Has Kevin Rudd misled parliament?

[Quincy]

"Rudd crashes John Grant ute"



Cartoon by Nicholson from "The Australian" newspaper: www.nicholsoncartoons.com.au

 

[Calliope]

An email affair perpetuated by Turnbull. So are you saying Turnbull started this unfounded saga to allow Rudd to hide behind it? Did I read that correctly?

No, as usual you got it wrong. He is using it to try to divert the heat from him to Turnbull

Caught out doing what exactly?

Lying to Parliament.

 

[Stan 101]

No, as usual you got it wrong. He is using it to try to divert the heat from him to Turnbull

As my question is clearly wrong, please explain how. I really don't understand. Are you suggesting the Rudd deliberately leaked this false email to Turnbull? How exactly is Rudd diverting heat? Where did you get your information from?

Lying to Parliament.

What was the lie? Where is the proof that either Rudd or Swann lied? Is the proof from the email you assume Rudd is hiding behind?

If that is the case how can one hide behind the very evidence that inciminates?

Again, Caliope, as I am alsways wrong, please set me straight. How much did this car dealer gain from this "help?

You seem to dodge responses better that Turnbull.

cheers,

 

[moXJO]

I reckon sending a fake email to the press benefits labor a lot more in this situation (we all remember the fake leaflets put out by Libs during the last election). Are the liberals really that stupid as to send an email that can be verified as a fake with a little effort? You would hope they would have learnt after their last effort.
Turnbull really needs to ball up atm as Labor is turning it around. Either he knows something and is waiting to deliver the killer blow, or he is up the creek.

 

[Calliope]

I didn't say you were always wrong Stan, but you seem a bit obtuse today. You obviously haven't kept up with what is going on. Since you seem to have a thirst for guidance this may help;

The Sunday Telegraph today;

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25664460-5001030,00.html

KEVIN Rudd may well survive the most serious crisis to hit his government, but Wayne Swan looks to be on shaky ground.

Evidence in a string of emails between Mr Swan, his staff and Treasury officials, and Senate Economics Committee testimony from many involved, point to a special deal for Mr Rudd's car-dealer friend and supporter John Grant.

Unlike the email that supposedly contradicts Mr Rudd's assurances that he sought no favours for Mr Grant, there is no doubt about the the Swan email trail.

Tabled in a Senate Committee hearing, they give astonishing insight into how the machinery of government can be mobilised for a mate.

They reveal how far Mr Swan and his officers were prepared to go to help Mr Grant, when he sought other financing options for his Ipswich car dealership.

Mr Swan told Parliament that he treated Mr Grant like any other car dealer. But the emails clearly say otherwise.

How many other car dealers were important enough to spark a flurry of emails between Mr Swan's office and Godwin Grech, the senior Treasury official in charge of the $2 billion OzCar trust set up to prop up the industry?

The message to Mr Grech was clear: Mr Grant's problems were a priority. He treated them as such.

One email reminded him that copies were going to the Treasurer's home fax. Other emails were copied to no less a luminary than the head of Treasury, Ken Henry.

Why did the Treasurer and head of Treasury need intimate details of the problems of an Ipswich car dealer? Particularly during the global financial crisis, which was swamping the world.

Firstly, Westminster principles demand that ministers resign if they do not tell the truth in Parliament. Mr Swan told Parliament that Mr Grant received the same assistance as anyone else. He also told the Parliament that he was not aware of the outcome of Mr Grant's case.

The email trail and Mr Grech's testimony seem to knock out those defences.

But even if Mr Swan succeeds with a technical argument that he has not misled Parliament, there is a broader question for which he should be held accountable: why was so much government energy expended on a mate of the Prime Minister?

That is Third World-government stuff; it is not the way Australians expect their governments to be run.

Mr Rudd says that neither he nor his office had anything to do with Mr Grant's dealings with Treasury.

Mr Grech thought the Prime Minister's office initiated the contact and said he recalled an email to that effect, though he couldn't be sure.

