Flying Fox Wars

[Sdajii]

If you have evidence of these claims post them, I refer you to my previous post about opinions..........sigh

What do you want evidence of? Damaging vermin being protected? Horses have already been discussed at length here, and several species of deer are protected in Australia (we don't have any native deer, or any hooved animals, and hooved animals are very damaging to Australian soils, not to mention the grazing pressure). We also have exotic fish such as trout which are protected, despite the fact that they wipe out native fish such as Galaxias.

I assume you weren't asking for evidence of my personal (mostly facetious) speculations about cane toads and rabbits being protected in the future.

 

[nioka]

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with some rational argument as to why it should be illegal to take whatever steps are necessary to move flying foxes away from crops and public facilities.

Don't hold your breath. It may be a long wait. I doubt there is a RATIONAL argument.

 

[IFocus]

What do you want evidence of? Damaging vermin being protected? Horses have already been discussed at length here, and several species of deer are protected in Australia (we don't have any native deer, or any hooved animals, and hooved animals are very damaging to Australian soils, not to mention the grazing pressure). We also have exotic fish such as trout which are protected, despite the fact that they wipe out native fish such as Galaxias.

I assume you weren't asking for evidence of my personal (mostly facetious) speculations about cane toads and rabbits being protected in the future.

None of this is conservation so whats your point.

 

[IFocus]

stuff the whales

save a fruitbat

LOL

 

[Ageo]

Don't hold your breath. It may be a long wait. I doubt there is a RATIONAL argument.

Especially from a greeny, all you get is their personal agenda rammed down your throat.

 

[Ageo]

be unethical and inhumane.[/B]

Is this the same commission that think 1080 poison is humane??

sinner i respect your comments but this 1 is basically 100% horse manure.

 

[bunyip]

bunyip: Obviously you can't build a shopping center or housing estate without destroying habitat. I understand that, and as I said, I'm not sure whether or not clearing the brigalow was a good thing.

Yes, some of the common species of snakes you list thrive in modified habitat, but for that reason they are all common and widespread. Specialist species are the ones you'll wipe out when you destroy or modify special habitat such as the brigalow belt. Unfortunately, these are the ones which are rare and have restricted distributions. Things like Red-bellied Blacks, Browns, Carpet Pythons and Whip Snakes are not in any risk in southern QLD, and even a snake lover like me is content to see them locally wiped out in the name of progress. Brigalow Woma Pythons as an example, are all but extinct, as they can't live in modified habitat.

I think this is the main conservation issue which is lost due to a lack of understanding. The do gooders desperately try to campaign to save a population of common kangaroos, or worse still, brumbies or other vermin, and act as though losing one brush-tailed possum is as bad as losing a whole species. Sometimes losing a million animals doesn't matter, but losing a small few is tragic.

Can't say I've ever seen a brigalow Woma python, or even heard of them. Point taken - some negative impact on the environment is the price of progress.

I'll look up the Woma python on the net and see what I can find out. I'm a bit of a snake lover myself, well not a lover exactly, but they interest me.
I once caught an eight foot black headed python that was half way down a rabbit warren. I put him in a bag and took him home to show my wife, then took him back to the rabbit warren and released him.
As I tossed the empty bag back into the ute I realised there was something still in it. I looked in and saw four baby rabbits that the python had regurgitated.

All you snake haters, take note, snakes play an important role in the environment, even the venomous ones. Don't run over the next snake you see on the road - he's no threat to you and he's doing a good job controlling mice and other pests.

 

[Trembling Hand]

TH this is not green types upset its communities

Huh? Not following what you are trying to say here?

 

[chops_a_must]

Huh? Not following what you are trying to say here?

Often with horses, it's not "Greenies" that are the problem but local communities.

For instance, in Kakadu there are quite a few brumbies and they would have been ridded a long time ago, but the local tribes don't want them gone.

 

[bunyip]

You want talk land clearing being good check out WA one big salt lake as a result of.

No doubt you'll be doing your bit to control salinity then, by demolishing your house and embarking on a mass tree planting program to restore your land to what it was before you or some developer before you came in and cleared the trees off it!

