More Religious Nuts

[ktrianta]

It seems to me that the debate really comes down to differing belief systems.

For the athiest, the belief is something like this:

All space, time and matter miraculously came into existence by some process we know not how. Then somehow, this matter exploded (we have no idea how this happened though). After a long period of time, stars galaxies etc. all formed and whilst many theories abound there are all educated guesses with many problems.

From here, matter somehow organised itself into self replicationg single celled organisms which were able to reproduce and then over time, these cells as they replicated due to genetic copying mistakes were all able to add the additional information for fins, wings, lungs etc. leading up to the pinnacle(at least for now) of humans -all by a serious of random genetic copying mistakes. Not asking for much faith as this point hey?

And the results of these random explosions and genetic copying errors leads to me on my keyboard punching out letters on my computer which someone somewhere can read and make sense of.

Logically then, if this is all we are, then life is indeed futile and all morality is relative and indeed we are nothing more than a collection of random atoms, then why believe anything I say or what anyone else says on this thread?

The alternative is to believe that there is some creator who was involved in the process. If this is the case, then is it logically to assume that the creator will have interaaction with the creation? If so, then should we search to find out about this creator? Does the creator give us a basis for morality, knowledge and a way to explain the world?

 

[bellenuit]

For the athiest, the belief is something like this:

..................

Much simpler. An atheist doesn't believe in God. That's it.

How atheists believe the world came into being is something each may hold a different opinion on.

 

[awg]

I was bought up in a religion that some regard as a cult.

They were really decent people at heart, but did not believe in accepting medical treatment

You can only imagine what sort of problems this brings

I rejected this from a very young age, against great resistance, and am agnostic at best.

I am normally polite and respectful of other peoplles religious views

but if you are ever being proselytized to your annoyance, what I have done a couple of times, is tell them I am a Satanist...seems to shut them up.

I'm not, btw

 

[Timmy]

I was bought up in a religion that some regard as a cult.

There are plenty about.

but did not believe in accepting medical treatment

There seem to be many people around with weird beliefs, any idea how this one came about, what purpose it is/was thought to serve?

Well done getting out.

 

[awg]

There seem to be many people around with weird beliefs, any idea how this one came about, what purpose it is/was thought to serve?

Well done getting out.

I dont consider it a cult personally, many intellectuals are followers, and especially people who have miraculously survived serious illness, not surprisingly.

They never persecuted anyone that chose to stop believing

it has many excellent aspects

I could never accept the non-medical ideas,

and at the time, as a teenager, I rejected the notion of Gods existence


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science

Medicine

Many Christian Scientists use their healing system as their first choice for treatment over drugs and surgery. They believe in following what they believe to be the example of Jesus, bringing the real or ideal man more clearly into thought. Christian Scientists believe that Jesus was "the Wayshower", a proof by example of the divine method of healing sin, sickness and death. According to the Christian Science belief, there are no limits to the type of medical conditions that can be healed through prayer.

The Christian Science Church does not forbid the use of medicine by its members, nor does the Church exert informal pressure on them to eschew it. An exception is the case of Christian Science Centers which may require certain employees to sign a statement of principles.[citation needed] Though Christian Scientists respect the work of medical practitioners, most of them prefer to use prayer and to rely on God. Christian Scientists who choose to rely on medical treatment for a specific problem normally give up Christian Science treatment for the period of treatment. This is because one treatment approaches healing from a material and the other from a spiritual perspective. Because the method of prayer includes denying the reality of matter and affirming the perfection of the individual – while medicine is used to fix matter and a person with a problem – these two means are seen as incompatible and indeed as tending to work against each other when used simultaneously. Most Christian Scientists are practical when it comes to using material aids such as vision correction, splints for broken bones and dental services and will use what seems appropriate at the time. However, numerous claims of healings of near- and far-sightedness, dental problems and broken bones have been reported in the periodicals published by the Church.[11]

 

[darkside]

Much simpler. An atheist doesn't believe in God. That's it.

How atheists believe the world came into being is something each may hold a different opinion on.

Thank you, i wasn't going to waste my time on an explanation, but thats about it , we don't believe in god, , end of story. We don't have to justify it, feel guilty about it, or even offer an alternative.

Perhaps i should walk around the neighbourhood annoying people with my beliefs, hand them a blank piece of paper and say " no news is good news".

 

[trainspotter]

A bit like Kung Fu Panda style? Hand them the blank bit of paper only to realise that the secret is YOU and not some deity to be used as a crutch to get you through this "B grade movie" called life? :

 

[darkside]

A bit like Kung Fu Panda style? Hand them the blank bit of paper only to realise that the secret is YOU and not some deity to be used as a crutch to get you through this "B grade movie" called life? :

Yes , so true, they have to make the decisions, take responsibility and realise
those with minds uncluttered by fear of gods and monsters can accept that ‘life’ has no ‘meaning’ per se. ‘Life’ simply is, and we should accept it gratefully and make the most of it.

 

[trainspotter]

Kinda like the way you think on this one darkside. "I exist, therefore I am" sort of juxtaposition kinda thingy. I like it. No burden to carry. No guilt. Be completely responsible for your own actions etc. Yep ... suits me fine.