A search has failed to find such an email and, until it turns up, Mr Rudd is safe.

If it does surface, the Government will move heaven and earth to sacrifice a few foot-soldiers to save the most popular Prime Minister since Bob Hawke.

Wayne Swan, his fellow Queenslander, may have to take one of the first bullets.

 

[kincella]

instead of concentrating on the first email....read all about the other emails that did not disappear....and the mention in these emails of John Grant and how representations were made on his behalf to the Treaurer...ie Swan and Ken Henry the head of Treasury dept...
from the insiders program....I watched to see how they would spin it....and slightly surprised they were not covering it up...except they had Gillard on...and I cannot stand to listen to a word she says...

ps note...I usually state whenever there is an extract....but missed one yesterday....and was accused of whatever.....
regular readers will note...there is almost always the word extract or ........denoting...another source etc...and always a ref/link to view the article itself...so there is no question for the reader ..was it my work or an extract from an article............

here is the extract from the insiders.................
and note *** this came straight from the senate enquiry on friday...its on film....so it is not an interpretation or muddied by the program...


The public servant suddenly thrust into the spotlight was Godwin Grech who runs the OzCar scheme and his evidence had all the appearance of man who knew too much, struggling with the truth.

(Excerpt from Senate Estimates hearing):

ERIC ABETZ, LIBERAL SENATOR (reading from email): "Salutation Treasurer, both Godwin Grech and I have spoken to John Grant this evening."

You refer to John Grant, John Grant, John Grant.

GODWIN GRECH, DEPARTMENT OF TREASURY: When the PMO or the Treasurer's office approach you with something, you give it priority.

ERIC ABETZ (reading from email): "Thanks Godwin, great work. Just so you are aware these emails are also going to the Treasurer's home fax."

GODWIN GRECH: I certainly had the impression that he wasn't your average constituent.

ERIC ABETZ: This relates to whether or not the Treasurer has misled the Parliament.

GODWIN GRECH: It was made clear to me that, you know, it was something that had to be managed and that's what I tried to do.

ERIC ABETZ: Good work. Great work Godwin.

GODWIN GRECH: I'm not going to deny the fact that the case of Mr Grant was...

BARNABY JOYCE, NATIONALS SENATE LEADER: Special.

GODWIN GRANT: Was labour intensive.

BARNABY JOYCE: How do you spell "labour" in that?

ERIC ABETZ (reading from email): "Godwin, we really appreciate this."

Can I ask whether the Prime Minister's office made any representations on behalf of Mr John grant?

DAVID MARTINE, DEPARTMENT OF TREASURY: To the best of our ability and we've searched everything we can find, look for, we have not located any correspondence whatsoever, either emails or physical correspondence.

ERIC ABETZ: The answer is quick - yes or no - and we can move on, Chair.

GODWIN GRECH: I am simply not in a position to say anything further to what Mr Martine has said.

ERIC ABETZ: There is of course the suggestion in today's media that such a document exists. Mr Grech, Mr Grech, do those words sound familiar to you?

What about a Mr Charlton, Andrew Charlton?

GODWIN GRECH: I was very frankly distressed this morning when I woke up and read that article.

I'm a public servant and I'm basically in the situation that no public servant should find him or herself in. And within my relationships with...

CHAIR: Sorry Mr Grech...

GODWIN GRECH: No I'll continue, I want to continue. It was very hard this morning going into work and looking my colleagues in the eye. It all came down on my shoulders.

The initial contact I had with respect to John Grant was from the Prime Minister's office.

ERIC ABETZ: Have you seen a document?

GODWIN GRECH: My recollection may well be totally false, faulty, but my recollection, and that's a big qualification, my recollection is that there was a short email from the PMO to me which very simply alerted me to the case of John Grant. But my, my, I don't have the email. We just can't find it.

ERIC ABETZ: Surely Mr Grech has the capacity to answer this question, whether or not the name Andrew Charlton is, rings a bell.

DAVID MARTINE: Senator...

ERIC ABETZ: No, I don't think your name is Mr Grech, sorry. Will you allow him to answer it?

