Storm Financial Group

[Solly]

Hi Everyone,
Have been lurking reading all of the submissions. Solly, you are doing a terrific job putting in the links for the enquiry and news articles. Very much appreciated.

No prob Jifromoz, I understand that Stormers have a lot on their minds at the moment, I hope my posts make it a little easier to track what's happening.

I look forward to one day having a few celebratory drinks with those who have been through so much.

I had another long talk with a Stormer tonight, until the battery on their Nokia gave up. It's great to hear an uplifted tone in their voice, the belief of some glimmer of hope on horizon. I know it's a hard slog, there have been some dark days in the past. But now things are starting to change and change rather quickly. There's now been a "tipping point", the tide is changing, opinion is turning, no longer are Stormers faceless unseen collateral damage in the posturing of the corporate players.

I posted this before and I'll say it again, don't accept a remedy to this event that is anything less than you deserve. Keep the fire in the belly, keep the kinetic energy and momentum up.

If you truly want a positive result never, never give in.
It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, you are the most important person in the argument. Don't stop, falter, fold or capitulate.

Pick your aim point, it's better to go in hard and solid, than to go in long and drift.

 

[Julia]

mmmm for someone professing an appetite for low risk

her words and her actions don't quite add up ?

I thought the same. Ditto the stories of some of the other investors.

I do feel for those who appear not to have been advised they were in margin call (we have yet to be sure whose fault this was, but probably Storm, given many investors appear to have totally delegated all responsibilities to Storm on their behalf) and who could have fronted with the necessary cash.

But those who borrowed so massively on small incomes and inappropriate asset bases surely must have known they were taking a huge risk.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I thought the same. Ditto the stories of some of the other investors.

I do feel for those who appear not to have been advised they were in margin call (we have yet to be sure whose fault this was, but probably Storm, given many investors appear to have totally delegated all responsibilities to Storm on their behalf) and who could have fronted with the necessary cash.

But those who borrowed so massively on small incomes and inappropriate asset bases surely must have known they were taking a huge risk.

I agree Julia,

Its an inescapable fact that folly and a blind belief in the bull market, fed by the Cassimatis model, contributed to bad money management decisions by Storm investors.

gg

 

[Solly]

"Storm Financial taken to court by retired school teacher"

"A RETIRED Townsville school teacher in poor health is the first devastated investor to file a suit after the demise of advisory firm Storm Financial."

More by Anthony Marx in The Courier Mail is here;

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25958136-3122,00.html

Here's the direct link to Ms Rubin's submission to the Inquiry mentioned in the article.


http://www.aph.gov.au/SENATE/committee/corporations_ctte/fps/submissions/sub125.pdf

 

[Judd]

All of the submissions from Storm clients make for very sad reading. The whole saga is sad.

A couple of things come through to me in these submissions:

• there seems to be some fixation with being a self funded retiree (what does it matter where retirement income comes from. What is so dishonourable about receiving Government assistance. That's why I pay tax);
  
• the wish to get off the Age Pension (if you haven't built up income producing assets before you retire, it's too late);
  
• the desire to leave an inheritance (blowed if I know how that would have been remotely feasible with all the debt hanging over the Estate. Anyway the kids names are not on the title deed to your home and they never paid a cent towards paying off the mortgage or building up your assets, so what gives them the right to your assets?); and
  
• many suggestions that there be more regulations and rules and regulations and rules, and so forth (Well, it is going to cost you and as a result you probably wont be able to afford detailed advice. In any event you cannot legislation for ethics and the lack of them is the essential issue which got many people into trouble in the first place.)

 

[shibby]

I thought the same. Ditto the stories of some of the other investors
But those who borrowed so massively on small incomes and inappropriate asset bases surely must have known they were taking a huge risk.

We were lied to, what is so hard to understand about that.

Those are reasonable comments. I have several friends who are very intelligent, all tertiary educated, successful in their own career fields, but woefully ignorant about financial matters. I don't really know why this is, but my attempts to interest them in putting their money to work is met with "oh yes, I know you're right. I should be doing something, but I'm afraid of the share market".

There is a little inconsistency here in what you are saying
It’s all right for your tertiary educated friends to be woefully ignorant but not for Ms Rubin.

I always feel Julia a little sour grapes on your part you were conned by someone you trusted and the Solicitor got way with it. Therefore when people who stand up and fight and actually look like winning the battle, you are contemptuous and always looking for the negativity.

