19 years jail for stealing $40,000

[Garpal Gumnut]

Our justice system may not be perfect, but all these suggestions for hangings, castration, mulitalation and floggings makes me mighty glad we have courts and not mob rule.

Watch this space, it will come brother. Its already available a la carte in Saudi and Iran, courtesy of the courts as well.

gg

 

[WaveSurfer]

Watch this space, it will come brother. Its already available a la carte in Saudi and Iran, courtesy of the courts as well.

gg

Yep. Chemical castration is already in force in some countries.

A few states in the US, Poland, Argentina just off the top of my head.

It will be a way of the future. And rightly so IMO. Do the crime, do the time. Eye for an eye. Whatever you wanna term it.

 

[Julia]

Yep. Chemical castration is already in force in some countries.

A few states in the US, Poland, Argentina just off the top of my head.

It will be a way of the future. And rightly so IMO. Do the crime, do the time. Eye for an eye. Whatever you wanna term it.

I'm not sure if I dare raise a question in the face of so much determination to adopt extreme measures, but wrongful convictions have happened.
Yes, I know this is a hoary old chestnut when you are all filled with so much righteousness about how to deal with criminals, but just recently a bloke who was apparently wrongfully convicted of murder here in Qld, and who has served 15 years, has now been released and will not be retried.

How can you be so sure our police service always gets it right? Or the DPP?

Bad enough to wrongfully imprison someone, but a helluva lot worse to hang them.

 

[WaveSurfer]

I'm not sure if I dare raise a question in the face of so much determination to adopt extreme measures, but wrongful convictions have happened.
Yes, I know this is a hoary old chestnut when you are all filled with so much righteousness about how to deal with criminals, but just recently a bloke who was apparently wrongfully convicted of murder here in Qld, and who has served 15 years, has now been released and will not be retried.

How can you be so sure our police service always gets it right? Or the DPP?

Bad enough to wrongfully imprison someone, but a helluva lot worse to hang them.

Of course. There's also the risk that some will try to take advantage of it and attempt to wrongfully frame others. Certainly can't put anything past some of our fellow beings.

Chemical castration is however reversible. Once the injections stop, the testes will function again.

And I also believe it's a two strikes and you're out in some countries. I'm assuming for that very reason you pointed out above.

I also believe the Argentinean laws are voluntary - the criminal agrees to voluntary undergo the treatment in order to reduce their court sentence.

 

[WaveSurfer]

I'm not sure if I dare raise a question in the face of so much determination to adopt extreme measures, but wrongful convictions have happened.
Yes, I know this is a hoary old chestnut when you are all filled with so much righteousness about how to deal with criminals, but just recently a bloke who was apparently wrongfully convicted of murder here in Qld, and who has served 15 years, has now been released and will not be retried.

How can you be so sure our police service always gets it right? Or the DPP?

Bad enough to wrongfully imprison someone, but a helluva lot worse to hang them.

Looking back over the stack of medical journal articles I used last year for an assignment on this topic, there's a vast majority of the "against argument" that happen to be female. Now that's very interesting indeed considering they are the ones to be at most risk. I would have thought it would be the opposite. Must look into that one.

 

[Julia]

Looking back over the stack of medical journal articles I used last year for an assignment on this topic, there's a vast majority of the "against argument" that happen to be female. Now that's very interesting indeed considering they are the ones to be at most risk. I would have thought it would be the opposite. Must look into that one.

That is indeed interesting. Perhaps something to do with my earlier suggestion that rape isn't much about sex?

 

[bunyip]

That is indeed interesting. Perhaps something to do with my earlier suggestion that rape isn't much about sex?

Rape is about sex all right! Not only sex - there are various other factors at play as well, with control being right up there as one of the prime motivators. But rape is definitely about sex.
In the trial of rapists it frequently comes out that the rapist has had an ongoing problem controlling his sexual lust for women.
For example, Luke Colless, the Brisbane bikeway rapist, has a history of being a peeping tom - looking through the windows of women's bedrooms and bathrooms in the hope of seeing them undressed.
I've heard various other stories of rapists who had histories as sexual perverts before becoming a full-on rapist.
In one case I heard of about ten years back, several women testified that over the years the rapist had engaged in various indecent acts such as putting his hand up their skirts on public transport, grabbing their breasts, making lewd comments of a sexual nature, etc etc.

 

[Happy]

....

That prison doesn't work can be shown by the high rates of recidivism, especially if the offending begins in a very young person.

Removing serious offenders from society is often going to be necessary, but it needs to be accompanied by some constructive programmes.
.....

No disrespect to your opinion, but it would work if after first chance, offender would be removed from society FOR LIFE, with life sentence that would mean life.

 

[IFocus]

I've said it before on this forum, and it usually brings a reaction of 'it wouldn't work here'.
I'll say it again now....If you want to become proficient at something, learn from someone who's already proficient.
There's no better example than Singapore when it comes to crime control. It's one of the safest places in the world, with one of the lowest crime rates.
They don't muck around if you break the law in Singapore - they hit you and they hit you hard.