 

[ktrianta]

Yes , so true, they have to make the decisions, take responsibility and realise
those with minds uncluttered by fear of gods and monsters can accept that ‘life’ has no ‘meaning’ per se. ‘Life’ simply is, and we should accept it gratefully and make the most of it.

Except of course that you take offence to those people who make the most of life as they see it and view them as religious nuts and pure evil, don't you see the irony!!!!

 

[ktrianta]

Much simpler. An atheist doesn't believe in God. That's it.

How atheists believe the world came into being is something each may hold a different opinion on.

True enough, but ultimately an athiest has no choice but to believe in a materialistic explaination no matter how absurd the proposition is.

 

[darkside]

Except of course that you take offence to those people who make the most of life as they see it and view them as religious nuts and pure evil, don't you see the irony!!!!

No i take offence at you people brainwashing your kids and trying to ram your ridiculous beliefs down our throats , your religion is of no interest to me, all i can do is hope you get better.

The point is not whether atheists criticise religion but whether religion can stand up to criticism. So far no religion could stand up to criticism, that is why religion has had to resort to blasphemy laws and the might of the state to silence and crush opposition. In some Muslim countries, anyone who criticizes religion can be charged with blasphemy and sentenced to death.

Athiests don't have that luxury, we just have common sense and don't believe in the existence of gods, goddesses, fairies, spirits, angels, ghosts, trolls, leprechauns, bunyips, nymphs and Santa.

 

[ktrianta]

No i take offence at you people brainwashing your kids and trying to ram your ridiculous beliefs down our throats , your religion is of no interest to me, all i can do is hope you get better.

The point is not whether atheists criticise religion but whether religion can stand up to criticism. So far no religion could stand up to criticism, that is why religion has had to resort to blasphemy laws and the might of the state to silence and crush opposition. In some Muslim countries, anyone who criticizes religion can be charged with blasphemy and sentenced to death.

Athiests don't have that luxury, we just have common sense and don't believe in the existence of gods, goddesses, fairies, spirits, angels, ghosts, trolls, leprechauns, bunyips, nymphs and Santa.

Seems to me that you are the one who does not like criticism over your double standards. Guess that as long as they believe what you believe that is OK, but your post highlights your intolerance. It is the height of arrogance to say that just athiests have common sense and then to try equate belief with the tooth fairy etc. with belief in God shows the levels you wil stoop when you fail to address the arguments.

Guess it just means you do not have any solid arguments and just resort to put downs and elephant hurling to justify your position.

 

[wayneL]

Athiests don't have that luxury, we just have common sense and don't believe in the existence of gods, goddesses, fairies, spirits, angels, ghosts, trolls, leprechauns, bunyips, nymphs and Santa.

Trolls definitely exist. They all live on the Internet.

The others all live around areas where certain species of mushrooms grow.

 

[darkside]

Trolls definitely exist. They all live on the Internet.

The others all live around areas where certain species of mushrooms grow.

Well , yes that is true and thanks to trainspotter and his sense of humour , "Broadleaf Entertainment Plants" also encourage all those mythalogical creatures.

 

[trainspotter]

I keep my "broadleaf entertainment plants" at the bottom of the garden with the fairies. Who in turn hang out with the goblins who cultivate the mushrooms. The blue meanies variety of course.

 

[darkside]

Seems to me that you are the one who does not like criticism over your double standards. Guess that as long as they believe what you believe that is OK, but your post highlights your intolerance. It is the height of arrogance to say that just athiests have common sense and then to try equate belief with the tooth fairy etc. with belief in God shows the levels you wil stoop when you fail to address the arguments.

Guess it just means you do not have any solid arguments and just resort to put downs and elephant hurling to justify your position.

No. i have no problems with your beliefs, there is no double standand, and as for put downs , definitely not something i do, and elephant hurling , are you on the mushies as well !

But , clearly you don't understand how a forum works, if you have read this thread it is about using religion to justify torture and killing and as you have been asked on a few occasions do you agree that its right or wrong, we dont want to know about your misguided beliefs in supernatural beings, we want your opinion on justifying murder in the name of religion

 

[trainspotter]

I could murder a beer on a hot day in the name of religion. As in "For Godsake woman, get me a beer will ya, I'm bloody thirsty and been working like a dog !"

 

[ktrianta]

No. i have no problems with your beliefs, there is no double standand, and as for put downs , definitely not something i do, and elephant hurling , are you on the mushies as well !

But , clearly you don't understand how a forum works, if you have read this thread it is about using religion to justify torture and killing and as you have been asked on a few occasions do you agree that its right or wrong, we dont want to know about your misguided beliefs in supernatural beings, we want your opinion on justifying murder in the name of religion

Wow, it looks like you have forgotten what you wrote in your previous post. Guess that the athiestic Governments had a habit of re-writing history so why not you?

As for the question, as I said before tell me what is right and wrong and how you come to that and then I will answer, but heres a hint, don't refer to the 10 commandments.

 

[bunyip]

Athiests don't have that luxury, we just have common sense and don't believe in the existence of gods, goddesses, fairies, spirits, angels, ghosts, trolls, leprechauns, bunyips, nymphs and Santa.

Hey, steady on there Darkside.....of course we believe in bunyips!