Where can I buy gold and silver?

[Temjin]

I bought 10kgs of silver bullion last week for 35c per gram ($350 per kilo).

Unfortunately i sold it already but if you ask around (especially pawn brokers) you will come across some at very good prices (below market anyway).

I know some pawn brokers do have arbitage opportunities in such things and have seen them myself (at a much lower volume), but seriously, 10kg for only $350 per kg??? wow! Whoever pawn broker sold it to you must have been living under a ROCK! Or have no access to the internet for a quick google search to look at the current spot price before selling the bullions to you. (Or don't even know what google is!)

 

[GumbyLearner]

This seems pretty "out-there" and charging 30% above spot.
I wonder if this would catch-on in other parts of the world.

German firm plans 'Gold-to-Go' ATMs to sell tiny, pricey gold bars

A German asset management company plans to set up 500 "Gold-to-Go" ATMs in Germany, Switzerland and Austria this year.

http://www.financialpost.com/personal-finance/story.html?id=1610606

 

[Uncle Festivus]

Buy yourself 10k of HEG shares then go here to buy direct online -

http://www.hillendgold.com.au/index...ategory_id=6&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=194

Sweet spot with $AU where it is now around $1200?

 

[Ageo]

I know some pawn brokers do have arbitage opportunities in such things and have seen them myself (at a much lower volume), but seriously, 10kg for only $350 per kg??? wow! Whoever pawn broker sold it to you must have been living under a ROCK! Or have no access to the internet for a quick google search to look at the current spot price before selling the bullions to you. (Or don't even know what google is!)

Temjin, it actually was a customer of his, you see like me we have the margins made before we go into the deal. I.E for a fast transaction i offered him 35c per gram and in turn he perhaps offered his customer whatever below that and if the customer is desperate enough he will sell. The problem with selling at bullion houses in the city etc.. is that hardly any will give you top prices on the spot. Normally they need to assay it (takes time and a cost) and people are impatient.

The guy that advertises to buy gold in Sydney @ piccadilly square offers people around $17 per gram for 18ct and he's flat chat. Basically in a technical term its called buying distressed assets.

 

[Temjin]

Temjin, it actually was a customer of his, you see like me we have the margins made before we go into the deal. I.E for a fast transaction i offered him 35c per gram and in turn he perhaps offered his customer whatever below that and if the customer is desperate enough he will sell. The problem with selling at bullion houses in the city etc.. is that hardly any will give you top prices on the spot. Normally they need to assay it (takes time and a cost) and people are impatient.

The guy that advertises to buy gold in Sydney @ piccadilly square offers people around $17 per gram for 18ct and he's flat chat. Basically in a technical term its called buying distressed assets.

Ahh, my mistake. I thought he got it through a pawn broker! If it was a distressed sell from one of his customer, then that's perfectly understandable.

As for selling to bullion houses, yeah, unless the bullion itself was already assayed by another refiner.

Certainly one good way of accumulating precious metals at way below spot price.

 

[Ageo]

Ahh, my mistake. I thought he got it through a pawn broker! If it was a distressed sell from one of his customer, then that's perfectly understandable.

As for selling to bullion houses, yeah, unless the bullion itself was already assayed by another refiner.

Certainly one good way of accumulating precious metals at way below spot price.

Temjin you will find that alot of bullion houses wont accept cash on the spot deals even with an assay certificate from another refiner as that could have be switched from another batch of bullion.

Anyone that buys stock untested is open for disaster (unless they buy extremely under the spot to hedge themselves).

 

[netfleet]

I spoke to a gold dealer in Sydney just now. He suggested the best thing to do is buy coins (Kangaroo) at $1,295 a pop & stick them in a bank vault (costing around $150/year).

He suggested that althought it's a bit more exe than a certificate, your sell price is likely to be better (as it's negotiable)

Does this make sense for a 12-24mth investment? Thanks!

 

[Ageo]

I spoke to a gold dealer in Sydney just now. He suggested the best thing to do is buy coins (Kangaroo) at $1,295 a pop & stick them in a bank vault (costing around $150/year).

He suggested that althought it's a bit more exe than a certificate, your sell price is likely to be better (as it's negotiable)

Does this make sense for a 12-24mth investment? Thanks!

Hmm which dealer is this if you dont mind revealing as that advice is just plain dumb. If you want kangaroo coins and your happy to buy at even $1280 let me know and ill get you as many as you want.

As for making sense, sorry it doesnt your paying too high a premium

 

[netfleet]

Hmm which dealer is this if you dont mind revealing as that advice is just plain dumb. If you want kangaroo coins and your happy to buy at even $1280 let me know and ill get you as many as you want.

