Victorian Fires

[MrBurns]

I support the commisssion as well and the results will be implemented by the CFA.
I really can't agree with you on the warnings though mate.
Just because you didn't see many of them doesn't mean they weren't there.
Just like you can't expect a fire truck in a fire nor can you expect an individual warning.
a lot of it comes down to common sense as well.
You live in a city and the risks are not there for you (as much)
Most people who live with wildfire risk on a day-to-day basis would have known.

Just spoke to a friend who lives in the Dandenongs, he says they are more prepared in the hills but in the Yarra Valley and Kinglake they havent had a big fire since the 30's

He reckons the locals had no hope because they had no advice beforehand about when to get out.

He and friends leave the mountain when it's looking dodgy they dont wait.

There's 200 odd lives gone here and people will expect things to be done differently from now on and not just accept it as unavoidable.

 

[MrBurns]

just out of interest Mr. Burns.

How would you have done things differently in the lead up to Saurday?

I wont question what you write - i'm just interested.

Sam , when the forecast was known on Friday I would have issued a urgent warning through the media to leave areas that would be effected by bushfire, either move to safe areas or leave for the day and just go elsewhere and go in the morning do not wait and do not try to defend property.

That means the Dandenongs and other areas.

I know it's a big ask but if people decide to stay after the warning thats their business but I would have the warning out there as strong and as early as possible.

 

[sam76]

Thanks.

 

[MrBurns]

Whats funny Sam I'd really like to know.

 

[SM Junkie]

Our community spirit is just amazing, so many people doing so much to help the victims of the bush fires. Here we are on the other side of the country and our little town is organising a fundraising BBQ and a local charity has organised a truck to take community donations to VIC. It is so wonderful to see so many people pulling together to help.

 

[sam76]

oh did you read that?

I thought it was unfair that i wrote that so i deleted it.

Look i don't have all the answers and I value the debate

off the top of my head and without consulting any of my books.

But putting so many people on the road at the one time "evacuating" is a very dangerous thing to do especially on the day of a fire.

Where are they all going to go?

How are they going to get there?

How do you tell them all that it's now to late to evacuate as there is a fire in the area? people will be on the roads with fire in the area.

You open yourself up to all sorts of responsibilities/litigations "you told us to leave but we went straight into the fire etc..."

What happens if there is an accident (very likely in times of panic/confusion) and thefore a traffic jam on the roads?

They all become sitting ducks and the death toll will be huge.

you make a vaild point about getting people out early enough but it aint that simple (which you mentioned)

I do this stuff for a living and until (if) something better comes out of this commission I will stand by the current policy.

These plans have saved countless lives before and are proven to work.

There will be anomolies though and perhaps a rethink is required forthise days - got me buggered how they will implement it though.

but i thank you for your opinion.

 

[MrBurns]

If they gave the warning on the basis of the forecast the day before there would be time.

Granted you're not going to get conditions like saturday again in a long time but that was an obvious one if you lived in or near the bush you should go to a shopping center for the day.

Yes I thought of the traffic problem they would just have to deploy police to dea l with it.

No it's not easy but you cant just put it in the too hard basket.

 

[daisy]

Our community spirit is just amazing, so many people doing so much to help the victims of the bush fires. Here we are on the other side of the country and our little town is organising a fundraising BBQ and a local charity has organised a truck to take community donations to VIC. It is so wonderful to see so many people pulling together to help.

That's lovely.
One of the things I had to send up to my friend in Ingham floods was underwear. Lots of clothes and things have been donated by people who weren't flooded out and for which she was grateful but she was having trouble wearing someone else's knickers.
I guess it would be the same for the bushfire victims.

 

[Agentm]

just two words please to remember..

RESPECT the feelings of those out there dealing with the death and destruction of this disaster on their watch as they tirelessly work to save lives and property.

CALM down your emotion on the blame... its not anyones fault, even with 200 "elvis": helicopters and 20 times the manpower, there would be no difference to the outcome.. it was one fire that no one could do anything about..

to all that are suffering loss in this, my heart goes to you..

to the people involved in all facets of this disaster, from the front line to the teams co ordinating this, what they have faced and seen and done has not been acknowledged. i salute you all. we owe them an enormous debt of gratitude it time to stop the blame and support the effort, its not over yet..

 

[MrBurns]

just two words please to remember..

RESPECT the feelings of those out there dealing with the death and destruction of this disaster on their watch as they tirelessly work to save lives and property.

CALM down your emotion on the blame... its not anyones fault, even with 200 "elvis": helicopters and 20 times the manpower, there would be no difference to the outcome.. it was one fire that no one could do anything about..

to all that are suffering loss in this, my heart goes to you..

to the people involved in all facets of this disaster, from the front line to the teams co ordinating this, what they have faced and seen and done has not been acknowledged. i salute you all. we owe them an enormous debt of gratitude it time to stop the blame and support the effort, its not over yet..

