National Broadband Network

[Aussiejeff]

At last a poster that gets it....so much misinformed opinion in this thread.

I find it amazing how every time my quota and or line speed goes up i always find
something to do with it....back in the day i used to struggle to use my 3 gigs a
month, now i gobble up 15 gigs.

100mbit means no need for FTA or cable/sat TV...no need for normal phone lines,
everything's video and on demand, watch one HD channel while recording another 2

Gaming in 300+ player servers (FPS) with no lag or ping issues...proper global gaming
on a massive scale...imagine streaming news...pressing the blue button to get the live
feed from the riot.

At what cost?

What if that service ends up costing the equivalent of $200 to connect (modem etc) plus a further $200mth IN TODAYS DOLLAR$? I want to see WHAT THE LIKELY COST OF THIS SERVICE is likely to be before I wave my hat and dance for this.

Crikey mate, you'd be lucky to get 30% connections at that rate? I know I wouldn't be able to afford it! In which case the cost to householders would have to be subsidised by the gummint, possibly forever to encourage a sufficient % of households to connect to the service in order to cover the massive ongoing maintenance and service costs?

I'll say it again.

WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY WIRE UP 98% OF HOMES AT +43$BILLION - BUT ONLY 30% OF HOUSEHOLDS TAKE UP THE OFFER? Would the resulting "business" then be a massive loss making enterprise?

Would the gummint then have to legislate to make it mandatory that all Australians use the service?

Senator Conroy says the gummint will own the company for at least the next 13 years (8 years proposed build + 5 years after that)!

What if (due to unforeseen major advances in other broadband technologies that may prove cheaper in the timeframe - 4G etc) THIS TURNS OUT TO BE A TOTALLY UNECONOMICAL WHITE ELEPHANT? HOW WILL THE GUMMINT THEN SELL THEIR UNDESIRABLE SHARES?

Well, sure to be sure I might be pushing up daisies by then, but these are also big concerns for future generations to worry about.

The Snowy scheme, railways, roads etc were always going to be a pretty good bet to be of GREAT benefit to most of Australias population.

This scheme is already looking to be based on little more than a pipe dream.

No certainty of funding.
No certainty of takeup.
No certainty of buyback.
No certainty of lack of competition from alternative technology.

Can we save the champagne until some certainty and actual budget estimates come to fruition?

 

[Stan 101]

No it's a good idea but they'll never be able to achieve it, not enough expertise.

And just where does your expertise in this field lie, Burnsie? Care to enlighten us all so you can validate your "expert" opinion.

Just saw Nick Minchin he seems just as bad, thought they were talking about phone lines ??? then backed off as fast as he could. [\QUOTE]

Last time I looked, fiber optics are used for telephony. What's your point? That's the whole debate here. Telephony. I would expect a minister to discuss the situation at hand.

Telstra with Govt backing could do it but the Govt couldn't organize a chook raffle on their own so I'm not at all optimistic.

How about showing us what you are made of Burnsie. Stick you hand up for the next local election and show us how a real person gets things done.

Having a powerful Telstra monopoly is what got this country in a mess with regard to communications. They own all the hardware and charge outrageous pricing for basic services. The current government would would like to get a duopoly moving to make the private sector competitive and force Telstra to stop dragging the chain. The same Telstra that holds other businesses to ransom with their whole leases of lines and infastructure.


We have been left with a renigade company who can't be reeled in, and are hell bent on pursuing a business strategy more focused on beating down opposition than improving services to clients.

Selling off Telstra was a monumental blunder by Howard and business in this country has suffered for it ever since. EG: Three years ago I moved office to the brand new technology park in Murrarie. This is home to large players like LG, Fisher and Pykle (sp?) and the Courier Mail. This brand new industrial estate had and still has no ability 3 years on, to recieve a broadband connection of any speed. We had to install, at great expense a dedicated pipe for any sort of internet connection.
This was a BRAND new estate 12km from the CBD and a stones throw from the Gateway.

The government buying back Telstra would be a monumental blunder on a scale larger than the sell off. At least with the sell off they didn't have hindsight to know how Telstra would go rogue against it's competitors and client base.

Yes and I'm sorry you asked too as it seems your motive was just to critisize, very unproductive of you, not constructive at all.

No, I asked the question to get some specifics. I thought that maybe on this occasion you would actually have some substance, facts or understanding of the subject to make an informed decision and open up debate on facts of the technology and roll out potential. Clearly you do not. It's just a rant.

Sad, really.


Cheers,

 

[Trembling Hand]

Can this thing actual make money? or pay of itself? By the time this thing is rolled out there will be some 8 million households (from a google search) and at a guess another 2 million business (guess).

What will the take up rate need to be for this to pay for its self? My very rough back of the envelope calculations tells me its a Big gamble. And bureaucrats have a very poor record picking winners. Its a very big gamble considering that many homes are actually not going to need a wired phone.

I reckon this is a dud. As much as I would like everyone in Oz to instantaneously have a 100 meg cable at their door now I suspect by the time this gets to your door 300 meg wireless to your mobile, that you will be taking with you everywhere, will be the standard.

