CSS - Clean Seas Seafood

[exgeo]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Toyota Tsusho to enter tuna farming business
Saturday 11th September, 05:08 AM JST

TOKYO ””
Toyota Tsusho Corp said Friday it will jointly start business with Kinki University to farm fully cultured juveniles of bluefin tuna to up to 30 centimeters in length from 6 centimeters to provide them to farmers.

Toyota Tsusho, the trading arm of Toyota Motor Corp, will use know-how of the university which succeeded in fully culturing juveniles of the tuna in 2002 for the first time in the world and supply the grown juveniles to tuna farmers. The company will raise juveniles provided by the university at a subsidiary in the city of Goto, Nagasaki Prefecture.

 

[Bigukraine]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

The newspapers have incorrect information, probably due to a typo somewhere along the way. The ASX announcement makes sense (although it's severely dodgy).

I had the same suspicion about them selling them off the back of a truck. We know that this company is not honest or ethical, so it wouldn't be out of character.

And thats how a lot of "the good old boys" of fishing back in the day made their initial fortunes...... it went a bit like this:

1) have quota/lic for say 30 ton... catch 30t

2)sell to waiting entity in ocean for agreed discount.

3) see step 1

4)see step2

5)see step 1

6) now don't want to get to greedy this season better go back to port and sell this 30t and meet the quota/lic

 

[sashimi]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Oh !!!!


If only everyone knew the truth.................................................................
but not likely to happen

 

[James Douglas]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

If you look at page number 56 of the financial report for the 12 months Ended 30 June 2010 it states "The CRC will make $11.1 million available for the first three years. In July 2010 the Company exercised the option to participate for further four years. The CRC agrrement will make a further $14.8 available for the next four years"

Does anyone know how this works? Later down it says "The company will provide an in-kind contribution in the form of staff and infrastrusture for the research work. The agrreement expects this to be $5.475 million over the first three years and $7.3 million for the subsequent four years" So the company's R&D is being paid for by the government?

The company also estimates that its biological assets at 6/30/10 are worth $24,400,731, and total liabilities are $10,995,000. Seems to me that the company should be able to last at least two more seasons. Even with cash of only $5,803,000 at 6/30/10.

Obviously the company has not been forthcoming/dishonest with their shareholders, but the predictions of its demise might be a little premature.

 

[ben.lane]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

I agree with James it's premeture to predict their demise.
Look at it this way how much tuna if eaten around the world a year?
If Futuna blue are predicting that they will be able to produce 500,000 tuna a year. You have kyokuyo president predicting that they will produce 1000 metric Tons of tuna a year by 2015. How much is consumed? Tin tuna, cat food, sushi Ect. I think theres alot of room in the market for clean seas. if it takes pressure of the wild stock as well it a bit of a win. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Sdajii]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

I agree with James it's premeture to predict their demise.
Look at it this way how much tuna if eaten around the world a year?
If Futuna blue are predicting that they will be able to produce 500,000 tuna a year. You have kyokuyo president predicting that they will produce 1000 metric Tons of tuna a year by 2015. How much is consumed? Tin tuna, cat food, sushi Ect. I think theres alot of room in the market for clean seas. if it takes pressure of the wild stock as well it a bit of a win. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Tinned tuna, cat food, etc, is produced at a tiny fraction of the cost that CSS could ever dream of.

 

[ben.lane]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Tinned tuna, cat food, etc, is produced at a tiny fraction of the cost that CSS could ever dream of.

So what your saying sdajii that nobody should bother. The examples I have given my be poor but there is a profitable market for CSS in tuna sales to Asia. The wild fish stock are stuffed from over fishing. japan are the biggest consumer of tuna. so what will happen to the price of tuna when there is no wild fish left?

 

[Sdajii]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

So what your saying sdajii that nobody should bother. The examples I have given my be poor but there is a profitable market for CSS in tuna sales to Asia. The wild fish stock are stuffed from over fishing. japan are the biggest consumer of tuna. so what will happen to the price of tuna when there is no wild fish left?

Hehe

One of the things required to produce one kilogram of farmed tuna is many kilograms of wild fish. You take the cheap fish and feed it to the tuna. If there are no wild fish left I think the last of our concerns will be feeding meat to an animal to produce less meat than we started with.

The success of tuna fishing relies on a very strong demand for a premium product. If we truly face a global food crisis and lack of fish, then yes, nobody should bother farming tuna. Economically there just might be a chance for a tuna farm... maybe... but not if it is run by the likes of those running CSS. All they will do is make money at the expense of naive people attempting to make in investment. I am growing very doubtful that tuna farming has any real future, but I lost the doubt about CSS some time ago.

