Has Kevin Rudd misled parliament?

[GumbyLearner]

Anyway back to the topic.

When will Turntable table the documented "bull" in Parliament?

 

[Julia]

That's a hilarious statement Julia.

Coming from someone who harps on about correct expression and grammar use. Yet you ignore the unrelenting right wing bias prose of a poster without a political clue.

Good call Timmy

I'd be the last to suggest Mr Burns is anything but firmly right wing. My comment was to question the description of One Nation as the 'loony left'.
They're probably about on a par with Mr B in their right bias.

Don't tell me you think they're a left organisation?

And perhaps Mr Burns - who's entitled to his views - provides somewhat of a balance to Rederob.

 

[Timmy]

Calling One Nation loony left and Mr.B to the right of them was my attempt at a humourous dig at Mr.B - no more. No offence or insightful political comment intended.

 

[Julia]

Calling One Nation loony left and Mr.B to the right of them was my attempt at a humourous dig at Mr.B - no more. No offence or insightful political comment intended.

And my response was in a similar vein, Timmy, as I expect you know.

Sorry you took it seriously, Gumby Learner.

 

[kincella]

a poster on another forum raised an interesting idea....what if Grech did it himself...to give himself more authority...well perceived authority when dealing with others...as if he was doing the pm a favour....????
one could call it all a balls up....

 

[Gamblor]

a poster on another forum raised an interesting idea....what if Grech did it himself...to give himself more authority...well perceived authority when dealing with others...as if he was doing the pm a favour....????
one could call it all a balls up....

This is a resonable theory - unlike so many others that have been put forth in this thread. Considering the fake email apparently originated from his own computer, it seems the most likely theory at this stage.

Time will tell.

 

[Julia]

This is a resonable theory - unlike so many others that have been put forth in this thread. Considering the fake email apparently originated from his own computer, it seems the most likely theory at this stage.

Time will tell.

Did it originate from Mr Grech's computer? I thought it was established just that it originated from Treasury (no specific computer) and was sent to Mr Grech's home PC?

Perhaps there has been a further development since I read that?

 

[Beej]

Did it originate from Mr Grech's computer? I thought it was established just that it originated from Treasury (no specific computer) and was sent to Mr Grech's home PC?

Perhaps there has been a further development since I read that?

Nope you are correct. It originated from a computer inside Treasury (we don't know whose yet!) and was sent with forged "from" info etc to Grech's home email account.

Cheers,

Beej

 

[Calliope]

Apparently Mr Turnbull is a suspect in the egging of Godwin Grech's house. It is believed the AFP are looking for people with egg on their face, after getting an email from the PM's office.

 

[rederob]

Turnbull has failed to land any blows in recent days, and his pursuit of Swan is now plain tiresome.
Turnbull has no evidence that Swan did anything improper and is now staking his tattered reputation on ground that has been tilled many times without success. Indeed, it emerges that Swan's office has dealt diligently with several other dealerships. That Grant is known to Swan and Rudd does not deny him a right to representation. Moreover, it is well known that public servants keen to get ahead will occasionally name drop, so if Treasury officials have mentioned Grant's name in other dealings it would come as no surprise to anyone. And, unless Turnbull can prove conclusively that Swan gave specific directions to Treasury officers to more vigorously pursue assistance for Grant it can be implied that Treasury's actions were of their own making.
The bad news for Turnbull is that the media, keen for a fresh kill, are circling Turnbull like vultures.
It is unlikely that Turnbull will get away with not answering in detail his past dealings with Grech, and his more recent dealings leading up to utegate.
For most journalists the penny has already dropped.
Grech, who now seems as lost as his missing emails, has had links to senior Liberals for at least 8 years: Turnbull has had discussions with him. It is implausible to think that Grech has not had direct dealings with Turnbull in relation to utegate given Grech's role in OzCar, the line of questioning assumed by Turnbull in Parliament from June 4, and ultimately the fake email.
I have listened to about a dozen different interviews with Turnbull in recent days - on radio and TV - and he is refusing point blank to answer certain questions. These are questions that in America would allow him 5th amendment immunity. Here, it simply gives sends vultures the sniff of a corpse walking.