DAVID MARTINE: He is unsure about any correspondence emails or otherwise from the Prime Minister's office to the Treasury.

GODWIN GRECH: I have to defer to the seniority of Mr Martine on that issue.

ERIC ABETZ (reading from email): "Thanks Godwin, great work."

(End of excerpt)

BARRIE CASSIDY, PRESENTER: Well Kevin Rudd has ordered inquiries by the AFP and
http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2009/s2603951.htm

 

[Stan 101]

I didn't say you were always wrong Stan

No, as usual you got it wrong.

Rereading your above quote, I can see the error of my ways, now. And I thought it was pure semantics?

, but you seem a bit obtuse today.

Possibly. Cos you were nice enough to send me that link, I'll promise to use more smileys to offer 'tone.'

You obviously haven't kept up with what is going on. Since you seem to have a thirst for guidance this may help;

I've been trying. I tend not to read news.com.au and endeavour to find different sources. I do have a thirst for guidance and certainly appreciate yours. Ta.



cheers,

 

[GumbyLearner]

All parlimenarians have mislead parliment.

Fair tug of the tic-tac pj, are you sure?

 

[Sean K]

I'm a bit behind in this argument, but does it all come back to Steve Lewis?

Steve Lewis quoted the email, allegedly from Mr Rudd's adviser Andrew Charlton, as saying: "Hi, Godwin, the PM has asked if the car dealer financing vehicle is available to assist ... John Grant Motors, (which) seems to be having trouble getting finance.

"If you can follow up on this asap that would be very useful."

Mr Turnbull said he had no copy of the email and had been relying Mr Lewis's reports.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25667020-601,00.html

 

[Julia]

I think it would be more prudent not to jump to anyone's defence here. Looks to be some uncertainty as to what's actually gone on.

And there's no need to be abusive towards any other members to voice your opinion.

Your intervention is appreciated, Kennas. Some members can't help being abusive, sarcastic, etc, it seems. Says more about them than those they are abusing.

Y You also assume that Rudd haters are former Howard supporters. My objections to Rudd are not based on any ideology, but simply on his obnoxious character.

This comment goes for me also.

Ping Pong

 

[Julia]

kincella



Julia's suggestion that Grech was under pressure to "shut up" is laughable.
He was required to provide a recollection of events as he understood them, and that could be supported by relevant materials. Parliament takes a dim view of any attempts to nobble - or hobble - public servants that are required to testify at hearings.

I would have thought so too. The footage I watched on The 7.30 Report, however, clearly showed this occurring. It is further confirmed in the transcript provided by Kincella.

It's your automatic and passionate defence of the Labor Party which comes across as laughable. You have concluded complete innocence on the part of Rudd and Swan before the whole affair has been played out.
I'd prefer to reserve judgement at this stage.

Tainting the Federal Police is equally ludicrous. They will do their job and report exactly what they find, whether Rudd likes it or not. This is not like the Haneef case where they relied on a chain of evidence that was poorly based, and adopted inquiry techniques that presumed guilt from the outset.

Nor is this like the Children Overboard affair, where Howard hushed the truth for as long as possible, and buried its findings in report a year later under the innocuous title of "A Certain Maritime Incident".

You seem to have intimate knowledge of all that goes on with the Federal Police, to the level that allows you to be completely certain of their ethics and non-political alignment.
Then you go on to highlight some of their incompetence.

I hope they always conduct their work without fear or favour.
If Howard 'hushed the truth', as you put it, why is it not possible for the current government to do the same?

Pathetic supporters of Howard's decimated Liberal Party eagerly latch onto anything they can, and hurl it at Rudd with vented spleens.

Calliope has appropriately responded to this silly assumption.
Not all of us are philosophically aligned with any particular party.

Yet Rudd, unlike Howard, isn't hiding, procrastinating, or looking for scapegoats. Short of convening a Senate Select Committee, Rudd has unleashed the Audit Office and Federal Police to look for this much talked about evidence that even Turnbull isn't sure is kosher.