As for making sense, sorry it doesnt your paying too high a premium

Thanks very much for the feedback.

Can I ask is the advice/strategy actually dumb or is it just the premium he's trying to charge? If it's the latter, do you know where you can buy cheaper kangaroo coins and what's the minimum one can pay?

I'll let you know the dealer by PM if you like?

Thanks again

 

[Temjin]

Temjin you will find that alot of bullion houses wont accept cash on the spot deals even with an assay certificate from another refiner as that could have be switched from another batch of bullion.

Anyone that buys stock untested is open for disaster (unless they buy extremely under the spot to hedge themselves).

Hmm..so are you saying if I buy from, let say www.ausbullion.com.au and try to sell it to another dealer like www.ainsliebullion.com.au who accepts other brand bullion, they wouldn't give cash on the spot regardless?

By the way, what is the typical cost of getting the metals assayed? Let say if I managed to locate "heavily under the spot" silver from various objects, and requested the refiner to melt them and assay them, how much would I be looking at?

I know I could easily ask the refiner for this, but I guess I could get a rough answer here while replying to this post. thanks

 

[Ageo]

Thanks very much for the feedback.

Can I ask is the advice/strategy actually dumb or is it just the premium he's trying to charge? If it's the latter, do you know where you can buy cheaper kangaroo coins and what's the minimum one can pay?

I'll let you know the dealer by PM if you like?

Thanks again

I never question anyones strategy (even if they are dumb as i cant predict market direction) but the premium is just way too high. The most you should be paying is no more than $50 above the spot especially now as the volatility has eased and spreads (premiums) are lesser. P.S i actually think coins are all wank as gold is gold and the cheaper you can buy it the better.

Hmm..so are you saying if I buy from, let say www.ausbullion.com.au and try to sell it to another dealer like www.ainsliebullion.com.au who accepts other brand bullion, they wouldn't give cash on the spot regardless?

By the way, what is the typical cost of getting the metals assayed? Let say if I managed to locate "heavily under the spot" silver from various objects, and requested the refiner to melt them and assay them, how much would I be looking at?

I know I could easily ask the refiner for this, but I guess I could get a rough answer here while replying to this post. thanks

Well lets say your a refiner and some guy walks in off the street and hands you some bullion from another bullion company with a certificate, are you prepared to buy it on the spot without testing to ensure its purity? your taking a risk like that? so most refiners send it to get assayed and charge a fee (they need to make money everywhere they go). If they know you or feel comfortable that the bullion is what its suppose to be you might be lucky to get cash on the spot but they most likely will offer you less (again on to hedge themselves if the gold shows up a little less pure).

As for assays and refining fees it all depends, assay sometimes can fetch from $70-$200 and have a 5 day turnaround. Refining goes on per kilo plus they take a retention (loss) out of that, but the problem with most refiners is once they refine the gold and for whatever reason you think their lying you cannot get your original stock back.

I deal with refiners all the time and the things they try and get upto is scary.

hope this helps

 

[refined silver]

I've said this from the beginning but any buyers of ETFs rather than the metals themselves may end up sorely disappointed.

When AIG first went into the hole, an unreported story was that many ETFs plunged in value way below the value of the supposed metal they had as it was felt that since AIG was the "custodian", there was a high chance of a default.

They don't have the metal they claim.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/141227-will-a-silver-bullet-finally-kill-the-metal-manipulators

 

[weatherbill]

Isn't there a tax on the sale of gold coins in AU?

 

[Ageo]

Isn't there a tax on the sale of gold coins in AU?

Depends, if you wish to pay tax then yep your right.

 

[Grandpop]

Perth Mint do certificates Unallocated.. Great for the punter with no closet space.

I recently purchased some unallocated gold via the Perth Mint Certificate Program (just $5K's worth to start). Its a bit of a drama setting up the account, but now I can buy gold whenever I want at a reasonable price. You ask them to quote a price and they will honour that quote for 2 days, in which time you transfer the funds. I'm fairly sure trades are exempt from capital gains tax, somebody else may be able to confirm this.

 

[Temjin]

Well lets say your a refiner and some guy walks in off the street and hands you some bullion from another bullion company with a certificate, are you prepared to buy it on the spot without testing to ensure its purity? your taking a risk like that? so most refiners send it to get assayed and charge a fee (they need to make money everywhere they go). If they know you or feel comfortable that the bullion is what its suppose to be you might be lucky to get cash on the spot but they most likely will offer you less (again on to hedge themselves if the gold shows up a little less pure).

