No doubt the OP laments the demise of One Nation as he no longer has political representation. I also note his constant stroking over being a recent grad, wow where's my chocolate frogs. I hold four degress from Australian unis and quite enjoyed the fact they were populated by people of different backgrounds. If rednecks like the OP actually overcame their fear and had a chat they might find people from somewhere else are not that scary.
Overseas Students - I am staggered
- Thread starter WinnieBlues
- Start date
It's always good to compare to others when being judgmental like this.
My sister a few days ago said she was served by a girl in a deli and she began to talk to her and noticed that she had a US accent.
The deli girl said she grew up in America but moved to Australia when she married an Australian. She said she went to school in Harvard and owes the school $300,000, which she knew she would never be able to pay off so she was happy to move here.
Image that for a school debt! That's 300K she is obliged to pay off, even before she can start saving to buy a house. And lets admit it, the US schooling system isn't the best one going around either and how good can it be, she was working in a deli!
Compare a debt like that to what you are saying above. And really the US dollar is pretty much the same as a AUD dollar now.
My sister a few days ago said she was served by a girl in a deli and she began to talk to her and noticed that she had a US accent.
The deli girl said she grew up in America but moved to Australia when she married an Australian. She said she went to school in Harvard and owes the school $300,000, which she knew she would never be able to pay off so she was happy to move here.
Image that for a school debt! That's 300K she is obliged to pay off, even before she can start saving to buy a house. And lets admit it, the US schooling system isn't the best one going around either and how good can it be, she was working in a deli!
Compare a debt like that to what you are saying above. And really the US dollar is pretty much the same as a AUD dollar now.
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As usual what you are saying makes a lot of sense. When I was at Uni, none of the now fashionable Mickey Mouse degrees existed. In those days the idea of a degree was to gain a profession that could earn you a living.
Prospector
Not a scaredy cat anymore
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Hey Dr J, the problem is that the Uni's are continually crying poor. Yet they fund these incredibly specialist undergrad courses which require the infrastructure that goes along with it. And of course, they dont want to rule themselves out of work. These are the snouts I was talking about, not the students themselves!
High praise indeed Mr Calliope!
: Maybe we are just two oldies who reminisce about the good old days, but really, some (maybe 50%) of the undergrad courses they teach these days are just ridiculous.
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Did the OP consider that without the foreign students, there are half as many students in total? Ok, so lop off half the facilities and professors, reducing the quality of education. And don't forget to double the cost of going to uni since the foreign kids aren't subsidising the Aussie kids any more. Net result: A poorer education for the fewer people who can afford one.
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What is the idea of a degree "these days" then?
God only knows. But I do know that many of those turned out by our Unis end up in safe bureaucratic government jobs where they can make life difficult for the true professionals.
Hospital administration comes to mind.
...
and because it is now a business it has been abused.....and what a joke that is
There are also rumours about pressure to accept below minimal level to let foreign students to continue.
Often evident plagiarism is not picked up.
Many students have such poor English language that you wander what they understand, if at all.
Essays are bought and sold there are switches during the exams.
So true: Factory but with very poor quality control and above all this is back door entry to permanent residency in Australia.
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Just wish to point out that you need to score above 7 (out of 9) on ALL 4 components of the IELTS test to score 25 points on the point system. Without achieving this you lose 10 points which the vast majority of potential migrants would need in order to be granted a 885 visa.
I agree that the quality of international student can be poor in some disciplines, e.g. business school here, but then again they won't be able to migrate with that occupation anyway.
Yo. Former international student here. My caveat is that I finished my course mid 2007.
Points:
1. Overseas students can't get AUSTUDY or any centrelink support. What is more, even after they become permanent residents, they have to wait TWO years before are able to claim centrelink payments. Those students with the funny accent are in fact already permanent residents, temporary residents or citizens.
2. Overseas students receive less support than local students. For instance, back in 2005 as an international student there was no way you could get an internship or graduate position in any company because they very first question they asked was 'Are you a PR?', if you said no, the company would not consider you. Also, if the course had an internship component, you couldn't apply for it. I heard that the situation for international students in this regard has improved somewhat, but I'm not sure.