Instead of concentrating on how naive people are just look at how brave she is standing up there knowing she will be criticized by all and sundry, yet she does it.
She is fighting that fight for all of us. I am not even with BOQ but what she does helps me with the ANZ and any of the others like NAB and Westpac.
I have been around lawyers half my life and it “sure aint” easy going to court, what a brave woman she is, applaud her, she is the public face of this next stage of the Storm battle.

I applaud you Ms Rubin and don’t let the comments of a few who have never walked in your shoes take away just how brave you are. Stay Strong.

 

[chrisgee]

yep so much to read again this week- i read in the afr that mr jelick wasnt too happy that the wrong people in the bank were being targeted- oh well thats the way it goes-maybe they should have been more careful lending out other peoples money--its great to see things starting to get moving- good luck with the action with the bank of bananas- lucky we dont have anything to with them-and mr scatini mention the fraud word- i wonder where that is going to go ??- looks like he may know more about things than most people-
can wait to see if the real truth comes out- hang in there guys-lets show everybody that the stomies are a real force to deal with and they will curse the day they crossed us--

 

[stormedup]

Helen Rubin's son Paul was Storm/Ignite's golden boy. Been there since finishing studies, worked on asx/research and their useless, inadequate Phormula client information package. (It was so advanced, they needed to create and monitor client cash flows on an old excel spreadsheet!!)

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Helen Rubin's son Paul was Storm/Ignite's golden boy. Been there since finishing studies, worked on asx/research and their useless, inadequate Phormula client information package. (It was so advanced, they needed to create and monitor client cash flows on an old excel spreadsheet!!)

Fair dinkum ????

gg

 

[darkside]

Helen Rubin's son Paul was Storm/Ignite's golden boy. Been there since finishing studies, worked on asx/research and their useless, inadequate Phormula client information package. (It was so advanced, they needed to create and monitor client cash flows on an old excel spreadsheet!!)

Ahh, that is so true, the Phormula Software pack was written on C++ with Excel 2003 used to tally up the portfolios but was never intended to cope with monitoring or even handling lots of data , nor would it have been capable of identifying individual client portfolios.
Yet this was touted and purchased off themselves (ignite software) EC's own company for a shade over a million dollars, nice work if you can get it.

 

[Solly]

Fair dinkum ????

gg

gg, my thoughts as well...

 

[Solly]

Helen Rubin's son Paul was Storm/Ignite's golden boy. Been there since finishing studies, worked on asx/research and their useless, inadequate Phormula client information package. (It was so advanced, they needed to create and monitor client cash flows on an old excel spreadsheet!!)

Ahh, that is so true, the Phormula Software pack was written on C++ with Excel 2003 used to tally up the portfolios but was never intended to cope with monitoring or even handling lots of data , nor would it have been capable of identifying individual client portfolios.
Yet this was touted and purchased off themselves (ignite software) EC's own company for a shade over a million dollars, nice work if you can get it.

I remember reading in the prospectus for the failed float that "Phormula", was used by Storm to "assess and monitor the client’s borrowing and investing capacity" , it was also used "to identify market opportunities across the client base and provides clients with timely investment advice".

It also "identifies clients with Step Investment opportunities
and automatically generates Statements of Additional Advice which are sent to clients..."

The mind boggles...

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I agree Julia,

Its an inescapable fact that folly and a blind belief in the bull market, fed by the Cassimatis model, contributed to bad money management decisions by Storm investors.

gg

Here's the direct link to Ms Rubin's submission to the Inquiry mentioned in the article.


http://www.aph.gov.au/SENATE/committee/corporations_ctte/fps/submissions/sub125.pdf

Helen Rubin's son Paul was Storm/Ignite's golden boy. Been there since finishing studies, worked on asx/research and their useless, inadequate Phormula client information package. (It was so advanced, they needed to create and monitor client cash flows on an old excel spreadsheet!!)

Fair dinkum ????

gg

Ahh, that is so true, the Phormula Software pack was written on C++ with Excel 2003 used to tally up the portfolios but was never intended to cope with monitoring or even handling lots of data , nor would it have been capable of identifying individual client portfolios.
Yet this was touted and purchased off themselves (ignite software) EC's own company for a shade over a million dollars, nice work if you can get it.

Is this whole submission exercise serious or a greek farce.

Let us hope that Bernie Ripoll and Ian McDonald have a full transcript of this thread in front of them before they read the submissions.

