in your guilt addled mind that you have espoused your preferences onto this subject??? Hard to belive that someone who REALLY likes the NBN would go to such great lengths to defend it as well as have ALL the rhetoric on hand to support such a massive con job on the Australian people. I remember when Keating tried on the "SA Smart State" programme to divert what was going on in the economy. LOLOLOL. Talk about history repeating itself. You remember this being a cosmopolitan 38 year old don't you? Keating was being whipped in the "unwinnable election". A red herring appeared in the form of buying votes in SA by stating that his Guvmint was going to build this technologically advanced super city where all the big brains can live and conceive how we should be living in the 21st Century. LOLOLOL. Sound familiar???

I also notive that ALL the business's that WANT the NBN have a vested interest .... Intel, Microsoft, Vodafone, Optus, Google and the rest just bleat what they are told.

I do not see Rio Tinto or Australia Post coming out nor do I see Woolworths or NAB extolling the virtues of the NBN ???? Ummmmmmm afterall they are 4 out of 10 of the biggest employers in Australia.

Talk about pear hunting ........ I know ..... let's give the keys to the liqour cabinet to the alcoholic and see if he will agree with you ?????? OF COURSE THEY GONNA AGREE WITH YOU !!!!!!!!!!! Pfffffffffttttttttttttttt ....... Now let's ask the general population if THEY want to spend billions of dollars on a technology they do not want nor understand when they are waiting for a doctor in an overcrowded hospital ... no wait ..... better yet ...... ask the person whose home has just been invaded and ask them if the require a blue cable giving them blindingly fast internet??? OR THE POLICE? Wait a minute , how about a nurse to attend to their cuts and bruises??? I think you will know the answer to this one.

You remind me of a guy I used to employ. Lazy to the extreme and always blaming as to why he couldn't get the job done because the tools and workplace were inadequate for HIM to realise his full potential. Funny how the other 9 guys on the shift could do the job easily enough. :rolleyes:

"Senator Conroy, like a latter day Basil Fawlty, hires one consultant after another instructing them 'don't mention the cost-benefit analysis', and everyone, just like the dinner guests at Fawlty Towers, does just that highlighting very plainly that they were told NOT to perform such an analysis and in so doing confirming how negligent it is not to ask and answer the fundamental question about the NBN," he said.

But wait there is more ........

Greenhill Caliburn's document did, however, contain a number of caveats about the NBN project. For example, it pointed out that the NBN's successful implementation and financial forecast were subject to a number of "risks, contingencies and external factors", such as shifting technologies and consumer preferences, and that there was a lack of "directly comparable precedents globally for the NBN". (brush this aside nothing to see here)

In addition, Greenhill Caliburn also had concerns around the pricing of future products based on the NBN, noting that consumers might push back against a usage-based pricing model, that lower prices might need to be set initially to encourage higher take-up rates, and that retail service provider margins on entry-level NBN services might combine with lower-than-expected growth in premium services such as internet delivered television. (brush this under the carpet , inconsequential this stuff)

http://www.zdnet.com.au/nbn-business-case-reasonable-caliburn-339309190.htm

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat ?????????????????

Don't add Telstra deal to NBN cost: Quigley

It is unreasonable to add the $13.8 billion payment to Telstra, which National Broadband Network Company (NBN Co) counts as an operating cost, to the $35.7 billion capital expenditure cost of the whole network, NBN Co chief Mike Quigley has said.

The government estimated that the original cost of the network would be $43 billion, however in the 36-page NBN business case summary released by the government last week, this figure was reduced to $35.7 billion.

NBN Co said this reduced cost was due to the Telstra deal, however this led to Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull and NBN critics with the Alliance for Affordable Broadband to add the $13.8 billion deal to the capital expenditure cost for the network to infer that the network may cost up to $55.2 billion.

http://www.zdnet.com.au/don-t-add-telstra-deal-to-nbn-cost-quigley-339307580.htm

and this little gem of a statement from Quigley no less,

"I know but I can't reveal that number," he said.

And my favourite of all time:-

"This is an asset that will be of value to the nation," he said.

Hmmmmmmmmmm ........ nation building springs to mind. ;)
 
Now let's ask the general population if THEY want to spend billions of dollars on a technology they do not want nor understand when they are waiting for a doctor in an overcrowded hospital ... no wait ..... better yet ...... ask the person whose home has just been invaded and ask them if the require a blue cable giving them blindingly fast internet??? OR THE POLICE? Wait a minute , how about a nurse to attend to their cuts and bruises??? I think you will know the answer to this one.

Errr didn't we just have an election? (asked the people) i seem to remember 1 vote Tony getting his ass handed to him :D seems to me like the people were asked if they wanted to spend billions of dollars on a technology they do not want nor understand.

