Does Gillard inspire confidence?

[-Bevo-]

And in news today

Asylum seeker boat intercepted
http://www.smh.com.au/national/asylum-seeker-boat-intercepted-20101024-16z5f.html

Media must have got sick of typing an article for everytime a boat arrives, I think they use a template now just change afew numbers around always the same "Authorities have intercepted a boat carrying blah blah blah".

 

[IFocus]

Most Afghans coming to Oz are Hazara

Afghans in Australia
The Afghans who have been arriving in Australia by boat since late 1999 are largely of
Hazara background, although some are former residents of Iran fleeing the threat of forced
repatriation, and a small minority are anti-Taliban Pushtuns or members of other persecuted
ethnic groups. Most of the Hazaras are young men, driven from their homes and families by
concerted pressure applied by the Taliban, acting in concert with people smuggling networks
and elements of the Pakistani state. Faced with the threat of the forced seizure of their lands
and sequestration of their assets, they are casuistically offered a ‘safe way out’ in exchange
for cash payments, with the Taliban, the smugglers, and the Pakistani groups all taking a
cut. The cash in question typically comprises the pooled life savings of elders within a
lineage, who recognise that it is the young men of military age in the lineage, the bearers of
its future identity, who are in greatest danger. These young men are trucked to Karachi,
flown to Indonesia, and then transported by boat to Australian islands and reefs close to the
Indonesian archipelago. Most have had to leave wives and young children behind.
Given

This is quite a good article for any one really interested

http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/docs/resources/reports/malley-afghan-2.pdf

 

[Julia]

They ascaping from the firepower of our troops over there.

Oh, for god's sake, explod. Are you suggesting that, before the invasion of the coalition (which, for the record, I was totally against) these people were completely happy with their way of life? Hardly likely, given the extremities of the Taliban rule.

Noco makes a reasonable point: why should young Australians be dying in Afghanistan while their own young blokes of a similar age are refusing to fight the Taliban?

It's all very nice to attribute to human beings the best possible motives, but it seems this sentiment can blind you to basic reality.

 

[noco]

Oh, for god's sake, explod. Are you suggesting that, before the invasion of the coalition (which, for the record, I was totally against) these people were completely happy with their way of life? Hardly likely, given the extremities of the Taliban rule.

Noco makes a reasonable point: why should young Australians be dying in Afghanistan while their own young blokes of a similar age are refusing to fight the Taliban?

It's all very nice to attribute to human beings the best possible motives, but it seems this sentiment can blind you to basic reality.

Well spoken Julia. For explod to state the Afghans are escaping the fire power of the Australians is a load of 'CRAP'. I would call them cowards or in Australian terms 'DINGOS'. Send them home with a white feather tatooed on a prominent place on their body.

 

[nioka]

Well spoken Julia. For explod to state the Afghans are escaping the fire power of the Australians is a load of 'CRAP'. I would call them cowards or in Australian terms 'DINGOS'. Send them home with a white feather tatooed on a prominent place on their body.

I'll second the motion. Accept the children on a temp. basis. Send the men back to stand up for themselves. In reverse I'd expect to be in my home country doing what I could to rectify the situationr sent back for that reason. The fact that they are not means that they wouldnt make good Aussie citizens anyway.

 

[Mofra]

Under the Howard government, the arrangement with Nauru worked well for both countries. It's purely political that Gillard et al are refusing to recommission the centre there.

If Nauru signed the UNCHR they may be a rethink.

They prefer to spend more gazillions of taxpayer funds in building new centres on mainland Australia, much to the dislike of many Australians in the proposed areas.

Economically it benefits us more to have the processing centres on the Australian mainland than it does to build centres off shore and staff these centres with foreign nationals. I have heard of at least two communities that are trying to get processing/holding centres build within their municipality due to the economic benefits.

Both sides of the political spectrum are merely grandstanding on the issue.

 

[Mofra]

In reverse I'd expect to be in my home country doing what I could to rectify the situationr sent back for that reason. The fact that they are not means that they wouldnt make good Aussie citizens anyway.

.. and how'd that work out for the Jews in 1938?

If I had a choice between death and refugee status elsewhere, I wouldn't be choosing death.

 

[nioka]

.. and how'd that work out for the Jews in 1938?

If I had a choice between death and refugee status elsewhere, I wouldn't be choosing death.

You are comparing apples with oranges. Had Australian forces been operating in Germany alongside American troops I would have expected the jews to stay and fight along side them too.

If you want to compare the jewish situation then maybe our new arrivals will end up treating us in the same way the jews are treating the Arabs in THEIR homeland.

 

[todster]

I'll second the motion. Accept the children on a temp. basis. Send the men back to stand up for themselves. In reverse I'd expect to be in my home country doing what I could to rectify the situationr sent back for that reason. The fact that they are not means that they wouldnt make good Aussie citizens anyway.

It's pretty easy to sit in good old Oz and say this is what I would do but after the Russians the Taliban and the Yanks have poohed in your back yard you might think different.
Send them to Curtain if you can live there for 3 years without going nuts I would be surprised.
It's 40c up here today and still October bring on summer.

 

[Julia]

If Nauru signed the UNCHR they may be a rethink.

The Nauruan government clearly said they would be happy to sign if it meant they could have the detention centre functioning again. Labor still found it politically unpalatable, presumably on the petty basis that they would be adopting the Coalition's solution. They prefer to waste more taxpayer funds on new centres, while Nauru lies empty.