 

[GumbyLearner]

Turnbull has failed to land any blows in recent days, and his pursuit of Swan is now plain tiresome.
Turnbull has no evidence that Swan did anything improper and is now staking his tattered reputation on ground that has been tilled many times without success. Indeed, it emerges that Swan's office has dealt diligently with several other dealerships. That Grant is known to Swan and Rudd does not deny him a right to representation. Moreover, it is well known that public servants keen to get ahead will occasionally name drop, so if Treasury officials have mentioned Grant's name in other dealings it would come as no surprise to anyone. And, unless Turnbull can prove conclusively that Swan gave specific directions to Treasury officers to more vigorously pursue assistance for Grant it can be implied that Treasury's actions were of their own making.
The bad news for Turnbull is that the media, keen for a fresh kill, are circling Turnbull like vultures.
It is unlikely that Turnbull will get away with not answering in detail his past dealings with Grech, and his more recent dealings leading up to utegate.
For most journalists the penny has already dropped.
Grech, who now seems as lost as his missing emails, has had links to senior Liberals for at least 8 years: Turnbull has had discussions with him. It is implausible to think that Grech has not had direct dealings with Turnbull in relation to utegate given Grech's role in OzCar, the line of questioning assumed by Turnbull in Parliament from June 4, and ultimately the fake email.
I have listened to about a dozen different interviews with Turnbull in recent days - on radio and TV - and he is refusing point blank to answer certain questions. These are questions that in America would allow him 5th amendment immunity. Here, it simply gives sends vultures the sniff of a corpse walking.

I bet he wishes his vulture fund Wentworth campaign contribution buddies from the US could help him now. LOL

 

[Julia]

This is a resonable theory - unlike so many others that have been put forth in this thread. Considering the fake email apparently originated from his own computer, it seems the most likely theory at this stage.

Time will tell.

Nope you are correct. It originated from a computer inside Treasury (we don't know whose yet!) and was sent with forged "from" info etc to Grech's home email account.

Cheers,

Beej

Thanks, Beej. As I thought.

Plus this as further confirmation:

Melbourne’s Herald-Sun has just spoken to Mr Lindwall who denies any knowledge of the email.

As ABC Online revealed at noon, the AFP searched the Canberra home of Treasury official Godwin Grech this morning and found the email suggesting the Prime Minister’s office had lobbied on behalf of Mr Rudd’s friend, Ipswich car dealer John Grant.

It is not clear whether Mr Grech is the author of the email, or whether he was sent it by someone else inside Treasury, or whether it originated from another source.

However The Punch understands that the AFP is now keen to speak to an advisor inside Mr Turnbull’s office, who worked formerly at Treasury, and has links to Mr Grech.

I guess we await the next episode of this saga.

 

[drsmith]

I guess we await the next episode of this saga.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2606434.htm

Time for the Fremantle Dockers last rites me thinks.

Malcolm Turnbull's prospects of surviving this as opposition leader are less than that of the Fremantle Dockers winning the 2009 AFL premiership.

 

[Julia]

If he were to go, then who would replace him? There really isn't a suitable candidate, is there?

 

[Duckman#72]

Turnbull obviously never studied modern history. Or at least he never took any lessons out of the US involvement in the Vietnam War.

You don't fight the enemy on his terrain, on his terms, trying to match it with your opponents strengths. You need to target his weaknesses, divide and isolate, play only when you know you will win.

C'mon Mal - what the $%#$ is going on? What are you doing engaging in a "battle to the death" when the situation involves audit trails, email correspondence, red tape, layers of officialdom, policy breaches and phone messages. Chairman Rudd is the "Rambo" of the Public Service!!

What were you thinking!!! "Rudbo" knows all the tricks in the book - no easy kill here. Dust yourself down, stitch up the flesh wounds and then get back to your strategy.

Mal, while you are playing "Watch me Blow Up on the National Stage", your ex nemisis was showing you how to do it in interview after interview.

A classic line - (paraphrased)

Interviewer: "Mr Costello will you admit that the labor strategy is in fact stimulating the economy?"