And they said yes. :grinsking
 
ROFL ...... did the Independents that handed Labor power go to their electorates with a mandate to bring in the NBN ??? Did Bob Katter or Tony Windsor ask for the NBN or even advise their electorate what it actually was and was it a voting winner for him?? LOLOL.

Did the Greens want an NBN ?? Adam Bandt voted the Labor Party into power. He was the first to declare his hand and the three stooges held out for what they could get.

Nope ....... Labor rolled them like the pork barrels they are.

Man you are really clutching straws now So_Cyclical.

Read this for some facts http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/35...m_independents_over_43_billion_nbn_price_tag/
 
Errr didn't we just have an election? (asked the people) i seem to remember 1 vote Tony getting his ass handed to him :D seems to me like the people were asked if they wanted to spend billions of dollars on a technology they do not want nor understand.

And they said yes. :grinsking
You are once again ignoring the fact that it was the decision of the independents to give government to Labor. Because in their rural areas they wanted the reach of the NBN. Totally to do with their own constituency, not to do with the overall benefit to the country as a whole.
 
You are once again ignoring the fact that it was the decision of the independents to give government to Labor. Because in their rural areas they wanted the reach of the NBN. Totally to do with their own constituency, not to do with the overall benefit to the country as a whole.

Oh yeah i remember that now.
That was when Tony was smirking like he had it in the bag Bahaahah:D
Lying in bed at night dreaming of sleeping in the Lodge.
Red budgie smugglers hanging on the hills hoist overlooking the harbour.
Head nodding like a donkey.
 
Man you are really clutching straws now So_Cyclical.

Tranny you and the rest of the ASF right are the only straw clutchers around here :D
and even most of the ASF right have deserted you in this thread.

You asked the question
Because in their rural areas they wanted the reach of the NBN. .

At last...an admission from the ASF right that someone actually wants the NBN....its a miracle.:bowdown::bowdown:
 
Tranny you and the rest of the ASF right are the only straw clutchers around here :D
and even most of the ASF right have deserted you in this thread.

You asked the question

I provided the answer....Julia is prime minister because 1 vote Tony is a loser, as in lost the election = loser, and a vote for Julia was a vote for the NBN...i mean its pretty hard to see anyone voting for Labor and not voting for the NBN. :dunno: how is it possible to separate the two.

Tranny, ASF right = grasping at straws. :)

At last...an admission from the ASF right that someone actually wants the NBN....its a miracle.:bowdown::bowdown:

LOLOL ,,,,,,, Is that right ??

The federal coalition has hit the lead in the latest opinion poll, with a 54 per cent to 46 per cent two-party preferred majority over Labor.
The Nielsen poll, published in Monday's Fairfax newspapers, shows Labor has suffered a four per cent swing against it since the August election. :p:

On primary votes the coalition holds 46 per cent, Labor is on 32 per cent and the Greens hold 12 per cent.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...ead-in-latest-poll-E2SBC?opendocument&src=rss

Ummmmmmmmmm .......... you might wanna read a few posts back where I stated I am all for the NBN but NOT AT ANY COST ! Try rolling it out where it willl be most effective/useful/critical/needed/required (insert adjective here) like business hubs and or centres, hospitals, educational facilities (insert required facility here) ........... DERRRRRRRRRRR ......... tell me again WHY DOES the little Aussie Batller NEED 100mbps in their home when according to the Smith Family 11.3% of Australians live in poverty. Do THEY need a blue cable? What benefit is it to them? They want food and shelter and NOT FUGGEN FAST INTERNET !!!!

When are you gonna get it So_Cyclical ........ I don't care about the politics of it ....... I care about the ECONOMICS of it. ;)
 
I don't live under the tower but I am only a few buildings down the road.

And now because I do actually have the speeds I said I did it's not fair to the rest of Australia.

I'm not saying it isn't fair, I'm just saying it doesn't happen. In other words, mobile broadband isn't a viable alternative for the vast majority of the population, because (quite apart from the exorbitant pricing) it's just too slow.

I have not suggested that rural and regional Australia are not in need of an upgrade in their communications infrastructure. In fact posts from some forum members here make it glaringly obvious it's an urgent necessity.

It's not just rural and regional Australia. Even in major suburbs, NextG delivers maybe 2Mbps most of the time. I'd be pretty confident that even in the CBD, typicasl speeds are a fraction of what you are getting.

There are plenty of places in the capital cities where you can't even get ADSL, let alone anything faster. Baulkham Hills is an example you may be familiar with.