Yes, here I completely agree. Rudd so far is doing all he can be expected to do. As a result he is looking much more healthy than his friend and colleague, Mr Swan, who may be in a bit of trouble.

This is one heck of a beat up and Turnbull has been foolish to relentlessly pursue something which he now claims not to have evidence to support. Just like Johnny falling for the weapons of mass destruction line, on evidence concocted for another purpose.

We'll see. You may be right. And if the whole chain of emails were to turn out to be manufactured by Turnbull & Co. then he would deserve to be thrown out. I understand, however, that some of these have already been verified as authentic.

But if parliament has indeed been lied to, then Turnbull is correct to draw this to the nation's attention.

 

[Calliope]

Here's a good laugh from one who is noted for telling porkies.

The Age today;

Queensland Premier Anna Bligh is backing the federal treasurer and prime minister over the affair.

"I've known both Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan for a long time," Ms Bligh said.

"What I know of them is that they are people of integrity.

"I look forward to seeing the results of the auditor-general's inquiry."

© 200

 

[Stan 101]

"Mr Rudd and Treasurer Wayne Swan both deny allegations of giving Mr Grant preferential treatment in trying to help him gain a government assisted loan."

A member here started a post about his issues with a bank, mortgage broker and his stamp duty grant. He has now called on his MP to look at his case. No offense to the poster in question. I agree that is his right and the MP should look into his case but is this preferential treatment?



cheers,

 

[rederob]

GODWIN GRECH: My recollection may well be totally false, faulty, but my recollection, and that's a big qualification, my recollection is that there was a short email from the PMO to me which very simply alerted me to the case of John Grant. But my, my, I don't have the email. We just can't find it.

David Martine saved Grech from a fatal serve, and he should be grateful.
If Grech had received instruction from PMO then he would have responded to the PMO with an email or some official communication. To not have it, but nevertheless taint the PMO is sloppy, bordering on incompetent.
The guttersnipes that respond to Rudd on their dislike, rather than evidence, tell the real story: It's just more of the same beat up.

I would concede that Swan may have to tender a better explanation to Parliament if his involvement is greater than initially implied. That said, he is not the first, and will not be the last MP to more diligently represent a constituent than we might come to expect. Guilty of doing his job well! Is something we should welcome from our pol lies.

 

[Tink]

Nothing will come out of this..

They are both in 'checkmate'

so we will wait to see the outcome..

 

[Julia]

I would concede that Swan may have to tender a better explanation to Parliament if his involvement is greater than initially implied. That said, he is not the first, and will not be the last MP to more diligently represent a constituent than we might come to expect. Guilty of doing his job well! Is something we should welcome from our pol lies.

The issue is not how he did his job.
It is whether he lied to the Parliament.

 

[Julia]

Nothing will come out of this..

They are both in 'checkmate'

so we will wait to see the outcome..

Your first and third statements contradict each other, Tink.

 

[kincella]

Kennas...I dont believe it all hinges on one missing email...the subsequent emails that were sent to and fro swan and henry and grech tell what really happened...and that was the attempt to provide assistance to the car dealer
...who lives in rudd's electorate...not swans
its all on public record...from the senate hearing last Friday....
watch the insiders .... for the film footage....
at the the heart of the question is....did rudd or swan or anyone lie in parliament about the subject....

it appears they did....

 

[Sean K]

Kennas...I dont believe it all hinges on one missing email...the subsequent emails that were sent to and fro swan and henry and grech tell what really happened...and that was the attempt to provide assistance to the car dealer

Some junior analyst at ASIO or DSD is laughing his @rse off at the moment because they have it all. Your next mobile call is recorded somewhere. Every (EVERY) email is stored and can be retrieved at the drop of a hat. Let's see who's team ASIO is on.

 

[Calliope]

The guttersnipes that respond to Rudd on their dislike, rather than evidence, tell the real story: It's just more of the same beat up.

And of course Rudd brown-nosers could never be guttersnipes even if they roll
in the gutter.