Storm Financial Group

[Solly]

Oh.. I'm not a 'stormer', I did my dough with City's FMF, and I'm working to get some of back - but, I'm far from poor and I didn't throw in any of my property. I come here to learn and participate where possible.

I just think you're being hard on people who (1) feel the need to grieve about their substantial losses, and (2) are seeking restitution from those believed at fault. A lot of 'stormers' were financially decimated by Storm.

If I was a 'stormer' I'd be out to get as much as I could back from whomever I could - that's a natural reaction. I can see the reality of risking homes, but nevertheless, if the banks and Storm at fault, then they should pay.

Look, I kick my toe on a something I don't see, and I blame the object I kick - what is so humanly wrong in externalizing blame anyway?

Acceptance of loss takes time - for some it's relatively quick, for others it takes time.

I can see that on this thread there a people whose lives have been shattered, there is no point 'manhandling' them into 'reality'.

My point, is this - so, what if you're right? so what? It doesn't matter.

Sometimes being right simply doesn't matter.

mellifuous, I spent quite a long time with a Stormer on Saturday, some mates shouted him a few drinks and hopefully, provided a distraction from the quagmire that he is in.

He knows he would do things differently if he had his time over again. He chose Storm as he thought all the safety levers were in place and because there were other reputable companies involved. He's still shell shocked and very worried about the family's future.

I know if I was has in his shoes I'd be grasping at any straw or faint glimmer of hope that could extradite me from this event. I agree there's no benefit in bringing up how this all happened, there's only benefit in determinedly marching forward out of all of this.

I believe that it will be a busy day at Harry's place today.

 

[Judd]

.......He knows he would do things differently if he had his time over again. He chose Storm as he thought all the safety levers were in place and because there were other reputable companies involved. He's still shell shocked and very worried about the family's future.

I know if I was has in his shoes I'd be grasping at any straw or faint glimmer of hope that could extradite me from this event. I agree there's no benefit in bringing up how this all happened, there's only benefit in determinedly marching forward out of all of this.

I understand the sentiments expressed and if I were in a similar position, I'd be pursuing compensation as well. You'd be even more derelict in respect of your family's position if you didn't.

And while there are those who don't, most Storm posters indicate they now accept some portion of blame. OK, I can see both sides. I don't necessarily agree with one position but so be it.

And, the more terrible thing is that Stormers, like your mate, have had their trust shattered. Been with Manny for 5,10, 15 years and everything he said worked before so why wouldn't it work now? Yep, my brain can accommodate that attitude.

And, I am not being rude about Townsville here, but it is not the "Big Smoke" and so word of mouth would get around how great is this product. Read in one of your links where, in a small rural town, people were talking down at the pub about Storm and how you'd be stupid if you didn't get it to it. So it is possible to see how individuals could be seduced.

However, the one thing that my mind can not accommodate is the concept that debt was apparently never to be repaid but always increased. I'd be packing myself every time I opened a statement wondering how on earth I was going to get rid of the debt. That is the part that sort of stuns me, but then I dislike owing money.

 

[Julia]

Look, I kick my toe on a something I don't see, and I blame the object I kick

Hmm. I'd have thought you'd blame yourself for not looking where you were going.

 

[Solly]

I understand the sentiments expressed and if I were in a similar position, I'd be pursuing compensation as well. You'd be even more derelict in respect of your family's position if you didn't.

And while there are those who don't, most Storm posters indicate they now accept some portion of blame. OK, I can see both sides. I don't necessarily agree with one position but so be it.

And, the more terrible thing is that Stormers, like your mate, have had their trust shattered. Been with Manny for 5,10, 15 years and everything he said worked before so why wouldn't it work now? Yep, my brain can accommodate that attitude.

And, I am not being rude about Townsville here, but it is not the "Big Smoke" and so word of mouth would get around how great is this product. Read in one of your links where, in a small rural town, people were talking down at the pub about Storm and how you'd be stupid if you didn't get it to it. So it is possible to see how individuals could be seduced.

However, the one thing that my mind can not accommodate is the concept that debt was apparently never to be repaid but always increased. I'd be packing myself every time I opened a statement wondering how on earth I was going to get rid of the debt. That is the part that sort of stuns me, but then I dislike owing money.

Judd my mate's from the Brisbane area so there were plenty of other financial opinions available to him. He had a previous solid relationship with his adviser before the business became Stormified. I don't believe it was an affinity scam but I do believe he placed a lot of trust in the advice that was given.