What I was pointing out via the recent article in the Australian is that HALF A MILLION Australians signed on to telstras nextG network in the past six months, a point you blithely ignore.
I ignored it because it's meaningless.

It's like saying that "K-Mart sold 500,000 bicycles in the last 6 months, and this is an indication that people are moving away from cars"

NextG is primarily a mobile phone network. Without knowing whether those connections were
a) People churning between carriers due to Voda and Optus' disasterous problems
b) People changing due to Telstra's newfound competitive mobile pricing
c) People just buying smartphones with a data pack (eg my wife)

There's absolutely no indication that any of these connections are replacing a fixed broadband service, which is exactly the point.

The "12% mobile only" statistic from the article includes people who have naked DSL through ULL connections, and Optus naked cable connections. In other words, they still have a fixed line, just not a fixed phone line. And it would be a lot higher than that if Naked DSL wasn't restricted to a small fraction of exchanges.

Between 2009 and 2010, the number of residential fixed broadband connections increased by 3%, which exceeds the growth in both number of premises and population. The volume of data downloaded over these connections increase by 50% over the same period.

Given the above (particularly the 50% data increase), do you really think that a service where the largest data pack on offer is only 12GB will cut it for many users as their primary connection?

And now telstra are going to quadruple their speeds by years end. It's an appealing option to a young mobile urbanised population.

And yet even TELSTRA say that they don't want 4G to replace fixed lines, and will be introducing tools to prevent "bandwidth hogs" such as IPTV, exactly the type of internet uses that are booming at present:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/aus...t-bandwidth-hogs/story-e6frgakx-1226009683543

That said, I'm certainly not denying that for a few low volume users, a solely mobile broadband connection will be their choice. And the NBN has factored in that there will be 15% of such premises. It's pretty clear that businesses will takeup the NBN, because mobile won't cut it for them, and it would also be impractical for families to choose mobile-only.

Once you combine the speed issue with the ever increasing data use (+50% a year, according to the ABS) and the cost (eg: 400GB data on the NBN for $70, versus 12Gb on NextG for $70), there is simply no way most people will replace their fixed broadband with mobile. Technical issues aside, it's too slow, too unreliable, and too expensive.

Any family household also loses the mobility option of wireless broadband. Because if Dad takes the modem to work with him for mobility, then the kids have nothing at home. Thereby removing the final incentive to pay 30 times as much for a slower version of the same thing....

But wait! Now we are expected to stump up 37 billion after the school hall and home insulation debacles?

Excellent this should go well.

Now really. 37 billion dollars.

Not the governments money mind you.

My money. And every other taxpayer in Australia.

Whether we are going to get value for money or not remains to be seen.

Well, actually it's $27bn from the Govt.

Now I'll give you the insulation thing. While perhaps good in theory, the implementation was atrocious.

But the BER was actually a pretty good program. I know the Right love to bag it, but it did the job with a minimum of problems. Perhaps you don't have kids so you haven't seen the results.

Also not sure why they love referring to it as the "school halls" program, since the building built depended on the needs of the school. Perhaps it sounds worse to call it that rather than the "school buildings program", or the "new classrooms program". My local primary and high schools both got new classrooms, because they already had nice halls. Anyway, I digress. The program cost 12% too much (except in NSW, where the tired incompetent State Govt couldn't manage a chook raffle these days), but it kept us out of recession and delivered new buildings to schools that had languished for many years. Given that it achieved its objectives so well, I don't have an issue with the 12% premium, because it all went back into the economy anyway.

Only 3% of schools were unhappy with what they got. I'm yet to understand how a 3% dissatisfaction rate can possibly constitute a "debarkle".:eek:
 
NBNMyths wrote this .... "It's like saying that "K-Mart sold 500,000 bicycles in the last 6 months, and this is an indication that people are moving away from cars"

OMFG ........ you just don't get it do you? Let's think about this logically shall we?

If automobiles HAD NOT been invented and were just about to be launched into Australia and the Guvmint insisted WE ALL HAVE TO HAVE ONE and then KMart sold 500,000 bicycles prior to the introduction of the car then I would be a bit nervous as a car dealer/wholesaler/manufacturer.

DO YOU GET IT NOW ???? :banghead:
 
Trainspotter: I think your analogy is wrong. Fibre isn't only just invented. People had access to fibre before NBN/FTTH announcement. Some greenfields were building it already and some retails ISPs were already offering it. It previously existed. Only now the government wants to push a more uniform system out to the bulk of the market.
 
