Storm Financial Group

[Solly]

Double gearing, risking the family home, all the money sunk into one highly risky investment strategy that was going to make piles of money if things went well, but incur massive losses if things went bad.

bunyip, I believe that many Stormers were of the opinion that safeguards and strategies were in place to ensure that their homes were not at risk and for the model to fail the world would be in total and complete financial meltdown. One Stormer also tried to explain to me what a "Clayton's Debt" was, at the end of the conservation, I was of the opinion that they still had a debt, as evidenced by what actions subsequently followed.

 

[bunyip]

bunyip, I believe that many Stormers were of the opinion that safeguards and strategies were in place to ensure that their homes were not at risk and for the model to fail the world would be in total and complete financial meltdown. One Stormer also tried to explain to me what a "Clayton's Debt" was, at the end of the conservation, I was of the opinion that they still had a debt, as evidenced by what actions subsequently followed.

Yes, I think you're right about them believing there were safeguards in place. Which goes to show that rather than accepting what you're told at face value, you'd better be very thorough in checking the facts for yourself.

Caveat emptor

 

[Julia]

I wonder if they've seriously considered the can of worms that would be opened if the government was to set a precedent by handing over billions of dollars to a group of disgruntled investors.

Of course for the taxpayers of Australia to compensate Stormers would be quite ridiculous. Moral hazard at its height!

Others just can't seem to accept the reality of the situation at all, and are coming up with money grabbing tactics to extract money from anyone they think might pay up. They only reason they haven't gone after the real culprit is because they see no prospect of getting any money out of him.

Well, perhaps they need to reconsider going after Manny for compensation.
There's an article in today's "Sunday Mail" about the forthcoming marriage of Manny's youngest daughter which is alleged to be costing around $100,000 and includes a wedding party of 20 people.
Mr and Mrs Cassimatis will be celebrating a triumphant return to Townsville for the event.

So, not only is Manny insensitive to the losses incurred by his inappropriate advice, he's now going to fling his own personal survival in the face of investors in the most public way.

I'd suggest Stormers direct their anger where it belongs.

 

[Grey Ghost]

Well, perhaps they need to reconsider going after Manny for compensation.
There's an article in today's "Sunday Mail" about the forthcoming marriage of Manny's youngest daughter which is alleged to be costing around $100,000 and includes a wedding party of 20 people.
Mr and Mrs Cassimatis will be celebrating a triumphant return to Townsville for the event.

So, not only is Manny insensitive to the losses incurred by his inappropriate advice, he's now going to fling his own personal survival in the face of investors in the most public way.

I say this development adds plenty of weight to the suspicions of quite a few that Manny has got a considerable amount of money stashed away.

I'd suggest Stormers direct their anger where it belongs.

Details of an event like this would be hard to keep secret if its held anywhere in Townsville. There may be an opportunity for those who want to take up discussions with Manny personally if they want to attend such an event. :bbat:

 

[-Bevo-]

I say this development adds plenty of weight to the suspicions of quite a few that Manny has got a considerable amount of money stashed away.

I think that suspicion would probably be right, I just wonder how he sleeps at night.

 

[bunyip]

I think that suspicion would probably be right, I just wonder how he sleeps at night.

You assume he has a conscience!

 

[-Bevo-]

You assume he has a conscience!

Oh no Bunyip, I think I mention this before but I had an Uncle who worked in finance here in Townsville manny years ago he was approached by EC for a job, my uncle refused to work for him his words were he's a con man, i was just pointing out the picture if he had a stash of money under the mattress might make uncomfortable sleep

 

[Solly]

"Litigator dumps SICAG chair from CBA scheme"

"Slater & Gordon has cast off the SICAG chairman from its Storm resolution scheme.

... a complaint from a member of SICAG against Scattini."

More by Kate Kachor in Investor Daily here;

http://www.investordaily.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/id/style/9260.htm

 

[bunyip]

Oh no Bunyip, I think I mention this before but I had an Uncle who worked in finance here in Townsville manny years ago he was approached by EC for a job, my uncle refused to work for him his words were he's a con man, i was just pointing out the picture if he had a stash of money under the mattress might make uncomfortable sleep

I didn't really think you were assuming he has a conscience - I was simply making the point that he does not.

I'm sure that some of his pals in SICAG would disagree with me though.

