Home Insulation Debacle

[zzaaxxss3401]

I have decided to deposit the cheque into my CMT, and wait and see if they ask for it back, hoping they continue this slackness..(a high R/R position)

It's ok to commit fraud and tell everyone on ASF but it's not ok for dodgy installers to rort the Government's Home Insulation Scheme?

I don't get it - aren't you a hypocrite and a thief?

 

[Tink]

No compassion here for insulation companies, particularly the massive number of "fly by night" companies that have sprung up overnight. I am a building contractor and I am the mug compared to these cowboy insulation installers who are making filthy money for just literally "throwing" insulation into a ceiling space. The sooner they totally can this scheme the better.

I agree Macquack.

 

[Calliope]

I posted this on another thread earlier in the year. It will be interesting to see how insurance companies will respond to ceiling fires in those houses where insulation has been installed by the "fly by nights".

I reported the case where dozens of houses with existing roof insulation have had insulation pumped into the roof cavities.

In fact, in my street on some days the air was thick with insulation dust, and I live in a village where every house was efficiently insulated during construction.

The Rudd government is not taking a "dim view" of this. The are taking a dim view of whistle blowers. I was advised that they had the matter in hand, and that "random checks" would uncover any rorts.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the money allocated under the stimulus package has stimulated corruption to historic proportions. This will always happen when the checks and balances are practically non-existent.

And it is certainly not in the Governments interests to uncover the massive waste and graft occurring in the bats or school building programs. They know about the millions that have disappeared in the aboriginal housing program. Another case of turning a blind eye.

 

[Julia]

No compassion here for insulation companies, particularly the massive number of "fly by night" companies that have sprung up overnight. I am a building contractor and I am the mug compared to these cowboy insulation installers who are making filthy money for just literally "throwing" insulation into a ceiling space. The sooner they totally can this scheme the better.

Are you saying there are no ethical insulation companies who have been installing insulation appropriately since long before the government decided to fling our tax dollars around?

My point was that now even those people who would have installed insulation without any funds from the government will be put off using companies who have done nothing wrong, and that's unfair on perfectly legitimate businesses.

 

[joeyr46]

Are you saying there are no ethical insulation companies who have been installing insulation appropriately since long before the government decided to fling our tax dollars around?

My point was that now even those people who would have installed insulation without any funds from the government will be put off using companies who have done nothing wrong, and that's unfair on perfectly legitimate businesses.

Totally agree Julia but that seems to be the result everytime government gets involved and muddies the waters

 

[Aussiejeff]

Are you saying there are no ethical insulation companies who have been installing insulation appropriately since long before the government decided to fling our tax dollars around?

My point was that now even those people who would have installed insulation without any funds from the government will be put off using companies who have done nothing wrong, and that's unfair on perfectly legitimate businesses.

Yes, here again we see collateral damage from a Federal Government squashing both "good" and "evil" operators in a single, mindless stroke. Bravo, Herr Garrot!

Saw some media figures which guesstimate about 7,000 jobs will instantly be lost (prolly a gross underestimation IMO)?

So much for the mighty KRudd 'n Co. trumpeting a few weeks back how many "new jobs" had been created by these schemes. ROFLMAO!!!!


aj

 

[drsmith]

If it is better for the householder to clain the rebate instead of the installer than why was it not structured that way in the first place ?

 

[tunrida]

Or a 50 bil technology infrastructure project without a business case run by Labor cronies - NBN.

Scary!!

ah the nostalgia.......... Gough Whitlam and Jim Cairns revisited

 

[Julia]

If it is better for the householder to clain the rebate instead of the installer than why was it not structured that way in the first place ?

Exactly. And they are also claiming that the new arrangement "places control in the hands of the householder".
How does it do this any more than previously? The householder always had the choice of material and choice of installer.

There has just been a radio news item that the government will now make available many more millions (sorry, forget the actual amount) 'to support workers who will lose their jobs through the canning of the scheme'. They will be provided with 'intensive training assistance'.

It just keeps getting worse.

 

[GumbyLearner]

This thread has to get an A+ on the pork barrel gone wrong scale.






Here's the Al Gore version
http://torontoist.com/attachments/toronto_sarahl/20090406twitter6.jpg

 

[tunrida]

yes a few negatives from the program like deaths, half of Oz houses now electrified, and heaps of workers now unemployed.......
but hey, there are positives - like the more sophisticated insulation types (like soundproofing) becoming available again and ordinary stuff being cheap for some time as they quit the supply glut.

and wait for the fallout from the solar panel program also - participants are already discovering that they do indeed need maintenance (operation is not free of costs) and most roof fixings used have voided the roofing warranties of the building. Oh well, its good to "feel" green

 

[GumbyLearner]

Government to give installers an extra $10m
AAP
February 20, 2010

THE federal government will spend $10 million to help thousands of workers affected by changes to the bungled home insulation program.

Employment Participation Minister Mark Arbib says the government will help the 6000 workers, who risk losing their jobs, in the interim.

An additional $10 million will provide 2000 jobs training places, on top of the 4000 places announced last year, he said.