 

[James Douglas]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

I don't think the issue is whether or not there will be demand. The Japanese have already de facto said they are willing to kill every wild tuna for their voracious appettite. They are also willing to pay exhorbinant amounts of money to continue with this habit. The issue is will CSS have enough resources/cash in order for the complete process to turn profitable. If CSS doesn't, some other company will continue to work on the process until it is commercially feasible. My previous post was to point out that CSS should be abe to have at least one more season trying to raise a commercially viable product. If not the company needs additional capital in order to survive. Or another company may want to purchase their facitilites. I think the predictions of their demise are not quite as black and white as some of the other posts have suggested. That being said, management does have a credibility issue they need to deal with.

 

[Sdajii]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

That's absolutely true, the demand will be there, but it is only going to get more expensive to produce these things, and CSS hasn't even been able to do it, at any cost, let alone economically.

To say they have a credibility issue is a tremendous understatement. How anyone could want to invest in a project which is probably impossible, run by people who are clearly dishonest and will stab you in the back to make a dollar for themselves... it's beyond me.

 

[James Douglas]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

With the current information that is available it is reasonable to come to the conclusion that the project is currently uneconomical. But that also assumes that no progress will be made in food sources and processes that could lead to profitability. Once again, I think eventually Tuna farming will be a very profitable business, primarily because the consumer appears to not be price sensitive. Whether or not Clean Seas will be the one who comercializes this process is the question. Certainly they have had failures and don't have excess capital, so next season is critical. But to write them off before one more attempt might turn out to be ignorant.

 

[Sdajii]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

...to write them off before one more attempt might turn out to be ignorant.

How many attempts do we wait through before we stop being ignorant?

The only way I can see it being economical is by getting them on to land-based feed, but even that isn't going to be the cheapest thing in the world. It is possibly impossible, or at best it will post new challenges and require a lot of problem solving which will take time. I don't need to remind you what CSS's track record with problem solving is like.

In best case scenario (extremely unlikely to put it lightly) they'll eventually get there, but only after several more years of sucking many millions of dollars out of naive investors along the way. If profits are ever made it will only be after several years of losses, so the time to invest in CSS is probably never, but at best is not for several years, other than perhaps quick in and out trading, but since CSS seem to like insider trading you'll be competing against them, making it a tricky game to play.

 

[sashimi]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

In order to starve of failure,..................
It seems to me that both Australian and European efforts have fallen in behind the intellectual property right owned by the Japanese Kinki University effort and broadened their effort to include northern bluefin tuna.

As most of you know, The Kinki group already have tuna on the supermarket shelves.

 

[kingkev]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

SP heading in the wrong direction again today..............are we about to get some unwanted announcements again or is this just "Situation normal" with this crowd?

Hopefully brooding stock should be giving us something to think about shortly and hopefully the news is not in the negative...............it;s about time some good news on this stock came around and send the sp in the right direction

 

[WiseMum]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

i haven't checked back here since around May. i figured it would sort itself out one way or another in the next 6 months.... and here we are, 6 months later and i'm discovering that everything old is new again. you all must be exhausted.

 

[James Douglas]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Did anyone read the company presentation? Very little cash burn for the period covered! I still think they have one more year to spawn Tuna and get them in the pens for growout. I would not be suprised that if the growout is successful, they sell more stock anyways and dilute existing shareholders again. But it does seem like they have strengthened their R&D with tighter relations with their partners and better focus.

 

[kingkev]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

I agree............the coming season is going to be a make or break season. The R&D team is hopefully going to bring in some half decent news and the grow-out is going to achieve better than expected results this time.

This is probably going to be their last chance before all investors jump ship and I believe they know that. Albeit the share dillutions will continue the long-time holders will hopefully be rewarded. Too much money to lose to not be a success.

Here's to hoping

 

[ben.lane]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Did you guys read the other presentations hagan family have taken the stock holding from I think 41 percent to 26 precent. that doesn't make thing look good for the future business if the directors are slowly bailing out. Hope this isn't the case for the future of the southern bluefin tuna. their are only 8% left in the wild stock left compared to when they started fishing for them.

Cheers ben

 

[James Douglas]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Their ownership percentage went down when they did the secondary share sale. They did not sell any shares, just more shares were issued so their percentage of ownership went down. Means very little in the larger context of the story.

 

[brendoz]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

does anyone have any fresh news?

nothing regarding this seasons spawning has been listed in the announcements- and unfortunately i have the belief in CSS that no news is NOT good news!

i choose to hold. my holding is not enough to want to sell anyway, and, while i am starting to sway more towards the ever increasing posts regarding a lack of future within the industry, i would love to see tuna farming become a profitable solution!