 

[Judd]

I spent some time yesterday afternoon with my Stormer mate. He's got some big things to consider at the moment about where he'll be heading in the future. I believe he's coming to the realisation that his original expectations of restoration will not be attained. And he's making the lifestyle adjustments for the future now. I have a full understanding of the the debt and gearing levels he was exposed to in the Storm model including the amount of fees and interest that was paid. I understand his disbelief in losing his capital and virtually his lifetime of effort and savings to now only to be straddled with debit.

He gets upset with being painted as being greedy, I know the modest amount he was hoping to draw down on from his structure to live on. His dream was to live a life without having to rely on government handouts and have a secure retirement.

I asked why he wasn't concerned about the Storm strategy, to me the large debt and the gearing would have flagged a risk. His reply was he trusted, Storm and the banks especially after having a long association with them. His core skills are not in the finance or investing area so he said he engaged professionals in the field. What do you say to that ? It's hard to be hypercritical of that decision, especially when you are sitting opposite each other having a coffee. He's trying to understand why he's being punished so severely for placing his trust in others that has left him in this predicament. Life's very tough, I suppose Stormers who are backed into a corner are willing to fight and try anything to improve their position when things go sour. I'd do the same.

Every Stormer's situation is different and I suppose what ever choices are made depends on the individual's circumstances. If Tony Raggatt's report is accurate about varying opinions within SICAG, I believe that this would be an expected variation within a group. My mate's not in SICAG but I do believe the group has been of huge benefit and support to some who have been through some very dark days. I don't know if EC has any influence in the group or if it would be of any significance with such a wide cross section of members, opinions and backgrounds.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

It is those, such as your mate, who I feel for. No real idea how to invest, placing trust in those who supposedly are there to protect their money; no understanding of what is risk.

And still it is beyond my comprehension. Yes, I've lost money as have heaps of others; yet having sweated blood to get out of debt with a bank, I would never put the roof over our head at risk. Never - and I don't give a stuff about what the experts would say about releasing equity; it's my home, my sanctuary, my piece of turf.

And still Storm was able to convince people into doing so. I just find it so difficult to understand why people believed that such an approach and incurring debt in spades was a valid approach.

Some posters go banging on about 1987 but 1970 to 1973 was just as bad and from then on until 1983 or so. Go even further back to the mid 60's and look at the credit crunch. Quite a number of Storm investors are of such an age that these events were not ancient history - they actually lived through them but still they went via Storm as if those documented events never happened. Oh yes, Manny will take care of it.

I cannot express it in words, Solly, but in my mind's eye, I can see. Yep, I can get a glimmer of understanding where your friend was coming from.

As for those who aspire to be self-funded retirees, what is it? A badge of honour? So much that everytime I see a gray haired couple walking down the street with smile on their face and "Self-Funded Retiree" tattooed on their respective foreheads, I must genuflect and stew rose petals in their path? There is no such thing as a self-funded retiree. You, as I, will still use Medciare, you, as I, will still use the subsidy from the Pharmaceutical Scheme (You try paying $2000 per month for Betaferon), you, as I, will use public hospitals instead of paying $1000+ per day for that accommodation.

As for those suggesting that taxpayers should compensate them for their misfortune - rotate on it son. Should such compensation happen, I will make my best endeavours to reduce my tax to as close as possible to zero without compromising my life-style but nevertheless to the detriment of others.

 

[pilots]

It is those, such as your mate, who I feel for. No real idea how to invest, placing trust in those who supposedly are there to protect their money; no understanding of what is risk.

And still it is beyond my comprehension. Yes, I've lost money as have heaps of others; yet having sweated blood to get out of debt with a bank, I would never put the roof over our head at risk. Never - and I don't give a stuff about what the experts would say about releasing equity; it's my home, my sanctuary, my piece of turf.

And still Storm was able to convince people into doing so. I just find it so difficult to understand why people believed that such an approach and incurring debt in spades was a valid approach.

Some posters go banging on about 1987 but 1970 to 1973 was just as bad and from then on until 1983 or so. Go even further back to the mid 60's and look at the credit crunch. Quite a number of Storm investors are of such an age that these events were not ancient history - they actually lived through them but still they went via Storm as if those documented events never happened. Oh yes, Manny will take care of it.

