Where can I buy gold and silver?

[rhyslivs]

I had a search through some other threads but nothing was really clear cut.

I am interested in buying gold and silver, but predominately silver. Not necessarily physical gold and silver but more an ownership of some gold or silver somewhere that I can trade. The other thread mentioned futures contracts. Maybe this is what I am after.

Basically I want to buy and sell gold or silver but I dont want the stuff to rock up on my doorstep.

Lend me your knowledge kind gentlemen and women.

Thanks,

Rhys

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Were Can I Buy Gold & Silver?

Type 'GOLD' into your brokers platform as the stock code. Not sure what the code for silver is...

 

[rhyslivs]

Re: Were Can I Buy Gold & Silver?

Thanks, been going through the PDS, it seems pretty legit.

It also mentions silver in the PDS but it doesnt come up on my brokers site.

the is taken from the PDS:

ETFS Physical Gold * GOLD
ETFS Physical Silver ETPMAG
ETFS Physical Platinum ETPMPT
ETFS Physical Palladium ETPMPD
ETFS Physical PM Basket ETPMPM

sticking ETPMAG on my platform says it doesnt exist.. not quite sure what is going on there.

 

[Peter2047]

Re: Were Can I Buy Gold & Silver?

I read somewhere about the risk of holding precious metal ETF.
For example, GLD of SPDR Gold Shares ETF, where HSBC is the custodian of the gold bullion, but there is no sure way to ensure that the bank will hold the physical gold all the time. The bank may choose to lease out the gold bullion.

Thus, precious metal ETF is not 100% the same as physical precious metal.

 

[michael_selway]

Re: Were Can I Buy Gold & Silver?

I read somewhere about the risk of holding precious metal ETF.
For example, GLD of SPDR Gold Shares ETF, where HSBC is the custodian of the gold bullion, but there is no sure way to ensure that the bank will hold the physical gold all the time. The bank may choose to lease out the gold bullion.

Thus, precious metal ETF is not 100% the same as physical precious metal.

Hey thanks, interesting stuff

ETFS Physical Gold GOLD
ETFS Physical Silver ETPMAG
ETFS Physical Platinum ETPMPT
ETFS Physical Palladium ETPMPD
ETFS Physical PM Basket ETPMPM

thx

MS

 

[Jikx]

Re: Were Can I Buy Gold & Silver?

Thus, precious metal ETF is not 100% the same as physical precious metal.

I know when I read the disclosure of Gold (Asx:GOLD), that they do no lease out their gold. ETF is not the same you're correct, because there's still some sovereign risk, and fraud risk. On the other hand, physical gold has theft risk and liquidity risks.

I hold GOLD btw.

 

[rhen]

I have done no further research on this as yet so I offer this link for the careful investors' consideration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvBemJyYhsg

 

[Ageo]

Re: Were Can I Buy Gold & Silver?

On the other hand, physical gold has theft risk and liquidity risks.

I love reading posts like these, ok Jikx please explain to me how physical gold has liquidity risks??????

The reason i ask is because gold is actually 1 of the most liquid physical items there is. I know this from experience.

 

[beamstas]

Re: Were Can I Buy Gold & Silver?

I love reading posts like these, ok Jikx please explain to me how physical gold has liquidity risks??????

The reason i ask is because gold is actually 1 of the most liquid physical items there is. I know this from experience.

In my experience, gold is quite solid, infact if you drop it none will splash. It is like the opposite of a liquid

Seriously though, (i've never dealt with real gold -- only gold cfd's), you can't just walk down the street and sell a bar of gold to someone. You'd have to arrange to sell it, arrange proper transport etc. I'm not sure how much or how little of a hassle this would be, but i'd never buy real gold for the risk of theft! (I don't have a bankvault with red lasers pointing in every direction)

Brad

 

[rhen]

Re: Were Can I Buy Gold & Silver?

I love reading posts like these, ok Jikx please explain to me how physical gold has liquidity risks??????

The reason i ask is because gold is actually 1 of the most liquid physical items there is. I know this from experience.

I would be very interested in reading about some of this experience.

 

[numbercruncher]

GOLD gold is physically held at the London Vaults of HSBC Bank USA. Do we trust these turkeys ?

ZAUWBA is a Perth mint gold product (call warrants) - ZAUWBA is is issued by Gold Corporation (a subsidiary of the Western Australia State Government)

 

[Jikx]

Re: Were Can I Buy Gold & Silver?

ok Jikx please explain to me how physical gold has liquidity risks??????

I'll explain my logic of liquidity risk. I believe what you're talking about is the event of extreme circumstance. What I'm talking about is day to day life. Say you're in dire straights (accident, massive bills due immediately, whatever), how much time does it take to convert Gold to cash, vs Shares (assuming market is open), Cash (bank is always open)?

It can be difficult to exchange for cash, storage requirements, and high transaction costs. All this impinges on liquidity.

As Beamstas stated, in normal times you can't just go to the shop and pay with gold. You have to remember, not everyone buys gold for apocalyptic scenarios.

 

[sinner]

Re: Were Can I Buy Gold & Silver?

It can be difficult to exchange for cash, storage requirements, and high transaction costs. All this impinges on liquidity.

If I want to sell my shares, comsec will take 3 days to deposit the cash in my account, then I have to go to the bank and get it out.

If I want to sell my gold I can walk into Aus Bullion this very second and hand them all my gold and they will give me spot subtracted by some recency fees. Ideally if I want full spot price I will have to wait 3 days for assaying.

I can walk into any pawn broker and get cash on loan for the gold also.

 

[White_Knight]

You can also flog off your gold coins at a premium to spot price on ebay...

