Has Kevin Rudd misled parliament?

[Quincy]

Just a summary of yesterday's events in parliament : -


Labor blocks inquiry into OzCar affair

Federal parliament descended into farce on Wednesday as Labor blocked opposition attempts to set up a judicial inquiry into the OzCar affair.

Amid constant, lengthy interruptions to question time, the government used its numbers to shut down opposition moves to censure Treasurer Wayne Swan over allegations that he misled parliament earlier this month.


http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/829513/opposition-targets-swan-over-ozcar-saga

Thursday, June 25, 2009

 

[rederob]

Just a summary of yesterday's events in parliament : -

Labor blocks inquiry into OzCar affair

Federal parliament descended into farce on Wednesday as Labor blocked opposition attempts to set up a judicial inquiry into the OzCar affair.

Amid constant, lengthy interruptions to question time, the government used its numbers to shut down opposition moves to censure Treasurer Wayne Swan over allegations that he misled parliament earlier this month.
Thursday, June 25, 2009

Turnbull's case against Swan rests on what Swan did for a constituent that he would not do for another constituent. So far there is no evidence that suggests Swan did anything other than he should.
The only contention is that Swan may have given Grant some "special" or other beneficial treatment. If there were to be a judicial inquiry it would hinge on what could be defined as "special".
Turnbull's case against Swan is currently as thin as one could get, and to suggest it warrants a judicial inquiry is an indulgence in pettiness.
On the other hand, Grech gave evidence that Turnbull relied on to pursue Rudd. The nature of that evidence was false and has a likelihood of criminal charges being laid against its perpetrators.
If the rumour mill were to be believed, the Liberal party has computers tied to Grech's, and Turnbull has admitted an association with Grech that he now refuses to answer further questions about. In this game of join the dots, we begin to draw a picture where Turnbull's head appears in the guillotine that that Labor successfully brought down on yesterday's proceedings.

 

[Tink]

I think this is all pretty sad..

Turnbull has become so obsessed with Rudd, he is going to end up throwing his career down the toilet.

The way he is now, Labor is better leaving him there rather than asking him to resign, as Scanspeak mentioned, as he is just passing everything through - alcopops being one which they werent happy about.

He knows he has lost the numbers so who knows what his plan is now..

 

[MrBurns]

All these bludgers have now gone on holidays, what a farce, how much has all this useless debate cost us over the past 2 weeks ?

Oh by the way who's running the country while all this is going on ?

 

[rederob]

So we now have Turnbull conceding there is no case against Rudd: This thread is dead.

But we also have Turnbull, Abetz and Grech meeting secretly, before the Senate hearing where Grech raised the matter of the fake email.
This places Turnbull in an invidious position as there are serious questions being raised about "coaching" or even coercion of Grech.
Today in the Seante Abetz' complicity was revealed as he used Opposition numbers to avoid scrutiny.

Turnbull will need the 6 week Winter Recess to recover, if at all it is possible. Grech is damaged goods. The secret meeting will be played out for all its worth by Labor over the next week, although the Canberra media will take a breather along with parliamentarians.

In the background the AFP, Audit, and Parliamentary officers will be filling in the missing “details” and reporting with any significant finds. If Swan is hiding anything more, it will be flushed out: All the materials relating to Grant are “unclassified” and can be dug up through FOI. More likely we will find that Turnbull’s association with Grech post 4 June Senate testimony will be the real smoking gun. Rudd will be buoyed, Swan relieved, and Labor looking for a February 2010 election.

 

[Bafana]

LOL it's not dead even if the Libs would like to be.

Turnbull has to learn about consequences and that's what we are all waiting for.

 

[Tink]

LOL @ MrBurns

I agree - waste of time and money

 

[Calliope]

So we now have Turnbull conceding there is no case against Rudd: This thread is dead.
... Rudd will be buoyed, Swan relieved, and Labor looking for a February 2010 election.

The government can deploy the full weight of the law and government agencies against the opposition and Grech because they are looking for alleged criminal activity.

Swan's misdemeanours, on the other hand, broke no laws. Misleading (i.e. lying) to parliament about giving Grant special treatment is not a crime. It is merely a breach of the Westminster convention, which in the eyes of the Labor party, is much lower on their list of standards, than looking after Labor mates.