Agreed, the people at the front are the salt of the earth God bless them and keep them safe.

 

[korrupt_1]

My worth...

With today's technology, advanced weather forecasting, etc... I'm still shocked and horified at the death toll!!! predicted to be >200 dead and many others with burns and scars that will be with them for life... so sad...

Don't know how to help other than donating all my profits from yesterday's trading... wish I could do more than just give money...

 

[sam76]

They are in desperate need of:

Toiletries - Shampoo / Toothbrushes / Toothpaste / Soap etc
Underwear - New with tags still on

 

[MrBurns]

They are in desperate need of:

Toiletries - Shampoo / Toothbrushes / Toothpaste / Soap etc
Underwear - New with tags still on

I thought they preferred the cash via Salvos ?

 

[sam76]

for people who are far away from the centres, yes cash is the best.

but if you live close and have these spare then please donate them.

sorry should have been more specific in first post.

 

[MrBurns]

for people who are far away from the centres, yes cash is the best.

but if you live close and have these spare then please donate them.

sorry should have been more specific in first post.

Yes you'd have to live right in there otherwise you'd be accused of sightseeing if you tried to get in, I wouldnt even try.

 

[ghotib]

If they gave the warning on the basis of the forecast the day before there would be time.

Granted you're not going to get conditions like saturday again in a long time but that was an obvious one if you lived in or near the bush you should go to a shopping center for the day.

Yes I thought of the traffic problem they would just have to deploy police to dea l with it.

No it's not easy but you cant just put it in the too hard basket.

The Canberra fires were only 6 years ago. The last really big bushfires in the Blue Mountains were 8 years ago, and they came only 7 years after the previous big fire season.

I don't think we can count on very long till the next time.

I also think that we need to be wary of trying to make the same set of rules for all areas. Topography, weather patterns, settlement patterns, road conditions, vegetation, and probably lots of other things all need to be taken into account. And even then, sometimes it comes down to luck.

Ghoti

 

[Prospector]

One thing that has to be sorted out pretty quickly is what exactly went wrong. South Australia is still at risk of a bushfire for at least the next 6 weeks, and if this was on the scale of the Victorian fires, then many more than 200 will perish. And it would threaten Adelaide proper. I dont think that is playing the blame game, but just trying to ensure it will be done better next time.

 

[Calliope]

Germaine Greer gets it right.


Germaine Greer, in The Times of London, sets the record straight on the role of global warming in bushfires:

FIRE is an essential element in the life cycle of Australian forests. Season by season sclerophyll or hard-leaved woodlands build up huge amounts of detritus, which must burn if there is to be new growth.

For 40 or maybe 60 millennia, Aboriginal peoples managed fire proactively, setting alight woodland, scrubland and grassland, so that they could pass freely, so that game was driven towards them, so that fresh green herbage was available. Aboriginal languages have dozens of words for fire. As the Endeavour sailed up the eastern coast, Captain Cook noted that the skies were darkened with smoke by day and lit up by fire at night.

Bushland that is not burned regularly turns into a powder keg, as the fuel load inexorably increases. The cause of these disasters is not global warming; still less is it arson. It is the failure to recognise that fire is an intrinsic feature of eucalypt bushland. It cannot be prevented but it can and should be managed. Unless there is a fundamental change of policy across all levels of government in Australia, there will be more and worse fires and more deaths.

 

[MrBurns]

Just made a donation thru the Salvos, and they asked "and how did you find out about donating through the Salvos." What a stupid question, doing market research at a time like this.

 

[MrBurns]

Germaine Greer gets it right.


Germaine Greer, in The Times of London, sets the record straight on the role of global warming in bushfires:

FIRE is an essential element in the life cycle of Australian forests. Season by season sclerophyll or hard-leaved woodlands build up huge amounts of detritus, which must burn if there is to be new growth.

For 40 or maybe 60 millennia, Aboriginal peoples managed fire proactively, setting alight woodland, scrubland and grassland, so that they could pass freely, so that game was driven towards them, so that fresh green herbage was available. Aboriginal languages have dozens of words for fire. As the Endeavour sailed up the eastern coast, Captain Cook noted that the skies were darkened with smoke by day and lit up by fire at night.

Bushland that is not burned regularly turns into a powder keg, as the fuel load inexorably increases. The cause of these disasters is not global warming; still less is it arson. It is the failure to recognise that fire is an intrinsic feature of eucalypt bushland. It cannot be prevented but it can and should be managed. Unless there is a fundamental change of policy across all levels of government in Australia, there will be more and worse fires and more deaths.

Absolutely correct.