I too found the concept strange about the debt never having to be paid down. He did ask me to attend a Storm info session a couple of years ago, I declined as I wasn't interested as I was happy with my structuring. I now wish I had attended this session, I would have asked many, many questions about the methodology proposed and would have definitely packed a spare set of underpants

I've now got to align the azimuth on the sat dish, I feel there will be a lot to send on the uplink today

 

[mellifuous]

Hmm. I'd have thought you'd blame yourself for not looking where you were going.

no way, externalization of blame protects the ego...

I'm infallible, the object is at fault.

&#$% objects, why do they cause me such grief?

 

[MB73]

I am new to this post, but i am very well across the affairs of Storm. I must say I think some of you are a bit harsh on Harlequin and are missing one crucial point. I think Harlequin has probably missed it too or not communicated it too well. The point is this:

Stormers paid good money to a professional (presumably because they did not have the skills) for a financial plan. Amongst other things that plan had certain parameters to be maintained. One of those important parameters was the maximum LVR. At the end, the financial adviser (ie Storm) did not stick to the plan that was presented to their client. This is where I believe a stormer could absolve themselves from responsibility.

An anology - If a doctor told you he was going to remove your tonsils, but then performed a labotomy, i think you would be pretty unhappy (well, if that was possible!!).

I think the Stormers took some risk possibly knowing that they could lose some money, never expecting that they could lose everything because their adviser did not follow their own model.

I know some of you will say that these people should have been following their own investments etc. Just remember that the typical Stormer is financially uneducated and/or a pensioner. The dramatic falls in the market led to a situation where these people did not / could not concieve what was happening or did not know how to act and therefore had to rely on the person they paid to look after them.

 

[Judd]

My my, it seems there are also little pixies at the bottom of the garden or at least someone is living in fantasy land.

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26293330-3122,00.html

Storm directors 'leased aircraft but client software unimproved'
Article from: The Courier-Mail

Anthony Marx

November 02, 2009 01:17pm

THE directors of failed Storm Financial splashed out on an aircraft lease but did not have funds to develop their software to protect their clients ¿ investments.

Julie Cassimatis is back on the stand today in the public examination into the failure of the financial advice firm in the Federal Court.

....................................................................................................

Julie Cassimatis, who headed up Storm’s “Compliance Unit”, told the hearing today that the unit did not always check or sign off on statements of advice to clients.

But lawyer Mr Craig Wilkins, for Storm liquidators Worrells, produced a document from May 2007 which indicated that all statements were reviewed by principals of Storm.

 

[bunyip]

Hmm. I'd have thought you'd blame yourself for not looking where you were going.

LOL......I would have thought so too.
He who kicks toe on object should bloody well watch where he's going!

But there are always some people who kick their toe again. And again. And again.....
In fact I reckon we have a few of them right here on this forum!

 

[mellifuous]

Hmm. I'd have thought you'd blame yourself for not looking where you were going.

Well, actually, it was a metaphor - a simple example of the way that a lot of 'stormers' are reacting - externalizing blame.

I hope ye who scoff are not counted in those who blame others for their own mistakes, because it is they who blame others that are the ones the metaphor relates to.

oooOOOooo

 

[bunyip]

Oh.. I'm not a 'stormer', I did my dough with City's FMF, and I'm working to get some of back - but, I'm far from poor and I didn't throw in any of my property. I come here to learn and participate where possible.

Ah yes......City Pacific - saturation advertising in magazines and newspapers, offering interest rates up to 3% above bank term deposits.
No shortage of unsuspecting victims to reel in - hardly surprising when it all came tumbling down.

Common sense - if it sounds too good to be true.........etc etc.

 

[mellifuous]

Ah yes......City Pacific - saturation advertising in magazines and newspapers, offering interest rates up to 3% above bank term deposits.
No shortage of unsuspecting victims to reel in - hardly surprising when it all came tumbling down.

Common sense - if it sounds too good to be true.........etc etc.

yep.. done like a dinner... all admitted up front.
I lost heaps, and i was just as stupid as people here that lost
and just as stupid as people in octaviar who lost
and just as stupid as the folks in westpoint
and acr
and centro
and ..
and..

 

[Solly]

"Investors pay price as Storm staff take to skies"

"Mrs Cassimatis told the court Storm had its own tailored financial data software which it used to keep track of clients' investments.

She said she was unaware whether the company had sought the inclusion of a feature in the software that would have alerted Storm advisors when clients' margin-loan-to-value ratios plunged into margin call territory."