The Westminster system only works if the minister resigns or the PM wants to get rid of him, and in this case he dare not. Every man and his dog knows that Rudd instructed Swan and his own treasury adviser to look after Grant, and it doesn't pay to displease Mr Rudd. Otherwise there is no logical reason why they should single Grant out for special attention.

 

[kincella]

the thread is far from dead.....where there is smoke there is usually a fire....

I wonder how many of those foreign business trips we taxpayer have forked out for...just so the pm could lobby for business , for his mate Grant again.....

Remember the old saying...when you are onto a good thing...stick to it....

so even though the first email...MAY have been a dud....all the others were not dudds...pun intended...swan is still in trouble...and it will not go away...

the Libs will smell blood again...this time on the biggest DUDD we have ever seen....oh and I would like to see the tax office look more closely at that property...where the now pm...left the air co and lights running for months...to pretend he lived there as his PPOR...when it was an investment property...and avoided paying CGT....on the sale.....that was reported in various papers when he first became leader of the opposition
I am not as much interested in politics...as I am with dishonest people scamming the system when they take office...
but lets move on to more current scams he is involved with

extract........................

Rudd in new mates lobbying stormRichard Baker and Philip Dorling
June 26, 2009
KEVIN Rudd is facing allegations he lobbied for a whitegoods company formerly owned by his car dealer friend John Grant and a controversial Queensland property developer who recently faced drugs and weapons charges.

Opposition frontbencher Tony Abbott yesterday asked the Prime Minister if he had ever made representations on behalf of a Queensland whitegoods importer, Aussie Rent Pty Ltd.

Mr Rudd said he would have to "check his records" to determine any involvement he might have had with the company, which was dissolved in November last year.

On Monday, Mr Rudd's office was asked by The Age if the Prime Minister had made representations on behalf of Aussie Rent and its importation of whitegoods while on any of his trips to China as Labor's foreign affairs spokesman.

Mr Rudd's office took two days to respond and did not answer the question. A spokesman said only: "All of Mr Rudd's interactions with Mr Grant have been entirely appropriate."

Company documents show Aussie Rent was established in 2004 by Ipswich car dealer Mr Grant and Queensland property developer George Cheihk.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/rudd-in-new-mates-lobbying-storm-20090626-cyfy.html

 

[rederob]

Swan's misdemeanours, on the other hand, broke no laws. Misleading (i.e. lying) to parliament about giving Grant special treatment is not a crime.

What exactly is this "special" treatment. Nothing prevented Swan or Treasury from taking the actions they did, for Grant and others.
Apparently it's "special" according to the Opposition because Swan was kept informed and, apparently, because Swan actually spoke to a constituent about a matter that affected his business.
Turnbull's case now only relies on there being something else that shows Swan's actions were greater that he has revealed to date. The Grech email wa the smoking gun, but backfired.

 

[rederob]

I am not as much interested in politics...as I am with dishonest people scamming the system when they take office...

That's a lie!
If you were interested in dishonesty you would be questioning the Grech fake email, and Turnbull's association with Grech. Not to mention how Abetz read from the fake email at the Senate hearing while questioning Grech.
Turnbull is refusing to answer questions about the fake email, claiming "privilege" and invoking weird legalistic conventions. And he's refusing to provide any details of his association with Grech, apart from acknowledging he has a right to speak to public servants.
While Swan is releasing as much information as possible about "utegate", Turnbull has drawn the wagons.
The media smell Turnbull's attempts to "hide" from scrutiny and are going to dig even harder because they just know there is a lot more Liberal involvement in the Grech case than has been revealed to date.
Fake emails, deception and silences trump "special treatment". And we top this off with all the "official" enquiries likely to dig up the dirt that Grech has unwittingly scattered through Opposition ranks.
If Turnbull does return to the next Sitting Day, as leader, Rudd's machine will run at full tilt to get in place a double dissolution trigger.