We should take a leaf out of their book by learning their methods and implementing them here. Our escalating crime rate would quickly be brought under control.
Law abiding citizens would control the streets, not criminals. Our neighbourhoods would be safe again.

Would it be restrictive to live in a society with such no-no-nonsense rules? I don't think so. I've spent time in Singapore. I was free to do the normal things that law abiding citizens do, and I was able to do them in safety.

Weak state politicians both lib and labor love people like you who blame judges and lawyers for the social failures, pass nasty laws give the police more powers out side of the court system etc to prove how tough on crime they are as this wins elections but wont address the issues.

Antoinette Kennedy a judge here in the West (has seen more of lifes rejects than most)just retired spoke on this very subject a number of times pointing out that the court system isn't going to fix social issues.

Your example of Singapore reinforces this fact, an example would be school leavers week does that happen in Singapore do they teach their kids that getting wasted is OK?

 

[So_Cynical]

Your example of Singapore reinforces this fact, an example would be school leavers week does that happen in Singapore do they teach their kids that getting wasted is OK?

Singapore...right up there with Tehran and Harare as global party destinations and great places to have fun You cant have a schoolies or spring break type event in Singapore because as soon as the girls started to get there t1ts out the cops would start splitting there heads open....regardless what there parents teach them.

Singapore...i could never live there, even when im just flying through i feel like i could get arrested just for what im thinking.

 

[bunyip]

Weak state politicians both lib and labor love people like you who blame judges and lawyers for the social failures, pass nasty laws give the police more powers out side of the court system etc to prove how tough on crime they are as this wins elections but wont address the issues.

Antoinette Kennedy a judge here in the West (has seen more of lifes rejects than most)just retired spoke on this very subject a number of times pointing out that the court system isn't going to fix social issues.

Your example of Singapore reinforces this fact, an example would be school leavers week does that happen in Singapore do they teach their kids that getting wasted is OK?

Well you're a smart lad, IFocus - you proved it over on the flying fox thread!!
So what's your solution to our escalating crime rate?

 

[Julia]

Rape is about sex all right! Not only sex - there are various other factors at play as well, with control being right up there as one of the prime motivators. But rape is definitely about sex.
In the trial of rapists it frequently comes out that the rapist has had an ongoing problem controlling his sexual lust for women.
For example, Luke Colless, the Brisbane bikeway rapist, has a history of being a peeping tom - looking through the windows of women's bedrooms and bathrooms in the hope of seeing them undressed.
I've heard various other stories of rapists who had histories as sexual perverts before becoming a full-on rapist.
In one case I heard of about ten years back, several women testified that over the years the rapist had engaged in various indecent acts such as putting his hand up their skirts on public transport, grabbing their breasts, making lewd comments of a sexual nature, etc etc.

If you are asserting that rape is primarily about sex, not domination, violence, and anger toward women, why do only a few men rape, but many have a preoccupation with sex?

If the main motivation was sexual, and the predator was unable to find willing partners, why wouldn't he use a prostitute?
There are plenty of opportunities for any male to satisfy purely sexual desire without the need to use violence or force.

Your anecdotal examples above could all be described as lack of respect toward/anger toward women, and would clearly be a means of intimidation.

Ditto the peeping tom story: you have no way of knowing what he may have been fantasising about whilst doing this.

I've been raped. It was all about anger and the need to dominate and humiliate.

 

[IFocus]

Well you're a smart lad, IFocus - you proved it over on the flying fox thread!!
So what's your solution to our escalating crime rate?

Don't have the answers but do know how violence is escalating in most capital city's on any weekend night thanks to a heavy drinking / chemical combination night out to the point of young women smashing faces of innocents.

Expecting our police to be the punching bag for this behavior is crap when politicians spout about tougher laws when the answer is changing social behavior / environments so the police don't have to put up with this time wasting and risk.

This would require very unpopular laws around containing drinking and removing the environment that allows escalation of anti social behavior / violence.

This would of course would reduce state revenue, back to my point about weak politicians so wont happen far easier to blame the courts make tougher laws get re-elected etc.

No silver bullet and only one example

 

[bunyip]

If you are asserting that rape is primarily about sex, not domination, violence, and anger toward women, why do only a few men rape, but many have a preoccupation with sex?

If the main motivation was sexual, and the predator was unable to find willing partners, why wouldn't he use a prostitute?
There are plenty of opportunities for any male to satisfy purely sexual desire without the need to use violence or force.

Your anecdotal examples above could all be described as lack of respect toward/anger toward women, and would clearly be a means of intimidation.

Ditto the peeping tom story: you have no way of knowing what he may have been fantasising about whilst doing this.

I've been raped. It was all about anger and the need to dominate and humiliate.