More by Christine Kellett on brisbanetimes.com.au;

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/investors-pay-price-as-storm-staff-take-to-skies-20091102-hssi.html

 

[Harleyquin]

I have no intention of not posting again. When I pay someone who advertises on TV as storm did to come in and see them and they would look after us financially, I expected just that and paid them darn good money for their so called 'expertise.' I have days when of course I blame myself and days when I don't and try to forgive myself for getting sucked in by a con artist and company. I'm well aware that it's possible to make good money on a falling market as our storm advisor told us they would take advantage of a falling market...another lie.... and I would expect that there are many of you who have taken advantage of this. I've never bought a share in my life and wouldn't know where to start. Now that storm has collapsed we are floundering as far as a financial plan for the future goes, we have none and little hope of ever having one again.

I am educating myself financially and now know a lot more than I did a couple of years ago. I believed that it was possible to go to a financial planner and they would look after our financial needs as that's what we were paying them for. Nowadays I wouldn't even pay a financial planner a visit. I will be seeking compensation from all of those who have helped to destroy us as destroy us they have. We like so many other retirees and near retirees will no longer own a home or be able to travel we will be totally reliant on all of you who are making a mint on a falling market to support us. Keep making the millions as our government is going to need all the money it can to support the thousands of us left destitute by this collapse.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Couldn't let this go by without acknowledging it.
It is exactly a year ago to the day (and almost to the minute if I've got my timing right) since Garpul Gumnut started this thread.
He has proved very incisive with a lot of things over the last 12 months but I bet even he didn't have any idea how things were going to unfold since he started this thread. I won't rabbit on too much more except to say thanks to everyone for all your input especially solly who has done more than anyone else to keep us all up to date with his link postings and insightful comments.
To those adversely affected by all this my best wishes that you get a good outcome and keep fighting you deserve every bit of compensation you can get and more.
I can only hope that everyone is able to put this tragedy behind them before the 2nd anniversary of this thread rolls around.
Good luck and all the best to you all.

Thank you for your kind words Grey Ghost.

Unfortunately for Stormers, I did have a good idea of how things would unfold, as I had been scammed many years ago in a similar show, my first and only contact with a financial planner. I recovered and have never been to one since.

The word was out in Townsville that Storm was a potential basket case the week I posted. I had no inside knowledge, but in a small rich city like this , word travels fast.

That was what prompted me to start the thread, to get the fish a moving with some burley, and to find out where they lurked.

The whole thread escalated from there thanks to all the incisive posters who followed on.

gg

I am new to this post, but i am very well across the affairs of Storm. I must say I think some of you are a bit harsh on Harlequin and are missing one crucial point. I think Harlequin has probably missed it too or not communicated it too well. The point is this:

Stormers paid good money to a professional (presumably because they did not have the skills) for a financial plan. Amongst other things that plan had certain parameters to be maintained. One of those important parameters was the maximum LVR. At the end, the financial adviser (ie Storm) did not stick to the plan that was presented to their client. This is where I believe a stormer could absolve themselves from responsibility.

An anology - If a doctor told you he was going to remove your tonsils, but then performed a labotomy, i think you would be pretty unhappy (well, if that was possible!!).

I think the Stormers took some risk possibly knowing that they could lose some money, never expecting that they could lose everything because their adviser did not follow their own model.

I know some of you will say that these people should have been following their own investments etc. Just remember that the typical Stormer is financially uneducated and/or a pensioner. The dramatic falls in the market led to a situation where these people did not / could not concieve what was happening or did not know how to act and therefore had to rely on the person they paid to look after them.

MB73, all your points are valid and worthwhile reiterating to the opposing camps in the recent posts. I would like to add some of my own views as a Townsville resident familiar with investors in Storm and since last year with the Storm Model.

The investors in the Storm model were to a large degree unsophisticated and led by the spin proferred by Manny and the crew of HMS Pinafore. Pensioners, small business people, workers and retirees, flocked to Storm over the years. They were driven by word of mouth and spin.

The model was initially very successful but did not plan for a dramatic market fall. The punters believed it would never end and it became like a religion. Family members were enrolled or looked at askance if they declined to invest. It was all too good to be true.

The inevitable fall was what Manny calls a Black Swan event. It was not a black swan event or any other event but a natural fluctuation in the markets which has been occurring for centuries.

The criminal negilgence in the mismanagement of the clients LVR's is what has left the Stormers losing everything, by putting their homes up as collateral and not liquidating the loan in time. Whether this is Storm's fault or the Banks will be played out in the courts.

The average unsophisticated Storm client would have trusted Storm as much as they would their doctor, and that is why so many have been bewildered and unable to move on from this affair. This is in part due to their age, their lack of financial education and in some a blind belief that Manny was correct and done in by the banks.