 

[Calliope]

What exactly is this "special" treatment. Nothing prevented Swan or Treasury from taking the actions they did, for Grant and others.
Apparently it's "special" according to the Opposition because Swan was kept informed and, apparently, because Swan actually spoke to a constituent about a matter that affected his business.
Turnbull's case now only relies on there being something else that shows Swan's actions were greater that he has revealed to date. The Grech email wa the smoking gun, but backfired.

In this affair "special" means giving your boss's mate favourable treatment, not granted to others. As I said, Swan and Rudd did nothing illegal, (to my knowledge) however Swan misled Parliament and Rudd was complicit in it.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25692450-5013404,00.html

Mr Swan yesterday repeatedly refused to say whether Mr Grant was the only car dealer who got a special phone call from him.

On three occasions on the ABC yesterday morning, Mr Swan avoided answering the question, instead repeating: "Well it's a matter of public record that I spoke to Mr Grant."

Asked again, he said: "Well it's a matter of public record that I spoke to Mr Grant, and I spoke to many other people."

He was, however, not able to name any other car dealers he had spoken to.

 

[rederob]

In this affair "special" means giving your boss's mate favourable treatment, not granted to others. As I said, Swan and Rudd did nothing illegal, (to my knowledge) however Swan misled Parliament and Rudd was complicit in it.

The problem with your case is that the precedents set by countless previous Ministers will show that from time to time their Departments and Officers keep them thoroughly informed about matters affecting certain constituents and matters affecting them.
What Swan did in Grant's case was not "special", but certainly fortuitous. I dare say that Treasury officials had a prior knowledge of Rudd's relationship with Grant, and possibly also that Swan had bought a car from him. In that context, and speaking as one who worked in Canberra, it would have been poor form to not ensure that the Minister knew we were on the ball: Read, it's a good career move.
What Turnbull needs is something from Swan, not faked, that shows he had directed his Department to provide a level service greater that what would otherwise be offered. Without that, there simply is no special treatment that warrants pursuing.

 

[Uncle Barry]

Hi Rederob.

Lets all be interested in honesty.
Because it would be nice as a tax payer.

May I ask, as you appear to know some much about Mr KRUDD's personal affairs,

What branch of the labour party do you belong to ?
What position do you hold ?
Are you related to the person called KRUDD ?

If you are none of the above, how on Earth do you know so much about the party and this PM ?

Kind regards,
UB

 

[MrBurns]

I heard Rudd is now a gay icon, has anybody else heard that yet ?

 

[rederob]

Hi Rederob.

Lets all be interested in honesty.
Some questions posed..
Kind regards,
UB

Uncle Barry
I once contributed to Greenpeace under a false name, because at the time using my real name would not have been helpful.
I once voted Liberal.
I mostly vote for Greens and Independants.
I personally know my Labor State Member, and scrutineer for Labor at elections. But I don't think my State Member knows I don't actually vote Labor, so please don't tell anyone.
I have no association with Rudd or Swan, although photographs would reveal that I have met Craig Emerson on occasions.
I trust this level of honesty meets your approval.
By the way, I think I just saw Elvis.
False alarm.
It was MJ.

 

[Uncle Barry]

Good on you Red.
Just like your hero, you don't answer questions either !

Thank for you time,

 

[Calliope]

That's a lie!

I don't think you are being very wise calling a fellow poster a liar, when you are trying to defend a serial liar like your hero Rudd.

 

[MrBurns]

I don't think you are being very wise calling a fellow poster a liar, when you are trying to defend a serial liar like your hero Rudd.

I agree, and Rudd's also a gay icon now did you hear ? Seems so right.

 

[kincella]

I read it somewhere this week, it was insinuated he was gay...the article compared him and spouse to another well known couple....I cannot recall who or the article...I just thought to myself...oh well that explains a lot...not only does he suffer from the 'short man syndrome', hence all the hissy fits...but may explain some other rather odd things about him....
howard suffered the 'short man syndrome', and turnbull probably does....hence all the screaming...actually there are quite a few short men in parliament now...except garrett...who is a big tool...

oh and rederrob...calls me a liar...
that statement says more about you and your attitude...
as usual if posters cannot debate the subject...they attack the other posters personally...

I note you are still on about the first email, disregard all the others, and the latest news about helping his mate out again...
hehehehe