Legalise some drugs, outlaw others?

[DB008]

Julia, I read a study once, and I don't have it to hand, but the researchers reckoned that up to 30% of all suburbs ingested marijuana at least once weekly.

I'd tend to believe this.

I'll search for it and post it when I find it.

Also someone did a scan of all euro currency in Italy and a huge 60% plus, tested positve.

It makes the argument for legalisation and harm minimisation more imminent.

gg

You got me thinking of when l was living in London in 2005 GG. There was a article that caught my eye and l still remember it to this day....read below...

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/in-one-canal/2005/11/07/1131211952516.html

Cocaine traces detected in Thames River

November 7, 2005 - 12:38AM

So much cocaine is being used in London that traces of the white powdered narcotic can be detected in the Thames River, a report says.

Citing scientific research it commissioned, the UK's Sunday Telegraph newspaper said an estimated two kilograms of cocaine, or 80,000 lines, spilled into the river every day after it has passed through users' bodies and sewage treatment plants.

It extrapolated that 150,000 lines of the illegal drug were snorted in the British capital every day, or 15 times higher than the official figure given by the Home Office.

"Because of the long-term complications of cocaine use, we are looking at a healthcare time bomb," clinical toxicologist John Henry was quoted as saying.

Cocaine use has been in the headlines in Britain after fuzzy images of supermodel Kate Moss apparently taking the drug in a London recording studio were published in a tabloid newspaper.

She soon went into detox after losing some of her most lucrative contracts, but is already making a comeback, appearing today on the front page of several newspapers - including the Sunday Telegraph.

- AFP

Julia, people are going to take drugs regardless of what anyone says. It's a fact of life and we must deal with it. May as well have it produced properly (ie, pharmaceutical grade quality) so that people who decide to take drugs know what they are getting (strength, quality, etc etc). How many stories do you hear of people that take H and it's a hot hit and kills 'em? I have friends that have had loved ones perish because of this. Heart breaking.

 

[prawn_86]

I can't believe they did a study using a rat as a human-analog in something so specific as the effects of drugs. There is quite a bit of physiological difference between a rat brain and a human brain, the researchers should be sacked.

This is part of my point (although i do think with proper detailed research rats are the closest thing we have to be used in studies of all kinds; with the exception of pigs or monkeys possibly). How are they meant to effectively study it if as soon as some-one mentions it they go "nope its illegal".

 

[tothemax6]

This is part of my point (although i do think with proper detailed research rats are the closest thing we have to be used in studies of all kinds; with the exception of pigs or monkeys possibly). How are they meant to effectively study it if as soon as some-one mentions it they go "nope its illegal".

Go to some lawless drug country and set up a study? Offer to buy the junkies all the drugs they want as long as you can study them etc. Probably would violate many ethics codes, but would get the job done .

 

[Sean K]

I'm sure a few people would only dream of having drugs put in their bag as they entered a party.



You were hot Tottie

She really should be locked up and the key thrown away.

Like in Indonesia!

 

[Julia]

Kennas, you started this thread (despite there being others of similar vein) but unless I've missed it, you've not contributed your own view.

Were you just bored and wanting to stir the pot? I did ask earlier what your own thoughts were.

 

[orr]

Just seen what you've been reading Julia, Hope you didn't miss this from the Crikey Big Ideas series By Kate Holden;
http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/11/23/kate-holden-lots-of-people-like-drugs-try-asking-them-about-it/

William Burroughs "Junky" I find myself going back too as well, someone who could be thought of as a long term study, 60 odd years, perceptive and productive to the end, if a little paranoid.

 

[Solly]

Off course what is often overlooked is what happens to some unfortunates involved in the production side of the business.

Just look what can happen when your meth lab goes up !

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/jan/23/no-headline---23b03methfire-folo/

 

[sails]

Off course what is often overlooked is what happens to some unfortunates involved in the production side of the business.

Just look what can happen when your meth lab goes up !

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/jan/23/no-headline---23b03methfire-folo/

When you look at the almost lifeless eyes of this girl whose picture is displayed on the link provided by Solly, you wonder if anyone is home because not even the lights appear to be on.

Is this what meth does to the brain?

 

[Julia]

Just seen what you've been reading Julia, Hope you didn't miss this from the Crikey Big Ideas series By Kate Holden;
http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/11/23/kate-holden-lots-of-people-like-drugs-try-asking-them-about-it/

Thanks for that, orr. Reading this makes me realise that anyone making a plea for people not to use some drugs necessarily comes across as simply being judgmental, patronising and lacking in understanding of the sheer pleasure many drugs can offer.

If this is in fact how my concerns have come across, I want to try to dispel that.

Kate Holden says in the 'big ideas' piece:

My time as a heroin addict was, admittedly, almost entirely horrible. Addiction and enslavement is terrifying and sometimes lethal.

The only people affected by my being impoverished, feared, despised, marginalised and degraded were me and my horrified family, as my self esteem was ground down, my prospects of rebuilding a respectable life receded and the only consolation was .... more drugs.