 

[Ageo]

Im glad there is a lot of interest in this as i would gladly shed some light on it.

My main business is buying and selling scrap gold, i roughly buy around 10kgs minimum each month but these last few weeks has been hectic.

Now if a person rang me this morning and said i have $100,000 in gold (jewellery, bars, broken etc...) and she was within driving distance i would go there test everything and pay her on the spot. If for any reason i cannot make it i would lock in the price of gold on that day and make a time to catch up (which means she would be hedged incase of a downturn).

Now in terms of theft well if your already holding onto the gold then there is no "added" risk. Of course most of my business is from referrals so people trust me (trust is a big thing in this game).

Logistics is no problem as i travel to people and i dont charge people to test their stock.

I hope this has helped with some of your questions and as i said before gold is 1 of the most liquid items out there.

P.S I had a customer who got sacked from work and was going to forclose on his house. Luckily they had around 2kgs of old broken gold laying around (they were indian so they collect it for many many yrs) anywayz i got a phone call and that afternoon i took their gold off them and handed them around 60k in cash.

Now if thats not liquid then i have no idea what is.

P.SS sinner no refiner buys scrap on the spot unless they are high volume traders.

 

[Jikx]

Re: Were Can I Buy Gold & Silver?

If I want to sell my shares, comsec will take 3 days to deposit the cash in my account, then I have to go to the bank and get it out.

If I want to sell my gold I can walk into Aus Bullion this very second and hand them all my gold and they will give me spot subtracted by some recency fees. Ideally if I want full spot price I will have to wait 3 days for assaying.

I can walk into any pawn broker and get cash on loan for the gold also.

Let's be sensible here, you haven't discounted the fact that Gold does liquidity risk. For example, if I had one thousand ounces of Gold, can it still be sold at the same rate as if I had a million dollars worth of blue chip shares? Perhaps it can, but which is easier? Which has turnover?

Liquidity risk also implies that you will lose value if you attempt to sell it too quickly. Also, you also have to physically go and exchange the Gold. As I mentioned earlier, if you were in an accident, you cannot exchange it. Pawn shop for Gold is a guaranteed way of losing much of it's value.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying Shares are not without liquidity risk, but I believe shares and definitely cash, is a lot lower. Overall, my argument is that for the average investor (not apocalytic scenario), an EFT metals stock is of much greater worth than the same amount buried in their backyard.

Let's move from the micro to the macro. How many houses are sold/bought in Australia everyday? How much Gold is bought and sold? How many shares are traded? How much cash is exchanged?

Cash > Shares > Gold > Property

If this is not the defining aspect of liquidity, I don't know what is.

 

[sinner]

Re: Were Can I Buy Gold & Silver?

Let's be sensible here, you haven't discounted the fact that Gold does liquidity risk. For example, if I had one thousand ounces of Gold, can it still be sold at the same rate as if I had a million dollars worth of blue chip shares? Perhaps it can, but which is easier? Which has turnover?

Liquidity risk also implies that you will lose value if you attempt to sell it too quickly. Also, you also have to physically go and exchange the Gold. As I mentioned earlier, if you were in an accident, you cannot exchange it. Pawn shop for Gold is a guaranteed way of losing much of it's value.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying Shares are not without liquidity risk, but I believe shares and definitely cash, is a lot lower. Overall, my argument is that for the average investor (not apocalytic scenario), an EFT metals stock is of much greater worth than the same amount buried in their backyard.

Let's move from the micro to the macro. How many houses are sold/bought in Australia everyday? How much Gold is bought and sold? How many shares are traded? How much cash is exchanged?

Cash > Shares > Gold > Property

If this is not the defining aspect of liquidity, I don't know what is.

You are just talking, you have no experience in buying or selling gold.

1000 ounces is only 2.5 400oz LBMA bars the standard unit size for the London Bullion Market (hence the name) and minted as such, I doubt you would have trouble "cashing" these in at any reputable bullion dealer of which there are plenty.

 

[kransky]

P.S I had a customer who got sacked from work and was going to forclose on his house. Luckily they had around 2kgs of old broken gold laying around (they were indian so they collect it for many many yrs) anywayz i got a phone call and that afternoon i took their gold off them and handed them around 60k in cash.

2kg = 2000 grams = 64 ounces
AUD $1370/ounce = $87k

are these people just dumb that they accept such low price/ounce?

 

[Jikx]

Re: Were Can I Buy Gold & Silver?

You are just talking, you have no experience in buying or selling gold.
...
I doubt you would have trouble "cashing" these in at any reputable bullion dealer of which there are plenty.

Wow talk about not addressing any of the points I'm raising. I'll reliterate: I'm talking about the liquidity, how easy it is to buy and sell, the level of transactions occur at a economy wide level. Surely you cannot argue that the turnover of Gold is greater than that of Cash or Shares? That is what liquidity is, and that's why I stated it is of greater liquidity risk.

If you accept Gold is traded less than Cash or Shares, then you must accept that Gold is of a higher liquidity risk. And please, no more talk about how easy it is for you to exchange your gold for $X - that doesn't show me the market depth and measure of liquidity.

What you can show me is how much Gold is turned over daily, and if it is greater than cash/shares, then I will accept it has less liquidy risk. I'm not that stubborn - I simply don't accept anecdotes.

 

[Ageo]

2kg = 2000 grams = 64 ounces
AUD $1370/ounce = $87k

are these people just dumb that they accept such low price/ounce?

Kransky is you read my post you would have noticed i mentioned scrap.

For those that dont know scrap is all forms of karat gold (9ct, 18ct, 22ct jewellery, bars etc...) its not fine gold (bullion, coins that are pure).

So your not getting fine gold price (plus when i bought it gold was much lower than it is now).