I cannot express it in words, Solly, but in my mind's eye, I can see. Yep, I can get a glimmer of understanding where your friend was coming from.

As for those who aspire to be self-funded retirees, what is it? A badge of honour? So much that everytime I see a gray haired couple walking down the street with smile on their face and "Self-Funded Retiree" tattooed on their respective foreheads, I must genuflect and stew rose petals in their path? There is no such thing as a self-funded retiree. You, as I, will still use Medciare, you, as I, will still use the subsidy from the Pharmaceutical Scheme (You try paying $2000 per month for Betaferon), you, as I, will use public hospitals instead of paying $1000+ per day for that accommodation.

As for those suggesting that taxpayers should compensate them for their misfortune - rotate on it son. Should such compensation happen, I will make my best endeavours to reduce my tax to as close as possible to zero without compromising my life-style but nevertheless to the detriment of others.

No one at any time was going to protect their money, they was all SALES PEOPLE, the more they sold the more they made, THEY ARE STILL DOING IT TO DAY. Tough but thats life.

 

[bunyip]

Well, perhaps they need to reconsider going after Manny for compensation.
There's an article in today's "Sunday Mail" about the forthcoming marriage of Manny's youngest daughter which is alleged to be costing around $100,000 and includes a wedding party of 20 people.
Mr and Mrs Cassimatis will be celebrating a triumphant return to Townsville for the event.

So, not only is Manny insensitive to the losses incurred by his inappropriate advice, he's now going to fling his own personal survival in the face of investors in the most public way.

I'd suggest Stormers direct their anger where it belongs.

Julia - I believe he'd have put an asset protection plan in place years ago. If so, his assets would be untouchable.
Even if he could be sold up and the money was to go to Storm victims, the few million dollars he may be worth would be too thinly spread to make much difference to the plight of Stormers.
Stormers and their lawyers realise this, which is why they haven't pursued him.

 

[Julia]

Julia - I believe he'd have put an asset protection plan in place years ago. If so, his assets would be untouchable.
Even if he could be sold up and the money was to go to Storm victims, the few million dollars he may be worth would be too thinly spread to make much difference to the plight of Stormers.
Stormers and their lawyers realise this, which is why they haven't pursued him.

I wouldn't know about any asset plan.
However, if he has anything at all which is accessible, I don't think it particularly matters that such an amount would not cover the Stormers' losses. It's the whole twisted principle of simply throwing in the towel and saying 'oh it's no use going after Manny, no matter how much he has saved for himself, because it's easier to go after the banks.'

I find that logic amoral and a perfect encouragement to Manny to do it all again.

 

[Mash]

haven't been here for a while... but had some time to waste so thought I would drop in... yep waste of time.... I'll just go back to preparing to go to court and expose the lies the banks continue to bleet out and the bystanders continue to gobble up....S&G included.... can't wait to see Ralphie and his cohorts on the stand.... be afraid ralphie ...be very afraid..... you can lie to a parliamentary enquiry.... but in a court of law you can't ...well not with out a contempt charge...only hope I get to see you and Manny sharing a cosy little cell.
BTW.... Bunyip glad to hear I get under your skin...ahhh..mission accomplished...ciao for now ..be back when I am next wanting to waste some time.....

 

[Solly]

haven't been here for a while... but had some time to waste so thought I would drop in... yep waste of time.... I'll just go back to preparing to go to court and expose the lies the banks continue to bleet out and the bystanders continue to gobble up....S&G included.... can't wait to see Ralphie and his cohorts on the stand.... be afraid ralphie ...be very afraid..... you can lie to a parliamentary enquiry.... but in a court of law you can't ...well not with out a contempt charge...only hope I get to see you and Manny sharing a cosy little cell.
BTW.... Bunyip glad to hear I get under your skin...ahhh..mission accomplished...ciao for now ..be back when I am next wanting to waste some time.....

Mash, you have made some very direct statements above. I hope you have been able to give ASIC any further details that may be of interest.

As the end of May approaches, I wonder if ASIC has yet found a commercial resolution which it is prepared to recommend to ex-Storm investors.