This is the essence of what I've been trying to say, probably very poorly.

I'm in favour of individual freedoms and resent strongly that we are forced to obey laws that seem to be made only for the most stupid amongst us. And I believe we need to be encouraged to take individual and personal responsibility for our decisions and largely live with the consequences. Our society is actually going in the other direction unfortunately.

I have no argument with the obvious conclusion that if drugs were decriminalised/legalised then the benefits in terms of crime reduction would be huge.

But my unrelenting concern is about addiction and the misery it confers not just on the addict but on his/her family, colleagues, relationships and finances.

I've already said that I've seen many 'respectable' professional people's lives in ruins because they discovered too late that the recreation had turned into an addiction.

Kate Holden uses the word 'enslavement'. She is so right. The constant seeking of the drug takes over the addict's whole life. Nothing else matters.

I'll offer an example, a story typical of many.

A doctor, in his late 30's, partner in a large general practice, president of the local professional body, lecturer of students, well liked and respected by all, happy marriage, two beautiful daughters, was discovered to have been addicted to narcotics for nearly ten years. None of his family or his partners had any idea.

Such is the insidious nature of narcotics that this doctor was taking forty times the therapeutic dose if the drug had been used for its approved indication, e.g. severe pain. Yet he showed no evidence of any 'high' or otherwise unusual behaviour.

All this massive dose of the drug was doing was keeping him from going into withdrawal.

Eventually the quantity prescribed for his patients drew the attention of the Health Department who made some enquiries amongst his patients, few of whom had ever received the prescriptions made in their names.

He was offered the choice between being prosecuted or take leave to get assistance.
Obviously he chose the latter. His family were shocked but supportive, as were his partners. He angrily submitted to three months at a private (and very discreet) psychiatric hospital well away from his city of residence where he unbelievably was permitted to keep his car and prescription pad, so happily drove round the new city filling prescriptions for himself. Such is the enslavement to the drug that even when everything he once valued is clearly on the line, he refuses to genuinely engage in any sort of therapeutic effort.

Eventually, he's discharged, the hospital feeling they had done all they could, went home on the proviso he continue to see a local psychiatrist and not prescribe the drug in question.

Meantime, the real reason for his absence from the practice had leaked out and an enterprising heroin addict saw an opportunity to get various precursor drugs prescribed by the doctor in exchange for giving him some heroin off the streets.
The lure of the narcotic was so great, the doctor succumbed to this blackmail and before long was himself sharing the smack in the filthy boarding houses on the street.

His despair at what he had become led further to his using benzodiazepines, barbiturates, amphetamine et al in a crazed attempt to block out what had become his reality. Before long this poisonous cocktail along with alcohol produced in him a psychotic state. He tried to kill his wife and threatened his children, and smashed up furniture when his partners tried to reason with him.

He engaged in some horrific abuse of patients, the details of which are too ghastly to be recorded here.

He was eventually arrested in a psychotic state, injecting himself with heroin in the small hours on a city pavement.

There was a lengthy trial with multiple charges and much publicity which further destroyed his family, colleagues and friends. He was financially destitute after legal fees had been paid. He went to jail for some years.

He was never successfully rehabilitated and died at an early age.

His story is just one of many that are similar.

This is why every time a thread like this comes up, I'm compelled to make a plea to all you bright, intelligent young people, all your lives ahead of you, to please not consider you're always going to be in control of what now seems like harmless and enjoyable recreation.

I wish all of you health and success, but most of all just want you to be safe.

 

[Sean K]

Kennas, you started this thread (despite there being others of similar vein) but unless I've missed it, you've not contributed your own view.

Were you just bored and wanting to stir the pot? I did ask earlier what your own thoughts were.

I'm not actually sure Julia.

I understand why we do have alcohol and tobacco due to historical cultural reasons, prior to understanding the real cost. Plus, if we banned them huge industries would be decimated.

Opium and Cocaine were actually legal for a while until whatever happened to ban them.

I understand why some drugs are banned because they are particularly damaging to your ability to function as a social animal.

But banning these things has not stopped them from being used and created massive illegal trade that is costing gazillions of dollars and lives. The drug cartels in Mexico have almost brought an entire country to a halt.

I think we do need to do something different to what's happening now, it's not working. Maybe legalising drugs for a trial period might at least give us an insight into the effects on society and put a stop to the illegal trade and all that that brings with it.

 

[maffu]

trust the great man himself to have the answer...

I am quite surprised no one commented on this video.
I quite enjoyed it myself, and found the reference to the War on Drugs increasing the barriers to entry for new suppliers and creating monopolies of drug cartels very interesting.

I have never used illegal drugs, but as someone who values economics, I believe the legalisation of certain drugs can be very beneficial to society.

Pros: Increased tax revenue, Lower drug usage, Smash drug dealer and cartels/lower organised crime, allow problem users to more easily admit to having problems and seek help (Portugal example).


