James Hardie Directors Laughing

[dutchie]

The Directors et al of James Hardie are laughing all the way to the bank.

How can ASIC do its job when its not backed up by the courts.

Its not what you know but who you know!

 

[Fishbulb]

I hate JH with a passion. Evil sneaky bastards; the epitome of the ugly corporation.

 

[Fishbulb]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/5842007/james-hardie-ex-chief-fined-350-000/

And here's why

 

[jono1887]

The Directors et al of James Hardie are laughing all the way to the bank.

How can ASIC do its job when its not backed up by the courts.

Its not what you know but who you know!

I dont think they'll be laughing too hard considering they wont be able to manage a company for 5 years.

 

[dutchie]

I dont think they'll be laughing too hard considering they wont be able to manage a company for 5 years.

But their wives can ( for a family business) and they still have plenty of money as the court was very kind to their bank balances.

 

[prawn_86]

Yep, if your going to commit a corporate crime in a Western country, Aus is the place to do it. You can just about count the number of directors/managers that have actually gone to jail on one hand.

The US regulators/courts are much tougher. Not sure about Europe...

 

[Buckeroo]

I hope once they get these guys, they go to work on McDonald's, KFC, Red Rooster etc for all the heart disease they have & will cause.

And next, the power companies with their line towers giving people brain tumors.

Its about time companies are held to account!

Cheers

 

[Julia]

But their wives can ( for a family business) and they still have plenty of money as the court was very kind to their bank balances.

Their bank balances won't feel a thing,dutchie. The fines will be covered by the company's Directors' insurance.

I hope once they get these guys, they go to work on McDonald's, KFC, Red Rooster etc for all the heart disease they have & will cause.




Cheers

That's a quite different situation, Buckeroo. There is plenty of advice out in the public domain about the dangers of junk food. If people still make the choice to eat it, then they need to take responsibility for that.

The asbestos situation exposed people to a dreadful disease without their having any choice in the matter.

Maybe their spouses can still run companies, but the public disgrace will finish the careers of these people for ever, and so it should.

The judiciary needs a damn reality check.

 

[Smurf1976]

I hope once they get these guys, they go to work on McDonald's, KFC, Red Rooster etc for all the heart disease they have & will cause.

And next, the power companies with their line towers giving people brain tumors.

Its about time companies are held to account!

Cheers

Asbestos - the danger was known when they started manufacturing with it and JH simply kept quiet as, by the way, did various state and federal goverment organisations (most notoriously the former SECV).

Fast food - the dangers are widely known to the general public. Your problem if you choose to eat it.

Power lines - not proven for a start, and government regulation of price and reliability standards effectively forces transmission companies to use primarily overhead lines. The onus there would thus seem to be on the regulators, not line owners who are simply obeying the law.

And then there's soft drinks, alcohol, solariums, salt, Ipod's, mobile phones, unflued heaters, nightclubs, laser printers and plenty more. All proven or strongly suspected of causing harm to human health under some or most likely usage scenarios and all still perfectly legal.

The primary issue with JH is they knew exactly what they were doing, it was not common knowledge to the general public and it was avoidable (that is, alternatives were available for most applications of asbestos).

 

[Buckeroo]

Ok, I'm in no way condoning what James Hardie has done in the past & I'm saddened by the many people that have been affected.

But are the current directors really the ones that kept the dangers of asbestos a secret? I've known the dangers of asbestos for at least the last 10-15 years. So are not the current directors being punished more for not acting on their compensation liabilities?

If this is so, then won't this set a precedent that won't be good for any business. I'm sure many businesses have skeletons in their closets ready to be opened.

Cheers

 

[dutchie]

Ok, I'm in no way condoning what James Hardie has done in the past & I'm saddened by the many people that have been affected.

But are the current directors really the ones that kept the dangers of asbestos a secret? I've known the dangers of asbestos for at least the last 10-15 years. So are not the current directors being punished more for not acting on their compensation liabilities?

If this is so, then won't this set a precedent that won't be good for any business. I'm sure many businesses have skeletons in their closets ready to be opened.

Cheers

The directors are being rapped over the knuckles (with a feather) for lying to the market (and thus affecting trading results) not over the asbestos issue.