Didn't the Libs have another processing or detention centre as well? Some other Pacific island?

 

[Mofra]

You are comparing apples with oranges. Had Australian forces been operating in Germany alongside American troops I would have expected the jews to stay and fight along side them too.

1938 was before the war - no allies were there in 1938. You really think they would have stood a chance? Wow.

I think a little more learning and a little less idealogical waffle might help with perspective.

 

[nioka]

1938 was before the war - no allies were there in 1938. You really think they would have stood a chance? Wow.

I think a little more learning and a little less idealogical waffle might help with perspective.

I actually was around at the time. It was a time for the jews to depart, no doubt about that.

That is exactly why I said that you are comparing apples with oranges. There ARE forces doing their fighting in Afghanistan. They SHOULD be there helping.

 

[Mofra]

That is exactly why I said that you are comparing apples with oranges. There ARE forces doing their fighting in Afghanistan. They SHOULD be there helping.

Our mission is to train security forces in one province, not a seek & destroy role to weed out the Taliban. That of course is besides the point - you never specified Afganistan in your posts previously.

In any case, do you think it's realistic to ask entire civilian populations to take up arms against a well-organised aggressor? Should we start arming the civilian population and flood the country with weapons? Does that also mean we should have a military presence in any country that have a refugee problem that involves some seeking asylum in Australia?

 

[Julia]

Labor continues to lose support to the Greens.
Coalition down one point but still ahead on 2pp and primary vote 43 to 34.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/10/25/3046900.htm

 

[nioka]

- you never specified Afganistan in your posts previously.

I was replying to a post that WAS talking about Afghans. Check back. I'm sure they would be found a job unless they are actually Taliban supporters. In that case we don't want them anyway.

 

[Mofra]

I was replying to a post that WAS talking about Afghans. Check back. I'm sure they would be found a job unless they are actually Taliban supporters. In that case we don't want them anyway.

"Found a job" - you mind explaining what you mean by that? I hope you're still not hoping to press-gang civilians into armed service.
Given the struggle Westren Forces have in trying not to appear like the enemy, I don't see how a foreign military force conscripting the male population into forced armed servitude will help the situation in Afganistan or abroad.

In any case, the Pashtuns (the only real sympathisers with the Taliban) are not the regional majority and even large numbers of them have to be forced/blackmailed into support for the Taliban.

 

[noco]

Labor continues to lose support to the Greens.
Coalition down one point but still ahead on 2pp and primary vote 43 to 34.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/10/25/3046900.htm

Yes Julia, and the latest is, Labor is plotting to eliminate the Greens. They are terribly worried about the momentum the Greens are receiving. I stated some time ago, Labor would rue the day they got into bed with the Greens. As Tony Abbott commented recently,"Labor might be in Government but the Greens are in power.
Nevertheless, when the true colours of the Greens are exposed, I believe they will finish up like the Democrats; a party of the past.

 

[nioka]

"Found a job" - you mind explaining what you mean by that? I hope you're still not hoping to press-gang civilians into armed service. .

If they had to be forced into fighting to save their own country then we shouldn't want them here either. We have enough of the white feather brigade here now.

 

[pedalofogus]

Yes Julia, and the latest is, Labor is plotting to eliminate the Greens. They are terribly worried about the momentum the Greens are receiving. I stated some time ago, Labor would rue the day they got into bed with the Greens. As Tony Abbott commented recently,"Labor might be in Government but the Greens are in power.
Nevertheless, when the true colours of the Greens are exposed, I believe they will finish up like the Democrats; a party of the past.

Totally agree. The Greens will eventually become too cocky and will show their true colours. I don't think the average Australian that voted for the Greens has actually been to their website and had a look at their outlandish policy positions, and that has worked in the Greens favour because the voters don't know their whole 'story'. But once they get a bit of power, they will start introducing these silly policies and the voters of Australia will laugh them out of politics.

In the meantime, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them form a sort-of coalition with Labor in an attempt to fight off the Liberal-National coalition. But when the :fan watch Labor cut them (just like they did to Kevin07)

 

[Julia]

Yes Julia, and the latest is, Labor is plotting to eliminate the Greens. They are terribly worried about the momentum the Greens are receiving. I stated some time ago, Labor would rue the day they got into bed with the Greens. As Tony Abbott commented recently,"Labor might be in Government but the Greens are in power.

Much as I agree with that comment of Mr Abbott, I'm puzzled as to how Labor might 'eliminate the Greens'.
Given the Greens are on a rising tide at present, actually taking votes from Labor, probably the government (and the opposition) need to ask themselves why this is?

My suggestion would be that, despite some of the utterly wacky policies of the Greens, they are seen by some of the electorate as honest and able to stick with their beliefs.

This is in absolute contrast to both Labor and the Coalition whose flaky policies will be discarded in a minute if so doing will offer even temporary political advantage.

Bob Brown as leader (again putting aside his unacceptable ideas) seems to be a reasonable person, willing to engage in genuine exchange/discussion, never gets hysterical or particularly abusive.

It's just possible that Australians over all are damn sick of the hypocrisy of both of the main parties and will turn to what they see as the authenticity of the Greens, even if some of their policies are not to their liking.

I might be quite wrong, but would be interested in others' ideas about the rise and rise of the Greens.