By the way, some investors were "sophisticated" and did not suffer as much as others, and also many "unsophisticated" had been with Storm for many years, and had done well. They in turn lost more relatively than others, but made it initially on the back of a crook model.

gg

 

[Solly]

gg, I find it interesting that Storm states that they were not responsible
for monitoring margin loans and I believe that Phormula had no ability to do so.

The prospectus states this,

"Storm’s strong relationships with financial services providers
enables it to gain, on behalf of clients, access to competitive
fees, interest rates and facilities from suppliers of debt and
related investment products. These benefits enhance the
return to Storm clients.

Storm recognises the need to preserve its clients’ core assets
and lifestyle and takes an active approach to monitoring its
clients’ financial situation. Consequently, Storm establishes
what it considers to be conservative MLVRs for clients and
actively manages client debt positions (including maintaining
and managing cash reserves as appropriate) to avoid margin
call events and other risks associated with using leverage.
Storm monitors the MLVR position of its clients on an
ongoing basis, and responds to opportunities associated with
market volatility..."

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

gg, I find it interesting that Storm states that they were not responsible
for monitoring margin loans and I believe that Phormula had no ability to do so.

The prospectus states this,

"Storm’s strong relationships with financial services providers
enables it to gain, on behalf of clients, access to competitive
fees, interest rates and facilities from suppliers of debt and
related investment products. These benefits enhance the
return to Storm clients.

Storm recognises the need to preserve its clients’ core assets
and lifestyle and takes an active approach to monitoring its
clients’ financial situation. Consequently, Storm establishes
what it considers to be conservative MLVRs for clients and
actively manages client debt positions (including maintaining
and managing cash reserves as appropriate) to avoid margin
call events and other risks associated with using leverage.
Storm monitors the MLVR position of its clients on an
ongoing basis, and responds to opportunities associated with
market volatility..."

Its there in black and blue, mate for all to see.

I doubt if any bank could be held responsible on that one paragraph alone, which was printed when Storm tried to list, detailing their alleged active management of clients LVR's.

Then I'm not a lawyer.

gg

 

[Julia]

I have no intention of not posting again. When I pay someone who advertises on TV as storm did to come in and see them and they would look after us financially, I expected just that and paid them darn good money for their so called 'expertise.' I have days when of course I blame myself and days when I don't and try to forgive myself for getting sucked in by a con artist and company. I'm well aware that it's possible to make good money on a falling market as our storm advisor told us they would take advantage of a falling market...another lie.... and I would expect that there are many of you who have taken advantage of this. I've never bought a share in my life and wouldn't know where to start. Now that storm has collapsed we are floundering as far as a financial plan for the future goes, we have none and little hope of ever having one again.

I am educating myself financially and now know a lot more than I did a couple of years ago. I believed that it was possible to go to a financial planner and they would look after our financial needs as that's what we were paying them for. Nowadays I wouldn't even pay a financial planner a visit. I will be seeking compensation from all of those who have helped to destroy us as destroy us they have. We like so many other retirees and near retirees will no longer own a home or be able to travel we will be totally reliant on all of you who are making a mint on a falling market to support us. Keep making the millions as our government is going to need all the money it can to support the thousands of us left destitute by this collapse.

Harleyquin, you have said all the above many, many times before.
I'm curious as to why you are determined to keep posting this on ASF?
It can't be unknown to you that several ASF members are becoming irritated by your repetitive protestations.

It's surely clear to you that ASF is not a support group for disaffected Storm clients. You have SICAG for your emotional support and you have long extolled the virtues of that organisation.

Human beings repeat behaviour that they find rewarding.
What then do you actually get out of posting on here?

 

[Solly]

"Storm founder points finger at CBA"

"STORM FINANCIAL's founders Julie and Emmanuel Cassimatis planned to use a slice of the $2 million dividend they paid themselves in the days before the company's collapse to sue the Commonwealth Bank, a court has been told.

Yesterday Mrs Cassimatis used a public inquiry into Storm's spectacular failure to criticise the bank."

More by Christine Kellett in the SMH here;

http://www.smh.com.au/business/storm-founder-points-finger-at-cba-20091102-htf1.html

 

[Solly]

"Hardship denials still an issue: SICAG
CBA resolution process painless"

"A number of ex-Storm clients are finding the CBA resolution scheme process offers closure, though not all, according to SICAG"

More by Kate Kachor in Investor Daily here;

http://www.investordaily.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/id/style/7767.htm

 

[Solly]

"Storm head Julie Cassimatis denies getting email about $2m transfer"

"STORM Financial principal Julie Cassimatis claimed yesterday she never received an email sent by the company's chief financial officer which said she and her husband were not entitled to the $2 million they took out of the company as it faced insolvency."

More by Andrew Fraser in The Australian here;

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,26297116-643,00.html