As for assays and refining fees it all depends, assay sometimes can fetch from $70-$200 and have a 5 day turnaround. Refining goes on per kilo plus they take a retention (loss) out of that, but the problem with most refiners is once they refine the gold and for whatever reason you think their lying you cannot get your original stock back.

I deal with refiners all the time and the things they try and get upto is scary.

hope this helps

Oops, should have replied to your post.

So even some of the more reputable bullion dealers (like ausbullion, etc) and their own certificate / brand stamp on the actual bullion, will NOT BE ACCEPTED by any refiners. Or I guess this is only a confidence issue?

I certainly know other bullion dealers would more than happy to buy bullions from other brands (subjected to conditions of course) at the same spread as if they were buying back their own brand.

So I would be very surprised if the refiners are far more paranoid and wouldn't accept ANY of the bullions from those dealers and must demand a costly assay. This is despite these very same dealers would buyback each other bullions without additional cost.

I've said this from the beginning but any buyers of ETFs rather than the metals themselves may end up sorely disappointed.

When AIG first went into the hole, an unreported story was that many ETFs plunged in value way below the value of the supposed metal they had as it was felt that since AIG was the "custodian", there was a high chance of a default.

Yeah, the news was widely reported too because I was one of the affected ones. However, those ETFs (subject to credit risk) did indeed plunged in value to ZERO (because there were no markets for it) but only temporary. AIG was bailed out in the end and their securities was marketable again in full value. Of course, I sold them immediately and only stick with their physical backed ETFs.

 

[Ageo]

Oops, should have replied to your post.

So even some of the more reputable bullion dealers (like ausbullion, etc) and their own certificate / brand stamp on the actual bullion, will NOT BE ACCEPTED by any refiners. Or I guess this is only a confidence issue?

I certainly know other bullion dealers would more than happy to buy bullions from other brands (subjected to conditions of course) at the same spread as if they were buying back their own brand.

So I would be very surprised if the refiners are far more paranoid and wouldn't accept ANY of the bullions from those dealers and must demand a costly assay. This is despite these very same dealers would buyback each other bullions without additional cost.

Temjin doesnt matter where the bar comes from it needs to be tested to ensure its gold.

Ill give you an example, i had a customer who gave me some ABC identical bars, but when i tested them it came in at around 94% which is 6% less than the expected pure 24ct. You see any jeweller with the right equipment can make anything you want and that includes bogus bullion. Hallmarking used to be genuine when determining the karatage but today its useless.

If they purchase bullion off you on the spot without testing it then i would consider yourself lucky.

 

[Smurf1976]

Ignoring the merits or otherwise of such an investment, how do I go about investing in the silver ETF?

http://www.etfsecurities.com/au/document/downloads/ETFS_Product_List_au.pdf

It says that the ASX code for Gold is "GOLD" and that works fine for a quote, chart etc on Etrade.

But the "ETPMAG" code for silver doesn't seem to exist as far as Etrade is concerned, I can't get it to work. It wouldn't work for a quote on the ASX site either.

Have I missed / doing something wrong here?

 

[Lord Dragon]

After listening to Dr Marc Faber and Jim Rogers I'm quite scared by what might be coming.

I'd like to buy some plaine tradable physical silver to protect myself.

But I'm aware that 1oz of 09 koala silver coin by perthmint is sold for 38 AUD, about 20 dollars higher than the Kitco quote. I understand physical metals are priced higher than paper metals. but is it really by this big margin?

Does this mean that at the moment I can only purhcase silver at such high price in Aussie term?

who are your preferred dealers where you guys purhcase precious metals?

You can get 1oz silver koalas/kookaburras/lunars from the mint for about $27.
The $38 you see will be for the packaged coin. The bullion coins just come in a plastic case.
Coins always have a premium but you also get a premium when you sell them. If you want to buy bars you can get a 10oz bar from the perth mint for about $190 depending on the days silver prices.
These are the 2 ways I buy silver as I cant afford kilos in one go like others that can get closer to spot from overseas.

 

[trading_rookie]

Ageo, not sure I agree with your assessment that gold coins are a wank...but 18ct gold penis extenders, that's another story

Saudi pays stiff price for sex toy
August 6, 2009
A Saudi businessman has purchased what is being described by the Canadian seller as the world's most expensive adult novelty item - a solid 18-carat gold penis enlarger worth nearly $US50,000 ($59,240).

My question is, would thorough sterilising and scrubbing down this ‘piece’ before assaying cause a loss in purity ? ;-)