1949 I am all for the telephone but NOT AT ANY COST ! Try rolling it out where it willl be most effective/useful/critical/needed/required (insert adjective here) like business hubs and or centres, hospitals, educational facilities (insert required facility here) ........... DERRRRRRRRRRR ......... tell me again WHY DOES the little Aussie Batller NEED a telephone in their home when according to the Smith Family 11.3% of Australians live in poverty. Do THEY need a black cable? What benefit is it to them? They want food and shelter and NOT FUGGEN GOSSIP WITH THE NEIGHBOURS !!!!

2011 I am all for the NBN but NOT AT ANY COST ! Try rolling it out where it willl be most effective/useful/critical/needed/required (insert adjective here) like business hubs and or centres, hospitals, educational facilities (insert required facility here) ........... DERRRRRRRRRRR ......... tell me again WHY DOES the little Aussie Batller NEED 100mbps in their home when according to the Smith Family 11.3% of Australians live in poverty. Do THEY need a blue cable? What benefit is it to them? They want food and shelter and NOT FUGGEN FAST INTERNET !!!!

The more things change, the more they stay the same:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCKQdh8qQxM
 
...[TS] even most of the ASF right have deserted you in this thread...
TS is ASF Right is he? Anyway he seems to have it covered.

Geez, 10 pages, backwards and forwards on the NBN, the fonts ever bigger. Can't believe how polarized, it has all become.

We're a big country, and logistically and financially we're not able to provide instant Korea-like connectivity, nor with a sole and exclusive (and expensive) delivery mechanism.
 
NBNMyths wrote this .... "It's like saying that "K-Mart sold 500,000 bicycles in the last 6 months, and this is an indication that people are moving away from cars"

OMFG ........ you just don't get it do you? Let's think about this logically shall we?

If automobiles HAD NOT been invented and were just about to be launched into Australia and the Guvmint insisted WE ALL HAVE TO HAVE ONE and then KMart sold 500,000 bicycles prior to the introduction of the car then I would be a bit nervous as a car dealer/wholesaler/manufacturer.

DO YOU GET IT NOW ???? :banghead:

What boofhead wrote, +

Fibre is nothing new. It's being rolled out around the world, as we speak.

In South Korea, where they already have a 4G wireless network, they announced last year that they are spending US$26bn upgrading their fixed fibre network.

So there you go. They have a car and a bicycle already. Because their bicycle can't replace their car, they are upgrading to a better car.

Meanwhile, in Australia we currently have a choice between a horse-and-cart or a bicycle....
 
Are you serious?

I am starting to take the concept that you are a Conroy paid shill more seriously.

Can we report maliciously disingenious posts to Joe?

I'm sure the admin of the site can quite easily verify where my IP is located.

Maybe I need to be more clear. I don't care for Conroy. I care for the NBN. I hate Conroy's stupid filter idea.

I find it quite amazing that people are quite happy to believe that anyone opposed to the NBN is doing so of their own volition, but anyone supporting it must be a paid shill.
 
Trainspotter: I think your analogy is wrong. Fibre isn't only just invented. People had access to fibre before NBN/FTTH announcement. Some greenfields were building it already and some retails ISPs were already offering it. It previously existed. Only now the government wants to push a more uniform system out to the bulk of the market.

OK OK OK boofhead ..... you have got me there. Let's not say INVENTED ..... let's say INTRODUCED forcibly onto the market place. Remember we were talking about selling 500,000 bicycles by KMart ..... it was a "hypothetical" situation. ;)
 
I'm sure the admin of the site can quite easily verify where my IP is located.

Maybe I need to be more clear. I don't care for Conroy. I care for the NBN. I hate Conroy's stupid filter idea.

I find it quite amazing that people are quite happy to believe that anyone opposed to the NBN is doing so of their own volition, but anyone supporting it must be a paid shill.

I care for the NBN as well. BUT NOT AT ANY COST. Place it where it is needed. (must be the 10th time I have written this??)

It would appear NBNMyths you are true to your word but you have to admit you DO have an extraordinarily amount of technobabble and facts and figures armed to your disposal. Remember I have previously written I do not care for the politics of the damn thing, I am more interested as a businessman as to the VIABILITY of it. If it does not make commercial sense (other than the Guvmint forecasts) and remember there is no cost benefit analysis available to us to mull over, what is the point?

The telephone analagoy was a joke right? LOLOL ...... They said the same thing about the Hindenburg and look what happened to that ! I do not trust this government (or any other) to implement a project of this scale in this current economic climate. Walk before you can run is the motto. There are too many grey areas that have not been thoroughly explored to just ram it down the throat of Australians. IMO that is.
 
I find it quite amazing that people are quite happy to believe that anyone opposed to the NBN is doing so of their own volition, but anyone supporting it must be a paid shill.

Actually my opinion is derived solely from observation of your words and behaviour on this thread.
 
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