3. I think a lot of people are kidding themselves if they somehow believe that this influx of international students or other immigrants doesn't has anything to do with the state of housing here in Australia. If all international students were gone tomorrow, you'll see a lot of these 95% LTV property investors having problems servicing their mortgages.
4. In regards to quality, while I can't provide any numbers, I believe that the standard of education has dropped in order to accept a greater number of international students. Throughout my degree I've seen and heard of 'tough' subjects becoming way easier for no reason at all. Heck, I've seen one guy who hardly spoke any English in my Business Law class (Only one incident, however, it left a very deep impression on me).
5. Again, I can't provide any numbers, but I strongly suspect most international students can't become PRs when they finish their degree. In order to be able to get your PR you need an IELTS test of 7.0 overall. As surprising as this might sound to some people, my personal experience has been that most international students can't do it. I know someone who did the IELTS 5 times(300 bucks the try) and couldn't get 7.0. Then she had to pay a cool 12,000 for more education.
6. I don't know how the 15 billion dollars get calculated, but international students pay much more than just the education. For instance, the Department of Immigration assumes that you will need 12,000 AUD a year to afford living in Australia. I don't know about you, but it seems pretty tough to live in Australia at 1,000 AUD a month when you know no one here. I wager that most international students spend way more than 12k a year on top of the degree.
Points:
1. Overseas students can't get AUSTUDY or any centrelink support. What is more, even after they become permanent residents, they have to wait TWO years before are able to claim centrelink payments. Those students with the funny accent are in fact already permanent residents, temporary residents or citizens.
2. Overseas students receive less support than local students. For instance, back in 2005 as an international student there was no way you could get an internship or graduate position in any company because they very first question they asked was 'Are you a PR?', if you said no, the company would not consider you. Also, if the course had an internship component, you couldn't apply for it. I heard that the situation for international students in this regard has improved somewhat, but I'm not sure.
3. I think a lot of people are kidding themselves if they somehow believe that this influx of international students or other immigrants doesn't has anything to do with the state of housing here in Australia. If all international students were gone tomorrow, you'll see a lot of these 95% LTV property investors having problems servicing their mortgages.
4. In regards to quality, while I can't provide any numbers, I believe that the standard of education has dropped in order to accept a greater number of international students. Throughout my degree I've seen and heard of 'tough' subjects becoming way easier for no reason at all. Heck, I've seen one guy who hardly spoke any English in my Business Law class (Only one incident, however, it left a very deep impression on me).
5. Again, I can't provide any numbers, but I strongly suspect most international students can't become PRs when they finish their degree. In order to be able to get your PR you need an IELTS test of 7.0 overall. As surprising as this might sound to some people, my personal experience has been that most international students can't do it. I know someone who did the IELTS 5 times(300 bucks the try) and couldn't get 7.0. Then she had to pay a cool 12,000 for more education.
6. I don't know how the 15 billion dollars get calculated, but international students pay much more than just the education. For instance, the Department of Immigration assumes that you will need 12,000 AUD a year to afford living in Australia. I don't know about you, but it seems pretty tough to live in Australia at 1,000 AUD a month when you know no one here. I wager that most international students spend way more than 12k a year on top of the degree.
Stpepper: "Throughout my degree I've seen and heard of 'tough' subjects becoming way easier for no reason at all" isn't just about foreign students. It is a way for the universities to boost their rankings. Governments have put forward ideas involving performance of universities.
A friend's brother was involved in marking some work of students. He was given directions on how to mark. The comment made was it was hard to fail.
A friend's brother was involved in marking some work of students. He was given directions on how to mark. The comment made was it was hard to fail.
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Its much easier if you're a local student, knowing how to change certain parts, ability to dumb down high level language to more believable levels, and every student's greatest friend. Google.
I went to uni, and im an aussie.
I dont see the problem in taking money from overseas?
lets be real here anyway, this is FACT that 40% of uni students drop out of there course before the end of the first year.