Mr Costello: "Well, you can employ people to go out and paint rocks white. That will also stimulate the economy. Its not hard to stimulate the economy - what is hard to do, and Labor hasn't done it, is get value for money."

And this gem"

Mr Costello: "You can spend $1M to get yourself a $400K school gym, but isn't it more effective to just spend $400k to get a $400k gym and then spend the remaining $600k somewhere else?".

Duckman

 

[rederob]

Update regarding investigation
Monday, 22 June 2009

Having regard to the public interest in this matter, the AFP can confirm in relation to the investigation of matters referred to it by the Attorney-General’s Department on Saturday 20 June 2009, that a preliminary forensic investigation of computers located at a premises in Calwell and at the offices of the Department of Treasury has been undertaken.

Preliminary results of those forensic examinations indicate that the e-mail referred to at the centre of this investigation has been created by a person or persons other than the purported author of the e-mail.

A 42-year-old Calwell man has been interviewed by the AFP in relation to this matter and it will be alleged that the interview is consistent with preliminary forensic advice.

As the investigation is continuing the AFP does not intend to make any further comment at this stage.

Media enquiries:
AFP Media (Canberra): (02) 6275 7100

It would be incorrect to assume the email originated in Treasury. We know that a fake email was discovered, that Dr Charlton was not the author, and that Grech is directly implicated in the case.

 

[Duckman#72]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2606434.htm

Time for the Fremantle Dockers last rites me thinks.

Malcolm Turnbull's prospects of surviving this as opposition leader are less than that of the Fremantle Dockers winning the 2009 AFL premiership.

(HE MUST BE IN TROUBLE)

Possibly one of the most outlandish statements I've ever heard on ASF!!!!

Despite Malcolm's predicament - I'd be betting on him surviving LONG before I'd put 1 cent on the basketcases winning the flag!!!

Duckman

 

[Julia]

It would be incorrect to assume the email originated in Treasury. We know that a fake email was discovered, that Dr Charlton was not the author, and that Grech is directly implicated in the case.

Dear Rederob,

It seems to depend on which branch of the media is supplying the information.

P
Posted Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:57am AEST
Updated Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:34pm AEST




The email at the centre of the OzCar affair has been found and is a fake, the ABC understands.

This morning Australian Federal Police officers executed a search warrant at the house of Treasury official Godwin Grech, whose evidence to a Senate inquiry on Friday ignited the OzCar scandal.

The email has now been found at his house.

The email was purported to show the Prime Minister's office making representations to the Treasury on behalf of car dealer John Grant, Kevin Rudd's friend and political donor.

AFP cars are at Mr Grech's house in southern Canberra and IT specialists are investigating the email, which is believed to have been sent from Treasury to his home account.

Police are now interviewing Mr Grech about the email.

Perhaps it's just possible that even you cannot yet be sure about the origin of the fake email.

With kind regards
Julia

 

[drsmith]

(HE MUST BE IN TROUBLE)

Possibly one of the most outlandish statements I've ever heard on ASF!!!!

Despite Malcolm's predicament - I'd be betting on him surviving LONG before I'd put 1 cent on the basketcases winning the flag!!!

Duckman

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=424177&postcount=8

 

[rederob]

Perhaps it's just possible that even you cannot yet be sure about the origin of the fake email.

I tend to rely on the best available information in all that I do.
It may be that Grech has a fake email, and it may have been sent to his home computer from Treasury: I am not aware that these are concrete facts: The AFP remains on the case.
Even if they were concrete facts, we cannot imply the email's originator, and that is a matter of logic.
How the media interpret or misinterpret information is simply a matter for them and who they communicate to. They do not create "facts" but do seem adept at recreating events that might underpin them.

Today the sideshow continues. Unless Hockey and Turnbull can find documentary evidence - that is credible - to support their case against Swan, they have Buckley's. Labor can shut down debate on the matter in Reps as they wish.
On the other hand the media smell blood and these sharks are circling Turnbull with a frenzy of questions he just refuses to answer. They all know he's up to his neck in this and soon enough he'll be roped.