Over-clearing of land certainly can lead to many problems such as salinity and erosion.
As I stated earlier, there needs to be balanced thinking and balanced strategies when it comes to environmental issues.

Clearing land to the extent that it gets ruined by salinity is obviously a mistake. Not clearing any land at all, thereby stifling economic progress and development, is equally a mistake.

Mass extermination of flying foxes to the extent of threatening them with extinction would clearly be a mistake. Equally, it's a mistake to have no control measures at all on flying foxes when they destroy agricultural crops and start fouling up school playgrounds and public recreation areas.

Whether it's land clearing, native animal control or any other environmental issue, there always needs to be a balance.

I very much respect Sadjii for the intelligence and common sense he's shown on this thread. He's clearly a conservationist, yet at the same time he shows balance in his thinking by being in favour of responsible development where necessary and controlling native animals when they become troublesome.

 

[Happy]

...
Mass extermination of flying foxes to the extent of threatening them with extinction would clearly be a mistake. Equally, it's a mistake to have no control measures at all on flying foxes when they destroy agricultural crops and start fouling up school playgrounds and public recreation areas.

...

Probably alternative approach could be used to wipe them out, just feed them like crazy so their population explodes even more (like human population), then stop feeding them.

Starvation should take care of most.

Probably one problem if feeding wild animals is considered there illegal.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Often with horses, it's not "Greenies" that are the problem but local communities.

Yeah I know that. I didn't think I inferred that it was any group other than the broad brush of "dogooders".

 

[Sdajii]

None of this is conservation so whats your point.

Don't ask me what the point is, you're the one who asked for the information!

 

[bunyip]

You want talk land clearing being good check out WA one big salt lake as a result of.


http://www.anra.gov.au/topics/salinity/pubs/national/salinity_wa.html

And while we're on the subject of salinity, IFocus, let me correct your views which are ill-considered and show the typical narrow-minded thinking of a true greenie.

Western Australia is not 'one big salt lake' as a result of land clearing.
WA is mostly either desert or semi-arid country verging on desert. Only a very small percentage of it is arable land suited to the kind of agricultural pursuits that require land to be cleared of timber.
Most of WA is arid land used primarily for pastoral industry, i.e. grazing of sheep and cattle. Most of the sheep and cattle country in WA has never been cleared of timber and is still in its natural state, with no salinity problems.
Certainly, salinity is a serious problem in some areas that have been cleared of timber and intensively farmed. These areas constitute only a small percentage of WA.


In most of your posts on this thread your comments have been flippant or ill-informed or both. You've shown a distinct inability to make intelligent comments or give accurate information or to make a useful contribution to this discussion.
You'd be well advised to activate your brain before you activate your mouth, otherwise you're going to continue making yourself look foolish.

Ageo summed it up nicely by saying that all you get from a greenie is their personal agenda rammed down your throat.

 

[IFocus]

And while we're on the subject of salinity, IFocus, let me correct your views which are ill-considered and show the typical narrow-minded thinking of a true greenie.

Western Australia is not 'one big salt lake' as a result of land clearing.
WA is mostly either desert or semi-arid country verging on desert. Only a very small percentage of it is arable land suited to the kind of agricultural pursuits that require land to be cleared of timber.
Most of WA is arid land used primarily for pastoral industry, i.e. grazing of sheep and cattle. Most of the sheep and cattle country in WA has never been cleared of timber and is still in its natural state, with no salinity problems.
Certainly, salinity is a serious problem in some areas that have been cleared of timber and intensively farmed. These areas constitute only a small percentage of WA.


In most of your posts on this thread your comments have been flippant or ill-informed or both. You've shown a distinct inability to make intelligent comments or give accurate information or to make a useful contribution to this discussion.
You'd be well advised to activate your brain before you activate your mouth, otherwise you're going to continue making yourself look foolish.

Ageo summed it up nicely by saying that all you get from a greenie is their personal agenda rammed down your throat.