This policy on the run stuff reminds me of.... :dimbulb:

 

[Aussiejeff]

Government to give installers an extra $10m
AAP
February 20, 2010

THE federal government will spend $10 million to help thousands of workers affected by changes to the bungled home insulation program.

Employment Participation Minister Mark Arbib says the government will help the 6000 workers, who risk losing their jobs, in the interim.

An additional $10 million will provide 2000 jobs training places, on top of the 4000 places announced last year, he said.

This policy on the run stuff reminds me of.... :dimbulb:

Except that naughty boy Benny knew EXACTLY what he was doing. HIS timing was GREAT. Unlike these current Labor nongs....

 

[Julia]

Did anyone see Peter Garrett in excerpts in tonight's 7.30 Report?

The first item was about the canning of the roof insulation and the second about the Green Loans. Both have been appalling scams with now tens of thousands about to be out of work.

I almost felt sorry for Garrett who was quasi hysterical in his protestations of assiduous attention to safety throughout both programmes.

Bet he wishes he was still an idol of the rock world. Must have been way easier than being a member of the Rudd entourage.

 

[Whiskers]

If it is better for the householder to clain the rebate instead of the installer than why was it not structured that way in the first place ?

I would speculate that they figured many people would not go for the scheme if they had to find the cash up front, given the GFC.

Unfortunately, this way tends to induce many people into doing something that they may not have done otherwise because they think they are getting something for cheap or for nothing.

I also understand it was a whole of gov decision, not just Garret, designed first and foremost to give the economy a fast kick. Consequently, I'd be very surprised if Garret was sacked.

While the administration of the scheme was lacking satisfactory supervision and accountability, there seems to have been some arguably reasonable (in legality) guidelines and training provision put in place.

Early days yet, but I don't expect the suit against the gov re any deaths will be successful. Probably the main reason would be regardless of any guidelines and training provisions or lack of, the issue of stapling into electrical wiring is a fundamental due care and attention issue firstly on the part of the installer and secondly on the employer. Similar issue to carrying out renovations or working around electricity wire generally. One should either turn the power of first or take necessairy steps to know where the live wires are at all times.

I think the court would hold that any reasonable person would know that if you put a metal staple through a metal foil into a live electrical cable you would get electricuted. This is where I think the onus falls 100% back on the employer and self employed under normal Workplace Health and Safety laws and Common Law negligence.

I also expect that from a legal perspective at least, the minister will probably be successful in arguing that his banning of the metal foil was not an admission of any negligence on his part or the scheme, but rather a necessary greater public interest issue, given the number of shonky installers operating in the scheme and that in the normal course of events industrial, building and safety inspectors are state gov juristiction. I have heard that the states didn't respond to increased demand in these areas.

 

[GumbyLearner]

Why do we need states?

Because many states informed the Federal Environment Minister that his program was potentially hazardous?

 

[Whiskers]

Why do we need states?

Because many states informed the Federal Environment Minister that his program was potentially hazardous?

Indeed!

And conflicting interests and motivation as far as this scheme was concerned.

At the end of the day I'm with those who think the money would have been better spent elsewhere, eg infrastructure or even paying private hospitals to shortern hospital/surgery waiting lists.

PS: Talking about waste of public money, I think this easily eclipses what Anna Bligh wasted on the ditched Traverston Dam.

 

[Aussiejeff]

Indeed!

And conflicting interests and motivation as far as this scheme was concerned.

At the end of the day I'm with those who think the money would have been better spent elsewhere, eg infrastructure or even paying private hospitals to shortern hospital/surgery waiting lists.

PS: Talking about waste of public money, I think this easily eclipses what Anna Bligh wasted on the ditched Traverston Dam.

Oh, this is just the tip of the iceberg ripping into HMS KRuddtanic...

TAXPAYERS will stump up an estimated $47 million for safety checks on homes fitted with pink batts, adding to the debacle of the Federal Government's insulation scheme.

Embattled Environment Minister Peter Garrett announced today that inspectors would visit 160,000 homes that have had pink batts installed to check that they are safe.

Four deaths and 93 house fires have been linked to the insulation scheme, which was axed on Friday.

Industry insiders estimated each audit would cost at least $300.

The Government is already paying an estimated $19 million to vet homes fitted with foil insulation under the scheme, so the total cost of the audits will amount to more than $60 million.

The cost estimate does not include the cost of fixing dodgy insulation.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/br...-cost-47-million/story-e6frf7jx-1225833171585

Note this estimate is for the SAFETY AUDITS ALONE. I would be very surprised if the cost to taxpayers to actually FIX this freakin' mess (skilled labour/replacement insulation/post re-installation checks?) didn't at least match this figure.

I'm not surprised Julia noted Garrot as "quasi hysterical" when shouting and pleading his case on the 7.30 Rep last night. Personally, I was more inclined to think he was almost completely "off his rocker".

 

[GumbyLearner]

The guy should resign.

How can he sleep while our batts are burning?

Go back to your record label, you power hungry muppet!

 

[Calliope]

I'm not surprised Julia noted Garrot as "quasi hysterical" when shouting and pleading his case on the 7.30 Rep last night. Personally, I was more inclined to think he was almost completely "off his rocker".

Garrett does a good impersonation of Sgt. Schultz.