 

[bunyip]

haven't been here for a while... but had some time to waste so thought I would drop in... yep waste of time.... I'll just go back to preparing to go to court and expose the lies the banks continue to bleet out and the bystanders continue to gobble up....S&G included.... can't wait to see Ralphie and his cohorts on the stand.... be afraid ralphie ...be very afraid..... you can lie to a parliamentary enquiry.... but in a court of law you can't ...well not with out a contempt charge...only hope I get to see you and Manny sharing a cosy little cell.
BTW.... Bunyip glad to hear I get under your skin...ahhh..mission accomplished...ciao for now ..be back when I am next wanting to waste some time.....

Oh, you don't get under my skin at all, Mash. On the contrary, I actually look forward to your posts because they provide good amusement value not only to me but to the others on this forum, as we watch you ranting and raving and making a fool of yourself. As I told Shibby, I've become used to the emotional and abusive rantings of people like you and her. It shows your true character - or lack of it.
It's pretty clear though, that I and other get under your skin, otherwise you wouldn't have resorted to abuse and obnoxious behaviour. Nor would you have sent me that big long personal message several months ago in which you poured out a sob story of how hard your life has been, and all the misfortunes that have come your way.

When it's all said and done, nothing will change the fact that you're the poor little rich girl who wasn't satisfied with 12 millions dollars - the woman who got greedy and wanted more, and ended up losing the lot.
Now you think people should feel sorry for you, and bail out out.

One day you'll grow up....maybe.
In the meantime, please keep posting - I quite enjoy our little stoushes.

 

[bunyip]

I wouldn't know about any asset plan.
However, if he has anything at all which is accessible, I don't think it particularly matters that such an amount would not cover the Stormers' losses. It's the whole twisted principle of simply throwing in the towel and saying 'oh it's no use going after Manny, no matter how much he has saved for himself, because it's easier to go after the banks.'

I find that logic amoral and a perfect encouragement to Manny to do it all again.

I absolutely agree with you, Julia.
But money, not justice, appears to be the main objective in this Storm saga. Accordingly, the banks and the government are being targeted because they're seen as having the capacity to pay.

 

[specialed]

I am really amused that so many here are of the opinion that the Australian taxpayers should not pay for the stormers mistakes - or is that the CBA's. The irony that I'm sure is clear to all is the Australian taxpayer will be paying for it;

Thanks to the CBA, (their participation in the resolution scheme is a clear admission of some fault- or are they just compensating out of sheer generosity) and possibly thanks to Storm (I actually haven’t seen anyone from storm or the company as a whole prosecuted yet), the Australian taxpayer will pay for this mess in the form of an extra 3000 or so people who would have been self funded retirees, who would not have required public housing or public hospital beds, and would have otherwise continued to have private health insurance...etc etc. Has anyone actually bothered to cost all this out.

The CBA is in this as deep as any of the other participants. Their wholesale clearout of staff involved is futher indication of their desire to clear their books and memories of this......

Each time I see my taxes rise I will thank the CBA and think of the small amount that will now be used to pay for those who are now condemmed to the pension.......

 

[specialed]

I will also think of all those who have added to the debate in this forum whose taxes will also be paying for them............

 

[Julia]

I am really amused that so many here are of the opinion that the Australian taxpayers should not pay for the stormers mistakes - or is that the CBA's. The irony that I'm sure is clear to all is the Australian taxpayer will be paying for it;

Thanks to the CBA, (their participation in the resolution scheme is a clear admission of some fault- or are they just compensating out of sheer generosity) and possibly thanks to Storm (I actually haven’t seen anyone from storm or the company as a whole prosecuted yet), the Australian taxpayer will pay for this mess in the form of an extra 3000 or so people who would have been self funded retirees, who would not have required public housing or public hospital beds, and would have otherwise continued to have private health insurance...etc etc. Has anyone actually bothered to cost all this out.

The CBA is in this as deep as any of the other participants. Their wholesale clearout of staff involved is futher indication of their desire to clear their books and memories of this......

Each time I see my taxes rise I will thank the CBA and think of the small amount that will now be used to pay for those who are now condemmed to the pension.......

If you seriously imagine the few extra Storm investors taking up the government pension and related benefits will of itself cause general taxation to rise, you have an even more woeful understanding of the country's economic situation than I'd imagined.
But hey, if it makes you feel good and allows you to pathetically think you are deriving some revenge against your fellow Australians, then I suppose that's up to you. Why you should imagine your fellow Australians owe you anything at all is, however, quite beyond my comprehension.