 

[MrBurns]

No, I asked the question to get some specifics. I thought that maybe on this occasion you would actually have some substance, facts or understanding of the subject to make an informed decision and open up debate on facts of the technology and roll out potential. Clearly you do not. It's just a rant.
Sad, really.
Cheers,

I dont know where to start to address your latest post of nonsensical nasty rubbish, so I won't.

Your posts are worthless drivel, if you're running such a vibrant company what are you doing on forums during business hours ROFL......

 

[Prospector]

I reckon this is a dud. As much as I would like everyone in Oz to instantaneously have a 100 meg cable at their door now I suspect by the time this gets to your door 300 meg wireless to your mobile, that you will be taking with you everywhere, will be the standard.

On Page 1 you were a great believer. What happened?

 

[MrBurns]

I reckon this is a dud. .

To cut to the chase, you're right, if Telstra couldnt put this together the Keystone Cops in Canberra have no hope . they will spend a $billion$ on the feasibility drop the project and hand the bill to us..............as usual.

 

[Trembling Hand]

On Page 1 you were a great believer. What happened?

No I am on letting the commercials role out whatever they can get investors to put money up for. If it needs a couple of billion from the gov to get it going well I think on balance that's a good use/wise use of tax $'s. But 40 something billion of tax dollars that will take forever and very likely to be steamrolled by coming technologies. Well I am with you. Spend it on something more important.

To cut to the chase, you're right, if Telstra couldnt put this together the Keystone Cops in Canberra have no hope . they will spend a $billion$ on the feasibility drop the project and hand the bill to us..............as usual.

Lets look at what we do know. The gov is saying all the real proposal they got didn't work. From people who actually costed it and have enough expertise in the industry and were going to get part gov money. So there answer to that was what?? Throw a **** more at it and make it the biggest ever project on what basis. I want to see why. Don't believe all the people cheering this. All the anti telstra companies and that's most the nation will cheer this cause there is something very big for them to gain, billions!!

This is not the snowy or rail roads. When the snowy was built we weren't about to get any new tech in a very long time and same with rail that was it for a very long time. This will be different.

 

[Prospector]

No I am on letting the commercials role out whatever they can get investors to put money up for. If it needs a couple of billion from the gov to get it going well I think on balance that's a good use/wise use of tax $'s. But 40 something billion of tax dollars that will take forever and very likely to be steamrolled by coming technologies. Well I am with you.Spend it on something more important. .

Cool! : And that it wont be spent (by the Taxpayer/Govt) on something else we need more.

 

[Beej]

So much negativity! Amazing. People have been asking for infrastructure - this is 21st century infrastructure.

Nick Minchum has NO idea - going on about "telephone companies". That's not what this is about - he has absolutely no clue. Most people commenting on this do not seem to understand the difference between a telecommunications network and a data communications one. This new network will be a pure, high bandwidth, optical fibre based data communications network.

To a large extent it will be future proofed, as one of the great things about fibre optics is that you can pick and choose how much bandwidth you gain from each fibre based on the cost/technology used in the media layer equipment that you connect it to. A single fibre can be used cheaply to transmit at speeds of 100Mbs, or for more $$$ several 10Gbps channels can be utilised (via technology like division wave multiplexing WDM etc). Over time the higher bandwidth technologies get cheaper, allowing the networks to evolve and provide more and more bandwidth at a similar cost point over time. Wireless based solutions that some suggest as the "future" can never match this future scalability.

As for the concerns that the government lacks the expertise etc - well Conroy is a muppet - no doubt. If Rudd is smart he will re-shuffle that portfolio quit smart and put someone more capable of running the big picture in there. Regardless, these types of projects are not really done by the government, their departments etc - they will of course invite tenders for the design, supply of equipment, build out etc etc which will all be handled by appropriate private sector expert organisations. As long as the over-all plan remains sensible and the scope doesn't keep changing it will be built successfully IMO. There are risks, it may be delayed etc etc, but then something this big/visionary does not come without risk, but the outcome will be well worth it.

Personally, I also see great opportunities being created by this scheme.

Cheers,

Beej

 

[moXJO]

At what cost?

What if that service ends up costing the equivalent of $200 to connect (modem etc) plus a further $200mth IN TODAYS DOLLAR$? I want to see WHAT THE LIKELY COST OF THIS SERVICE is likely to be before I wave my hat and dance for this.

I agree with this. What will be the cost of such a service? And by the time it does get rolled out, will there be a more cost effective alternative. Considering how big Australia is how much will the cost of building this blow out?

I suppose we should look to other countries that have this (or something similar) already and see what benefits it brings.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Personally, I also see great opportunities being created by this scheme.

Cheers,

Beej

Yes $50 billion worth of opportunity. That will make anyone in the industry see the benefits

 

[shiftyphil]

At what cost?