By making Marijuana legal, with a well regulated supply for those aged 21+, with high taxation, it would dramatically lower usage. Weed was incredibly easy to get in high school, much easier than Alcohol was, and it is in those teenage years when it does more damage, and is more tempting to use.

 

[Sean K]

I am quite surprised no one commented on this video.

A lot of common sense there. Hard to argue with really.

 

[Logique]

A lot of common sense there. Hard to argue with really.

Plus 1 on that.

 

[Sean K]

One ecstasy tablet in her husband's pocket potentially spells the end of a political career. Meanwhile, millions of people suck back more damaging (legal) tobacco to their hearts discontent causing massive economic and personal hardship.

The irony is heartbreakingly irrefutable.

 

[DB008]

5 Years After: Portugal's Drug Decriminalization Policy Shows Positive Results

Five years later, the number of deaths from street drug overdoses dropped from around 400 to 290 annually, and the number of new HIV cases caused by using dirty needles to inject heroin, cocaine and other illegal substances plummeted from nearly 1,400 in 2000 to about 400 in 2006, according to a report released recently by the Cato Institute, a Washington, D.C, libertarian think tank.

The success of drug decriminalization in Portugalhttp://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/03/14/portugalhttp://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/03/14/portugal

In 2001, Portugal became the only EU-member state to decriminalize drugs, a distinction which continues through to the present.

Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?

The question is, does the new policy work? At the time, critics in the poor, socially conservative and largely Catholic nation said decriminalizing drug possession would open the country to "drug tourists" and exacerbate Portugal's drug problem; the country had some of the highest levels of hard-drug use in Europe. But the recently released results of a report commissioned by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, suggest otherwise.

The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

 

[trainspotter]

One ecstasy tablet in her husband's pocket potentially spells the end of a political career. Meanwhile, millions of people suck back more damaging (legal) tobacco to their hearts discontent causing massive economic and personal hardship.

The irony is heartbreakingly irrefutable.

Alcohol destroys many lives and makes sane men abhorrent.

Hahhahahahha ....... I just googled this and got a Lesbian, Christian and Cannibalism site .......... maybe I am not that bad afterall??????

 

[Mofra]

Hahhahahahha ....... I just googled this and got a Lesbian, Christian and Cannibalism site .......... maybe I am not that bad afterall??????

Link please :

 

[Calliope]

Link please :

There's your link;

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&xhr...sane+men+abhorrent.&pbx=1&fp=b7db3a7b1e85d34d

 

[Calliope]

The rodents have joined the war on drugs;

FORGET sniffer dogs, crack teams of mice are being trained to detect bombers and drugs couriers at airports.

The sniffer rodents are then hidden in airport scanners, ready to raise the alarm.

The detector has been built by Israeli researchers who say it is more accurate than using dogs, pat downs and x-ray machines.

It looks like a metal detector or full-body scanner, but one side of it houses three concealed cartridges, each containing eight specially trained mice.

The animals work four-hour shifts, milling around in an allocated cartridge while sniffing air pumped in from outside.

When they pick up traces of explosives or drugs, they flee to a side chamber, triggering an alarm, New Scientist reports.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/ipad/mice-that-can-trap-terrorists/story-fn6br97j-1225999628199

 

[Sean K]

Mexico, at the mercy of drug cartels, funded by Western desire, is on it's knees.

Something has to change.

The desire will not go away.


Nuevo Laredo police chief gunned down, Mexican authorities say
By Mariano Castillo, CNN

February 3, 2011 -- Updated 2146 GMT

(CNN) -- The director of public security in the border city of Nuevo Laredo, Mexico, was gunned down Wednesday night, officials said, though details of the incident remained scarce.

Gen. Manuel Farfan Carreola, who served as police chief, was shot near his office by unknown assailants, said Everardo Sanchez, a spokesman for Mexico's attorney general's office. He had been in the position since a new administration assumed city leadership on January 1.

Rumors of how many others were killed along with the police chief swirled in Nuevo Laredo Thursday, but city officials declined to go on the record with details surrounding the incident. The state government, which is leading the investigation, was expected to hold a news conference Thursday evening.

"Obviously, the news about his death is out, but the circumstances have been in the shadows," said Joe Baeza, a spokesman for the Laredo, Texas, Police Department. The Laredo Police Department keeps in touch with its cross-border colleagues.

The investigation is an ongoing process, Baeza said, though early reports that have reached his department were that five of Farfan's security team were killed in the shooting.

The Laredo Police Department received several reports of sporadic gunfire on the Mexican side of the border, possibly related to the fallout of the killing, Baeza said.
"There's reported instability on the Mexican side," he said.

Nuevo Laredo is one of the battlegrounds that is being contested by rival drug cartels. The Gulf cartel and its former enforcers, Los Zetas, have been fighting over the territory and its lucrative smuggling routes. The Sinaloa cartel also has been fighting for years to get a foothold in the area.