Once you get to personal attacks you no longer have an argument.

Fact is I come from a farming family worked and lived in most parts of WA you want to lecture me on my own back yard?

Your comments are pretty much incorrect / assumptions and again not fact.

Land clearing in the WA wheat belt has led to massive problems with salinity fact.

This has led to significant loss of production in cereal crops in the state fact

This is where the big money is fact

Your other assumptions are rubbish, timber in arid areas your joking surely you make it sound like we have vast forests, have you any idea what scrub looks like, when I visit friends in the pastoral areas again I will pass on your advice hilarious

Most of WA is arid land used primarily for pastoral industry, i.e. grazing of sheep and cattle. Most of the sheep and cattle country in WA has never been cleared of timber and is still in its natural state, with no salinity problems.

Natural state you are joking what don't you know goats in times of drought which over here run for ten years or more (in your pastoral areas) are one of the main incomes, any idea what goats do.........you call me narrow minded

Please tell / lecture me more about WA and intelligence.

 

[IFocus]

Don't ask me what the point is, you're the one who asked for the information!

Its a simple question

 

[IFocus]

No doubt you'll be doing your bit to control salinity then, by demolishing your house and embarking on a mass tree planting program to restore your land to what it was before you or some developer before you came in and cleared the trees off it!

Over-clearing of land certainly can lead to many problems such as salinity and erosion.
As I stated earlier, there needs to be balanced thinking and balanced strategies when it comes to environmental issues.

Clearing land to the extent that it gets ruined by salinity is obviously a mistake. Not clearing any land at all, thereby stifling economic progress and development, is equally a mistake.

Mass extermination of flying foxes to the extent of threatening them with extinction would clearly be a mistake. Equally, it's a mistake to have no control measures at all on flying foxes when they destroy agricultural crops and start fouling up school playgrounds and public recreation areas.

Whether it's land clearing, native animal control or any other environmental issue, there always needs to be a balance.

I very much respect Sadjii for the intelligence and common sense he's shown on this thread. He's clearly a conservationist, yet at the same time he shows balance in his thinking by being in favour of responsible development where necessary and controlling native animals when they become troublesome.

There is one problem as evidence here in the west there is no balance

I adhere to one underlining principle

Don't know about you but I have kids

The environment this generation hands over to the next must not be worse.

The numbers are clear it wont happen

To do so with all the knowledge at our finger tips is the ultimate betrayal.

To do other wise is.............you fill in the dots.

 

[Bloveld]

Do any of you live in an area that's adversely affected by flying foxes, as I do?

Are you absolutely sick of these smelly, noisy, destructive, disgusting pests?

Are you sick of the pathetic people who have influenced the government to introduce laws making it illegal to cull flying foxes, or even move them on when they become a nuisance or a health risk?

First post and he starts out calling people who have a different opinion to himself, pathetic.
Great way to start a rational discussion.

 

[Sdajii]

Its a simple question

Indeed, but you need to ask yourself, not me!

It's a simple concept. You ask me for some information, I give it to you. If you want to know what the point is, you need to ask yourself, because you are the one who knows why it was requested (unless you are just requesting things at random, or are strange enough to ask me what your own motives/desires are, in which case I am sorry but I can't help you).

 

[Dunger]

I was at footy training at Marrickville on Monday night. We were standing in the middle of the field listening to the coach when out of nowhere a bat crashed into the ground meters from where we were standing with an almighty thud.

He was obviously unwell to crash and even more unwell as a result of the crash. Has anyone ever experienced anything similar?

I live in Sydneys Eastern Suburbs and there's a lot of fig trees and other trees for the bats to feed on. There's that many of them that they ate all the fruit and what not of the trees in the local area in one night and made a hell of a mess in the process. Branches and leaves and guano everywhere.

They should be culled to protect the trees for other wildlife and people to live off. There's enough bats hanging off the branches that they can snap the branch off. That's a LOT of bats.

They'll kill all the trees and move to another area and kill the trees there.

I don't blame the farmers for protecting their crop if they can do the damage they did in one night.