What if that service ends up costing the equivalent of $200 to connect (modem etc) plus a further $200mth IN TODAYS DOLLAR$? I want to see WHAT THE LIKELY COST OF THIS SERVICE is likely to be before I wave my hat and dance for this.

For a rough guide, look at what FTTH costs right now for those who can get it.
The government plans use the same technology, so they could hit the same price targets.
In current deployments, the developer paid for the fibre to be laid (and rolled it into the land costs)...in the new NBN, the government pays. End user costs should therefore be comparable.

Example:
Opticomm FTTH via Internode - (Minimum $50 per month, $99 setup cost)
(Sorry, can't post links).

 

[moXJO]

Was this plan tied in with the backhoe tax deduction? Was it in preparation of digging a lot of trenches

 

[MrBurns]

Name one project of this magnitude completed successfuly by any Fed Govt - EVER

It's just politics , a good scheme for Rudd because he wont have to deliver on it..........as usual AND can take the credit in advance.

 

[S73417H]

I think some people are failing to see the bigger picture on this one. A lot of people may not NEED faster internet right now, but in 5 to 10 years time the rest of the world is not going to slow down and wait for Australia to catch up. It would be a terrible disadvantage to Australia if our broadband infrastructure stagnates for another several years. I liken this to electricity. I bet many people back in the day believed that they did not NEED electricity.

There are many benefits to be had by providing faster broadband services. I suspect the media sector will especially see huge business opportunities as this technology will make it possible to deliver 100% on-demand media - for example. But of course, the benefit to all businesses will be huge.

The question should not be why do we need it now but rather what will happen if we do not have this in the future? This must happen if Australia wants to maintain a successful economy for the future.

Is this a waste of money? Long-term, certainly not. But yes, the figures are staggering and admittedly scary.

 

[Beej]

Name one project of this magnitude completed successfuly by any Fed Govt - EVER

It's just politics , a good scheme for Rudd because he wont have to deliver on it..........as usual AND can take the credit in advance.

Heard of the Snowy Mountains Scheme?? People like you probably harped on about what a waste of money that was, how it would never work etc etc back in the late 40s....

Also what about the creation of the original national telephone system? That was all done by the commonwealth government.

At least they are trying to do something. Your heroes sat there for 11 years and did SFA! M inchum - who was Communications Minister, still thinks that it's all only about a telephone company

Beej

 

[MrBurns]

Heard of the Snowy Mountains Scheme?? People like you probably harped on about what a waste of money that was, how it would never work etc etc back in the late 40s....

Also what about the creation of the original national telephone system? That was all done by the commonwealth government.

At least they are trying to do something. Your heroes sat there for 11 years and did SFA!

Beej

I didnt mean projects that were undertaken to provide basic infrastructure, I meant something of this ilk. this is desirable but not life and death.

It's complicated and takes an organization of talent and expertise everything that Rudd and his lackeys aren't

Snowy mountain scheme was easy compared to this and Labor politicians weren't smarmy wimps like they are now.

People like me??????????? what about people like you ! Go spend spend spend, run to the letter box, get a handout, go for it it wont fall back on you will it, and this scheme .........what a pity Rudd's involved, watch it fall over but HEY what the hell, he gets short term popularity doesn't he, thats what this is all about.

 

[Aussiejeff]

For a rough guide, look at what FTTH costs right now for those who can get it.
The government plans use the same technology, so they could hit the same price targets.
In current deployments, the developer paid for the fibre to be laid (and rolled it into the land costs)...in the new NBN, the government pays. End user costs should therefore be comparable.

Example:
Opticomm FTTH via Internode - (Minimum $50 per month, $99 setup cost)
(Sorry, can't post links).

The gummint plan is to roll out first into the tiny island state of Tasmania, where connection distances are comparatively miniscule. Then they can say "See? It only cost the ave Tassie Devil $xx". Maybe even affordable for some (but the West Coast of Tassie might test them...).

Can you tell me what FTTH will cost to roll out across the VAST expanses of WA?

Will WA country town folk get the service at the same cost as inner Hobartians?

Detail, detail....

 

[prawn_86]

Normally im the last to defend any politician but I think some people here will dislike every gov decison, no matter what it is.

I think at least this decison is nation building and has actaul value. The least they can do is try and figure out if it will work and if not at least they tried (obviously it wont be as efficient as private industry, but thats something you have to put up with).

With some members here its damned if they do, damned if they dont...

 

[S73417H]

The gummint plan is to roll out first into the tiny island state of Tasmania, where connection distances are comparatively miniscule. Then they can say "See? It only cost the ave Tassie Devil $xx". Maybe even affordable for some (but the West Coast of Tassie might test them...).

Can you tell me what FTTH will cost to roll out across the VAST expanses of WA?

Will WA country town folk get the service at the same cost as inner Hobartians?

Detail, detail....

Unlikely to be FTTH or even FTTN. However, the plan does make up for this with provisions for Satellite broadband technology improvements. OK, it might have relatively high latency, but it will still be very fast. I'm sure everyone would love a nice high-speed cable to their house, but realistically this just isn't an option.