 

[Buckeroo]

The directors are being rapped over the knuckles (with a feather) for lying to the market (and thus affecting trading results) not over the asbestos issue.

Yeah, yeah, officially its about disclosure - but this is a load of ASIC croak because just about every company in Australia avoids disclosing something! Get real

Cheers

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I agree the directors of JH are laughing. what a joke. The fines are parking fines to these guys.

gg

 

[moXJO]

I had two friends die from asbestosis over the last 3 years, and know a few more with lung problems because of it. Back when I was an apprentice there wasn't really much information about the dangers of it. And a good portion of trades had a lot of half cocked ideas and thoughts as to how to work with it. I still meet people now who think it’s safe to work with.

 

[dutchie]

Yeah, yeah, officially its about disclosure - but this is a load of ASIC croak because just about every company in Australia avoids disclosing something! Get real

Cheers

So are you saying we should just let companies continue doing it because everyone is doing it.

Maybe we should increase ASIC power and have courts back them up better.

 

[Buckeroo]

So are you saying we should just let companies continue doing it because everyone is doing it.

Maybe we should increase ASIC power and have courts back them up better.

No, all companies should be treated the same & should be held accountable.

Yes, totally agree, ASIC is lame at the moment & this particular situation is just spin because the general community want the companies balls. But its all based on emotion, nothing to do with across the board justice on the stock market.

No doubt, Telstra will be ASIC's next target as its public image is not much better and the Government wants to tear it apart.

Cheers

 

[jono1887]

So are you saying we should just let companies continue doing it because everyone is doing it.

Maybe we should increase ASIC power and have courts back them up better.

maybe we should hang them? : what do you propose they get?

 

[trading_rookie]

I dont think they'll be laughing too hard considering they wont be able to manage a company for 5 years.

The CEO, Macdonald is banned for 15 years - basically ruining any chance of running a company in Oz again and a fine of AUD350K. No wonder he and 3 other directors are now working in the US!

Shafron got 7 years and a fine of AUD75K. And the rest got 5 years and fines of AUD30-35K.

But their wives can ( for a family business) and they still have plenty of money as the court was very kind to their bank balances.

Not sure if that applies to former female director Hellicar ;-)

Comparing this with Rodney Alder he breached his duty of care 3-4 times and got banned from running a company for 20 years. McDonald only breached one duty of care and got 15 years. So I don't think he got off lightly, 'cept maybe a stint in jail would have been suffice.

 

[Smurf1976]

I had two friends die from asbestosis over the last 3 years, and know a few more with lung problems because of it. Back when I was an apprentice there wasn't really much information about the dangers of it. And a good portion of trades had a lot of half cocked ideas and thoughts as to how to work with it. I still meet people now who think it’s safe to work with.

Off topic but worth saying given the seriousness of it I think...

I've had more than enough to do with this stuff and I've done the removal course (for my info only, I didn't proceed to obtain a removalists license).

In short, it's safe if in good condition with no fibres coming loose (for example, if it's painted and not being disturbed). But anyone who works with the stuff without taking proper precautions is outright mad in my opinion. It kills, that's a fact.

Renovators beware - a lot of houses contain asbestos products. I don't have an official figure but we're talking about maybe half of all homes not just one or two here and there. Bathroom and kitchen walls (interior walls), behind shower tiles, around heaters, in lino or floor tiles, under the eaves... lots of places you might find it in addition to the obvious ones like fibro sheeting, fake brick sheeting, roofing etc.

Familiarise yourself with how to identify it if you're renovating any house built before the late 1980's, otherwise get a professional to have a look for you. Removal can be expensive (but it's cheaper than a funeral) but an inspection and/or analysis of any suspect material isn't expensive - and it's you're life and that of your family we're talking about here.

Greatest tragedy is when dad gets a mass exposure and the children end up being the ones affected medically because of exposure via dad's overalls, work clothes etc.

Even plant pots were made of asbestos at one stage (true). Lots of it around even today...

 

[knocker]

There you go:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/hardies-deadly-driveway-legacy-kept-secret-20090822-eua5.html