So crying about to many internationals is just stupid. Its a business like it or not, and a good one.
Lets face it, most aussies are under acheivers who dont want to work or study hard anyway, its the australian away. the small perecentage of us who actually want to learn and are ambitious, is not enough to fill a uni, trust me.
I dont see the problem in taking money from overseas?
lets be real here anyway, this is FACT that 40% of uni students drop out of there course before the end of the first year.
So crying about to many internationals is just stupid. Its a business like it or not, and a good one.
Lets face it, most aussies are under acheivers who dont want to work or study hard anyway, its the australian away. the small perecentage of us who actually want to learn and are ambitious, is not enough to fill a uni, trust me.
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A racist post if ever i have saw one.....imagine saying all tongans are underachievers who don't want to work or study....you would be vilified to hell
doctorj
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Australia has graduated from a country to a race now?
How can i be racist if its my own race? i said MOST, and there is a small percentage of us who actually are ambitious.
I think you are infact the racist one, there is def hidden racisim in ur posts and even the whole idea of this thread, your very anti foreginers if im reading between the lines correctly.
haha,
i dont see how aussie children who have been riding of their parents wealth are really anymore deserving than these overseas students.
luke is definitely right, aussie students.... not all, but by proportion to those of foreign background are underperformers/achievers.
- not racist... just the truth.
disclosure: anglo-australian, go to uni.
i dont see how aussie children who have been riding of their parents wealth are really anymore deserving than these overseas students.
luke is definitely right, aussie students.... not all, but by proportion to those of foreign background are underperformers/achievers.
- not racist... just the truth.
disclosure: anglo-australian, go to uni.
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I graduated in August. The only issue I have with international students is that they are a nightmare to do a group assignment with, they either say they'll do something and then don't, completely misunderstand the assignment question, copy and paste from google, get aggressive with you when you fix their dodgy English or the absolute winner, refuse to work with the group as 'they don't want the Aussie guys/girls to take advantage of their higher work ethic'.
I am all for them coming here to learn and spending money. I also have heaps of Asian friends who are generally far more scathing of the FOBs than I am...
I reckon the English exams should come before the degree...
P.S. My housemate is a German citizen who has been living here with his diplomat parents since 2001, speaks fluent English, finished year 12 and has started a Building & Construction management degree. He can't get citizenship, it is a joke!!!
I am all for them coming here to learn and spending money. I also have heaps of Asian friends who are generally far more scathing of the FOBs than I am...
I reckon the English exams should come before the degree...
P.S. My housemate is a German citizen who has been living here with his diplomat parents since 2001, speaks fluent English, finished year 12 and has started a Building & Construction management degree. He can't get citizenship, it is a joke!!!
Your question should have been "How can I be racist towards a nationality"? My question to you is whether you know most Australians, since you claim that most are lazy. How do you know it isn't a human trait, rather than Australian one? Perhaps there's a reason why the international students work harder? Paying as much as they do, you would think they would be pressured to succeed.
It's also the "Australian way" to "get on with it" abd to "do the job". I believe we actually have a reputation for "getting on with it".
beerwm said:
I imagine the same could be said of local and international students anywhere. I would guess that someone sent overseas for uni is probably more likely to be hard working and already an achiever, and probably has parent that expect them to do well. I doubt it's fair to compare local vs international without taking anything else into consideration.
mr j,
do you know, and this is fact, that in asian countries, they idolise teachers and academics? yes instead of throwing billions of dollars, fame and luxuries at those that entertain us, like in the western world, they actually treat there acadmecis as celebritys.
Why do they do this? because they are trying to get the children to look at those who are intelligent, and want them to be like that. they are building a brainer, more ambitious society. While we ridicule and put down those "geeks".
We watch MTV and see tommy lee jones smoking a spliff, lazing about with women to his left and right, struggling to put a sentence together.
Why are we lazy and unambitious? the answer is pretty clear.
Once again, im not racist, i love me country more then anything, and i am a white australian surfer, i too was very very lazy, lucky my mind woke up though.