It is totally unbelievable.

gg

 

[stormedup]

Solly, your comments on Phormula are what the Cassimatis family would have liked the system to do but that was a bit of wishful thinking. They had been working on it for years. EC & JC even went off to London to try and sell it a few years ago.

They didn't even own it then!! They had been contracting the work out to a couple of software developers for years. It was only when they recruited some new blood (incest appeard to be rife) that they were advised they didn't own it. I have heard that they didn't even have user rights. Not one person in the company had even thought of this for about 5 years. As a result, Ignite bought the development company. I understand that those poor blighters sold on similar terms as the Storm subsidiaries did. That is, Ignite take over the assets and pay the wages, but will only pay for the purchase (in shares) when the company lists.

 

[Solly]

.............The big wigs have left 3 months of sittings in the courts for sept-nov 2011.

gg

gg, after the recent developments it looks like it's going to be an interesting time in '11.

I sent a Telex to Lennons, I'm sure they will book out quickly,
I'm just waiting on a reply...

 

[Julia]

[/B]
We were lied to, what is so hard to understand about that.

Those are reasonable comments. I have several friends who are very intelligent, all tertiary educated, successful in their own career fields, but woefully ignorant about financial matters. I don't really know why this is, but my attempts to interest them in putting their money to work is met with "oh yes, I know you're right. I should be doing something, but I'm afraid of the share market".

There is a little inconsistency here in what you are saying
It’s all right for your tertiary educated friends to be woefully ignorant but not for Ms Rubin.

Whatever makes you think that I consider that "it's all right for my tertiary educated friends to be ignorant" etc? Can't you see that I was using them as an example of people who are bright in other ways, but nonetheless still financially challenged in their thinking?

The fundamental difference between them and Storm investors, however, is that they have not borrowed amounts they could never expect to pay back or service loans on. My criticism of them relates purely to their reluctance to sensibly invest money rather than leave it long term sitting in cash deposits.

I always feel Julia a little sour grapes on your part you were conned by someone you trusted and the Solicitor got way with it. Therefore when people who stand up and fight and actually look like winning the battle, you are contemptuous and always looking for the negativity.

You're welcome to form whatever view you wish. The solicitor in my case didn't actually 'get away with it' in terms of not being taken to task, although he didn't go to jail.

ASIC's intervention, however, as in many other instances, occurred too late to prevent my investment being lost.
It was a long time ago, I simply wrote it off and moved on. These days I wouldn't give that amount a second thought.

Nothing will change my belief that anyone who borrows more than they can reasonably service is taking a huge risk, or similarly who borrows massively on the assumption the market will always go up. If that makes me contemptuous, so be it.

Be that as it may, I'm very sorry for anyone who has lost their home, or is at risk of this happening. I've previously acknowledged that it seems clear the banks' lending practices have left a good deal to be desired and if Stormers receive some compensation then I will be pleased for them/you.

 

[shibby]

Whatever makes you think that I consider that "it's all right for my tertiary educated friends to be ignorant" etc? Can't you see that I was using them as an example of people who are bright in other ways, but nonetheless still financially challenged in their thinking?

The fundamental difference between them and Storm investors, however, is that they have not borrowed amounts they could never expect to pay back or service loans on.

And my point is, SO FAR, NOT YET !!!!!!!!

Dont forget we had homes we had money in term deposits we were "bright in other ways"

 

[Judd]

And my point is, SO FAR, NOT YET !!!!!!!!

Dont forget we had homes we had money in term deposits we were "bright in other ways"

Raises an interesting issue. At what point does personal responsibility for investment decisions, or any other decision, kick in as opposed to accepting or relying on other entities for a decision making process.

The proposed alterations to contracts for unfair clauses could have some really fascinating outcomes.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

gg, after the recent developments it looks like it's going to be an interesting time in '11.

I sent a Telex to Lennons, I'm sure they will book out quickly,
I'm just waiting on a reply...

Unfortunately the picture doesn't show where we'll be.

It is on the pool level, garden apartments with the jacuzzi.

Its all booked mate.

gg

 

[Solly]

"ANZ admits lending policy failure"

"Customers caught up in Storm
ANZ admits areas of non-compliance with lending policies for some of its customers caught up in the Storm collapse."

More here by Victoria Papandrea in Investor Daily;

http://www.investordaily.com/cps/rde/xchg/id/style/7232.htm