Julia - Rather than argue the point with you on here, I'll be contacting you by private correspondence to answer the points you've raised.

 

[bunyip]

Weak state politicians both lib and labor love people like you who blame judges and lawyers for the social failures, pass nasty laws give the police more powers out side of the court system etc to prove how tough on crime they are as this wins elections but wont address the issues.

Antoinette Kennedy a judge here in the West (has seen more of lifes rejects than most)just retired spoke on this very subject a number of times pointing out that the court system isn't going to fix social issues.

Your example of Singapore reinforces this fact, an example would be school leavers week does that happen in Singapore do they teach their kids that getting wasted is OK?

Interesting to see you snipe at me for putting forward concrete suggestions for bringing the crime under control, but when I ask you for your solution to the escalating crime rate, you admit that you don't have the answers.

As the saying goes, anyone can pull down a house, but it's far more difficult to build a better one in its place.

And just for the record, I didn't say, suggest or imply that judges and lawyers are to blame for the social failures. So how about you try to avoid misinterpreting or misrepresenting what I said, and focus instead on what I actually did say.

 

[Happy]

...

As the saying goes, anyone can pull down a house, but it's far more difficult to build a better one in its place.

...

My solution is simple, especially that we face or have ovrerpopulation already.

Criminals, for whatever reason should be stopped having opportunity to commit crime, full stop.

(by total exclusion, or physical elimination - with probably use of spare parts to recover some good from bad person)

Selective breeding seems to make sense too, as it has some good results in other species.

 

[newbie trader]

I'm sure many of you in this thread as well as the 'sentancing in Australia is a disgrace' thread would like to see the defence council do this to their client...
(even though its a fictional movie it still makes a few valid points of which im sure many of you agree)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZjgCK1_tAY

 

[Happy]

...
I've been raped. It was all about anger and the need to dominate and humiliate.

Julia,
Sorry to hear you had to go through this terrible experience, that affected you and marked your life for life.
To tell the truth I did not know how could I react to your post.

Sex must have been part of it, as you could be only beaten or just murdered.

When I watch films about animals, violence is part of their existence, suppose being part of animal kingdom, part of us is affected by atavism.

After all democracy is artificial addition to our society, it sounds and looks good on surface, but even democratic majority is effectively power over minority.

However, we should put more emphasis on upholding rights of majority over criminal minority (while they are minority).

Punishment should be much more severe than crime and sentence in opening post is fine by me.

 

[bunyip]

One of the stories on tonight's TV news was of a man who killed his partner because she refused to pick him up from the pub. He was so angry by the time he got home that he bashed and strangled her and left her for dead. She died as a result of her injuries.
So he was sentenced to spend the rest of his life in prison, right? Wrong!
OK, he got 20 years then? Wrong again! 10 years? No! 8 years? 6 years? 5 years? Hell no - our hero got 3 years in the slammer, that's right - 3 years for a brutal killing! And you can bet he'll be out much sooner if he behaves himself while he's in there.

As disgusted as I am at such a light sentence for this brutal crime, it wouldn't have surprised me if some smartarse lawyer had got him off scot free on a minor technicality. There are plenty of morally deficient lawyers who would do exactly that if given the chance, and all to often they find a loophole in our legal system to allow them to do it.

Earlier in this thread I was critical of incompetent judges and unscrupulous lawyers, and our legal system generally. In response I got an idiotic post from some character who told me I should go and live in China if I didn't like our legal system. And from some other character I got a response that was almost as silly, telling me that I was blaming judges and lawyers for the social failures.

Well I won't be going to China to live - I'll be staying right here and continuing to publicly criticise our pathetic legal system that all too often makes decisions and gives sentences that are an apology for justice. And I'll be continuing to pressure politicians to make changes so that the system starts doing what it's meant to do, which is punish criminals and get justice for the victims. There are too many cases these days where that's just not happening.

And no, I'm not blaming judges and lawyers for the social failures that lead to these crimes in the first place. But I'm certainly blaming incompetent judges and unscrupulous lawyers for fostering a nonchalant attitude towards the legal system by the more irresponsible members of the community.
One of the objectives of the legal system is to act as a deterrent to irresponsible and criminal behaviour. But what sort of deterrent is it when violent crime brings only light punishment, or in some cases no punishment at all?

Our legal system needs a complete overhaul - there are too many cases these days where it's just not achieving the objectives it was designed to achieve.

 

[GumbyLearner]

Our legal system needs a complete overhaul - there are too many cases these days where it's just not achieving the objectives it was designed to achieve.

I agree.

Alan Bond should have got 30,000 years according to YOUR calculations. Don't get me wrong I agree!
Alan Bond should have never done a SEEK ad but hey that's life. They thought he was worth it. A guy steals 40K and Alan Bond bankrupts communities to the tune of billions. Who you gunna call? Conservative voting carers? Labor voting palm greasers? Green voting grandstanders?

I would vote for Lord Sutch if he ran a ticket in Australia.